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Soul, or no soul.

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posted on Apr, 26 2016 @ 11:25 PM
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I have had two near death experiences. Nothing that I am about to type is measurable nor scientific, but purely anecdotal and thus should be taken with a grain of salt. Both times I was close to death. I had a clear sense of my mind and awareness being apart from my body.

I have had OBEs. I don't like them, probably because I'm not sufficiently evolved to be able to control the event.

I am personally convinced of the existence of a soul. There have been medical experiments that conclude that the human soul has mass.

We will probably never know -- at least until that point at which we are unable to pass on the knowledge to the living.




posted on Apr, 26 2016 @ 11:29 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

The human soul is no more than a lullaby to those who think human life is worthless.

Your saviour's life was temporary, a vapour trail, now nothing but a memory, but even a millennia hence, it matters to you. It was never his eternal soul that was the way, or else you'd never know about it, a true vapour trail, unable to elicit even a memory. It was his flesh and blood that mattered.

No. Human life would be worthless if there was an eternal soul.



posted on Apr, 26 2016 @ 11:33 PM
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a reply to: Daughter2

Yes i agree, a final destination when you die, is 6ft in the ground or the oven at the crematorium. The theory of an afterlife is comfort to people who NEED some sort of closure after death. I personally cannot comprehend or accept we all end up in either heaven or hell, or as spirits floating around were ever they float around. Some people like the author needs a savior like jesus to spirit them away to their new home, that's comforting for them.



posted on Apr, 26 2016 @ 11:39 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

How do you justify giving value to human life then, if we are just bio-chemical machinery? It would mean that both of our opinions are predetermined by a host of chemical reactions.



posted on Apr, 26 2016 @ 11:42 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope




The human soul is no more than a lullaby to those who think human life is worthless. Your saviour's life was temporary, a vapour trail, now nothing but a memory, but even a millennia hence, it matters to you. It was never his eternal soul that was the way, or else you'd never know about it, a true vapour trail, unable to elicit even a memory. It was his flesh and blood that mattered. No. Human life would be worthless if there was an eternal soul.


The thoughts here are not of any substance. The claim I see you have made is that Human life can have intrinsic value in the absence of a soul. Please I am very interested in hearing you justify this claim.



posted on Apr, 26 2016 @ 11:53 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest


How do you justify giving value to human life then, if we are just bio-chemical machinery? It would mean that both of our opinions are predetermined by a host of chemical reactions.


The mechanistic view of the world, as if it was some contraption, is the corollary of the view that the world and life is designed by some artificer. In other words, the world, human life, are not machinery varying only in complexity from clockwork. We value it as we always have: by subscribing meaning to it, by noticing the beauty in it, instead of taking it all away. You never even touched on the beautiful in your op and chose to reveal only the ugly, something like post-modern art, but I think the necessary consequence of the Christian view of the world and the flesh: ugliness.



posted on Apr, 26 2016 @ 11:58 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I emphasize the ugliness of it, because machinery has no free will. How is it beautiful to admire beauty if you MUST admire beauty as a result of programing. I don't understand how you are satisfied with your position.


edit on 26-4-2016 by BELIEVERpriest because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2016 @ 12:02 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
The doubt in the Eternal soul could be possibly cleared if more perspective was understood about those who too are Eternal and also find deep interest in the Human Soul... Energy.



posted on Apr, 27 2016 @ 12:05 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope




The mechanistic view of the world, as if it was some contraption, is the corollary of the view that the world and life is designed by some artificer.


I don't think that this is true at all. You make a lot of claims but you fail to offer any justification for them.




In other words, the world, human life, are not machinery varying only in complexity from clockwork.


Again I don't see how you can draw a difference between the intrinsic value of a rock and the intrinsic value of a human on a souless view. You may be able to provide some form of extrinsic value to these things but I think you'll be hard pressed to apply a worth that is inherent to humans solely on a naturalistic view of the world.




We value it as we always have: by subscribing meaning to it, by noticing the beauty in it, instead of taking it all away.


Beauty is a subjective concept it doesn't apply any type of intrinsic value to anything but again you could say it extrinsically valuable in that it could be used to produce a desired effect.



posted on Apr, 27 2016 @ 12:05 AM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
Is human consciousness limited to complex brain chemistry?.....Or do humans have an immaterial and immortal soul that lives on after death?
I don't know that there is any way to scientifically prove one claim over another, but each claim has its implication.


If humans have no eternal soul, then the simple fact is that all human life is WORTHLESS. It doesn't matter who you love, who loves you, or how you are remembered in the ages to come. Suffering is nothing more than a random consequence of existence, and there is no right or wrong. Bigotry, hatred, genocide, tyranny, these things are all just abstract expressions of neurochemistry. At some point life will end, and the human body will decay back into the earth, then the sun will explode and it will be over for humanity. What we are today will eventually be a memory that can no longer be called back to cognizance. Sic transit gloria mundi; Thus passes the glory of the world.

On the other hand, if we do have a soul, then Sic transit gloria mundi has a much deeper meaning. Our stay in this world is temporary. What we hold as worldly priorities are mere distractions from our true purpose: To prepare our souls for the Eternity.

So what is Eternity? Is it endless reincarnation from one earthen vessel into the next? In my eyes, this random 'time-loop' scenario would be as useless as not having a soul. Or, is Eternity the point at which we are finally reunified in the fellowship and presence of our Creator? This seems much more fulfilling to me.

Our temporal lives are mere vapor trails that will fade away as quickly as they were initiated. No one knows how long we have to live, so rather than over indulging in entertainment and mundane pass-times....instead, you should be asking your Creator what your path should be.

God forbid you enter Eternity unprepared. There is no guarantee of a second chance.

My Creator and savior is Jesus Christ. I believe He is the only way.

But more importantly, what do you believe? (rhetorical question)


I'm tending to believe God that created this universe lives and breathes here through the creation of soul experiencing gravity and matter. God experiencing matter split God soul in half and became male and female human forms known as Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve created children to carry God's soul in order for God soul to experience matter more fully. More experiences were experienced also knowing good and evil. Every generation that passes grows God's soul extensively in experiencing matter and gravity because now it encompasses time. God's soul encased in matter of the human form travels faster than the speed of light due to experiencing time with continually recycling God's souls into billions of people made of matter. Physical matter is traveling faster than the speed of light. Souls traveling faster than the speed of light carry full memory of every experience but the vessle in the form of a human infant is developmentally unable to express the memory. As the baby grows, the new experiences are focused on and not the old and forgotten if not tapped into.

Jesus Christ is God's soul from Adam and Eve that conceptualized a resting place for God's souls who experienced matter knowing both good and evil, to experience matter that is only good without evil. Since this resting place bears no evil, the soul has to shed evil to enter. Souls cannot cling to evil. They have to let it go. Letting go of evil is not the same as having it erased from soul memory. Erasing the concept of evil does not give the soul the experience of knowing it is existing in only good matter with good experiences. Good can only be realized in knowing or being aware of the opposite. The shedding of evil to enter the Kingdom of Jesus Christ is not even having to resist the temptation of doing evil. Temptation is surpassed and the struggle is over. One is now solid in their choice. The Kingdom of Heaven is like the Garden of Eden and has no struggle and would allow no one in still struggling. It is a Holy place. Jesus Christ resides in this resting place. Since He is there in physical form being matter there, He sent us the Holy Spirit to aid us in our journey here and continue the path in learning how to exist in matter doing good things for others in need and resisting evil thoughts or actions until it's not even a struggle to do so. For most of us it's a struggle, even if we don't engage. The thought to do it is entertaining the idea even if brief. Entering the Kingdom of Heaven is as easy as a camel trying to pass through the eye of a needle.

The big thing for me is forgetting soul memory while in the infant body. But baby's are too cute and young children so precious to eliminate the baby and child experiences and instead come back here recycled into adult bodies.

Unless further info is learned and expands my awareness, the above is what I am thinking and feeling now.



posted on Apr, 27 2016 @ 12:11 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb



I would be interested in hearing what you remember and why you think it is real.


I don't know how past life memories work for other folks, but for me it is just like remembering what I had for lunch today or where I went to school as a child. I would no sooner question these memories of past lives than I would who my best friend was in 3rd grade.

I don't know how to put it into words better than that other than to say that if what I remember of my life 20 years ago happened then so did my past lives. I don't question it anymore than I would any other memories I have.

It is simply my past reality albeit older than memories I have from this current life.



posted on Apr, 27 2016 @ 12:12 AM
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a reply to: WhiteWingedMonolith

So many odd theological positions I wouldnt even know where to begin.



posted on Apr, 27 2016 @ 12:21 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

If you've never questioned them, and you know that logically it couldn't have happened in this life why make the leap to assume they are real past events rather than look for some alternative explanation before making that leap?



posted on Apr, 27 2016 @ 12:36 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

When I was a child, I remember having this sudden occurrence of what I just knew had to be a memory, precipitate out of nowhere. In this "memory", my grandmother was sitting in my living room while I was watching TV, and suddenly she went into convulsions and became possessed. Then all kinds of weird stuff happened.

Eventually I realized that it was a recurring nightmare that my subconscious mind forcefully integrated into my conscious memory bank. Then it didn't have that "memory feel" to it anymore. But the whole ordeal went on for weeks.

For that exact reason, I never believed in the past lives theory, though I can understand why others would. I believe demons can incept false memories into our minds.
edit on 27-4-2016 by BELIEVERpriest because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2016 @ 01:07 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

That is an interesting perspective. I mean its just one of those things that is hard to evaluate. Now if we had examples of people naming places and events that were later found to be true via archaeology that would be interesting especially if it was vast number but I can't seem to find any extremely convincing studies on the subject.



posted on Apr, 27 2016 @ 01:17 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Yeah, I get weird parasomnia stuff happen to me every now and then, I've even left my body or "stretched out of body" only to find myself sleeping in bed. Its not like I try to do this stuff, it just happens sometimes. That to me is a personal experience that convinces me that I am a soul.

But the point is, even if people had mass occurrences of historically accurate past life memories, those memories could just as easily be incepted memories from outside forces.

I mean its even possible that all of my out of body memories are falsely incepted memories. Kinda like Total Recall. All we would be able to do is make assumptions about said evaluations.



posted on Apr, 27 2016 @ 01:51 AM
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Soul, even in art you find the existence of soul, I dont believe it is purely based on chemical responses from the brain.
Also, findind people from past lives, will change your perspectives more than you think.



posted on Apr, 27 2016 @ 03:25 AM
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originally posted by: BestinShow
a reply to: Daughter2

I also think there are second chances because reincarnation makes sense to me.

Makes sense, or satisfies your needs..? Big difference...

Not attacking you, or at least not trying to be a d!ck, but rather trying to push a conversation that should occur more often, as the topic deserves the attention: can humans separate critical thinking from belief?

I don't think so, but you may prove otherwise...



Yes.... but wouldn't the resurrection be that "second chance"?

How can reincarnation even make any sense? Lets take a quick look:

Example: A little boy remembers being an Apostle of Jesus Christ, a monk from the 13th century, King Richard of England so if this is true...... this little boy's soul (spirit) what some people call an "old soul" . ONE spirit that has inhabited 4 seperate bodies through time......so when the resurrection comes one soul rises but for which person? You see here is but one soul involved.... so which body will it choose and is that fair to those that do not get chosen?

Reincarnation makes no sense.



posted on Apr, 27 2016 @ 03:25 AM
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edit on 27-4-2016 by DeathSlayer because: accidentally was posted twice.........



posted on Apr, 27 2016 @ 05:24 AM
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I believe our minds are what give us consciousnesses through a process of complex chemical reactions in our brains. When we die our minds quit working the end.

I've reached this conclusion from having paranoid schizophrenia. Every night I take chemicals in the form of a pill that keeps my mind and consciousnesses loosing touch with reality. Because of this I've come to my own conclusions on what the mind is capable of. I didn't always had schizophrenia. I was normal until age 17 when the illness struck. I was extremely sick for 3 years after I came down with it. It's been 15 years and to a degree I've recovered from it. I've been to the furthest reaches of insanity and back. One thing I came away from it all with is a better understanding of my psyche. Everything we perceive think and emotionally feel is nothing more then a chemical reaction and can be altered through medications or illegal drugs. I've experienced it first hand.

I think the reason people believe in a soul is they don't want to except the fact when they die it's the end.
edit on 27-4-2016 by wantsome because: (no reason given)




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