Islamist Turkey seizes ALL Christian churches in city and declares them 'state property'

originally posted by: St Udio
Putin has already threatened to retake Constantinople and make it Christian again... IF the Turks under Erdogan continue to support IS/ISIS (Islamic Jihadist terrorists)

Russia can temporarily save-the-world from the end-times Beast Empire by making today's Istanbul (Constantinople) a Christian enclave once again in response to this campaign by the antichrist's meat puppet Recep Tayyip Erdogan

The Arabs are proving what they really want by including the demand that Israel give up the Golan Heights in the Syrian peace deal. Israels leader flew to Russia and told them that it will never happen and I am sure Putin agrees that it should not be in the deal either.

All the Muslim nations had an emergency meeting today in response to what they call a provocative statement made by Israel. That the Golan Heights will always stay in Israeli control. Turkey, Saudi Arabia plus Iran now have something they can unite behind. Turkey, the anti-christ HQ will now push and push for more war.

a reply to: the2ofusr1
QUOTE: "He does make it clear that it was all the churches that were seized for "restoration" purposes". Ha Ha Ha!!! The only "restoration" will be to convert the churches into mosques. Same that was done to the famous St Sofia church in Istanbul, which is now a museum. Across all turkey over many many years, christian buildings have been "converted or destroyed" especially in eastern turkey out near the armenian border. Where i live in Indonesia christians cannot build new churches as it will offend muslims, what bull#.

a reply to: visitedbythem

"Maybe the christians there should leave"

I am sure they would like to.What I have been hearing is that they are not allowed to leave. That
does make a big difference.

a reply to: grey580 QUOTE: " Looks like they want to take that property and build luxury condo's".

Sorry guy but your on the wrong BUS. In the SE area of turkey where all this fuss is about, the locals are poor, uneducated, unemployed and still living in the time machine of poverty. SOOOO, sorry but no condo's.....

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: visitedbythem

"Maybe the christians there should leave"

I am sure they would like to.What I have been hearing is that they are not allowed to leave. That
does make a big difference.

I hope thats not the case. My Great grandmother took her two small sons ( 10 and 7)and walked across the continent to the Cyprus seaport in Greece ,and we got the heck out of there

Its just sensationalism to whip people into a frensy... ive got quite a few friends I speak to from all over the world many in arab and islamic majority countries aside from all over asia, africa, india including some in n. korea... there is a desire to reach out and cross bridges for understanding and cultural exchange beyond the political and radical hardliner extremist just like we have here in the US and its great to share a moment and talk with them, although it can turn into a 12 hour affair answering all the messages in a single day sometimes over 45 separate people an hour...

But they are aware of the propaganda and slant and bias just as much as we are, and know that it isnt americans or europeans per se causing all te turmoil but those in power keeping it circulating, they all have a desire in expressing themselves through art and various lifestyles and how cultural exchange and expression of that erodes borders in friendship.

Of course dialog with some very politically high up can seem a bit touchy as there are different social and cultural norms for each like not aiming your feet at people bow depth or the ok hand gesture being rude in some like the middle finger here... but one government official wanted a meeting and opened up a group chat wouldnt speak to me directly but no matter, and I spoke to him about his concerns and explained a very important thing that was going un realized in trade, tarrif is a shared word and sounds the same, but in the language tariff in their trade meant haggling like oh no you really dont want this its not worth what is being asked for it as a polite courtesy to give you a better price or haggle it to where in the end they say ok free and become friends as thats a cultural norm to establish good relations, and I explained that tarrif in englis when heard conveys a sense of taxes and not that social courtesy of haggling... and it was a real head slapper to whatever position the man held, but it opened the door so that there was an understanding of what taxes were as called a tarrif between trade goods and not the polite social gesture common to trading.

So ignorance of such things has been a barrier to our mutual understandings, I thought about going through the process of becoming a registered diplomat instead of being a freelance one, but its sort of an ardious process and something im sort of unofficially already doing independently just being friendly to all people and bridging the gaps and stereotypes.

But there has been a lot of miscommunications being cleared up from such conversations and garnering respect for cultural exchanges... the sensationalist headlines of course are looking for a knee jerk reaction, but why not give it a chance to see if there is a respectful cultural ambivelence that these churches are being placed on the same as the mosques so that they may recieve protections and renovations just the same being state funded?

There is that possibility and from all communication Ive had countless hours of because time zones sleep one side of the planet awake another pulling 24 hours plus can easily happen but why not give the benefit of the doubt? Like how the GOP 4 years ago was hell bent on jumping into Iran if they got someone into office to green light it um bad idea, because well Iran hasnt been involved in war in a very long time, plus they full on had and have nukes... so if the GOP had their way? Instead of using the diplomacy which seemed to have gone the way of the dodo since the Reagan admistration wed have been full blown on into world war 3 with nuclear strikes and fall out by now...

people are so quick to pick up lines and tow them out of ignorance and hate taught without really knowing the situation in this thing called blind patriotism no one chose who or where they were born too nor the color of their skins, sex etc. and well dragging those belief lines yanked on instead of reaching some understanding can come with some dire consequences... of course the first few years of the Obama adminstration I couldnt tell the difference between his and Bushes from extending the same tax breaks strengthening the NSA and spying etc. but, fortunately hey diplomacy was rediscovered and serious talks got back underway trying to talk and relax the divide.

Bush was trying to reignite the cold war by stopping the nuclear disarmament deal making us 1000s of war heads short behind Russia putting a lot of tension on our ties with them, fortunately Obama hopped back on it and got back up to speed and now we have restrengthened ties with Russia and China as well as a side effect wich have been putting pressure on N Korea to relax on the human rights violations, of course N Korea wants to rejoin with the south these days as family, but see foreign involvement hampering that process... there is a desire for cultural revolution taking place all over the world in the name of peace, but unless you really get into the trenches and talk to people, youre not going to see it, just read inflamatory headlines and react keeping the whole thing spinning.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

So Erdogan is good guy? He hasn't led Turkey to be one of the worst freedom of journalism countries in the world jailing anyone who disagrees with him? There hasn't been a trend to clamp down on Kurdish nightclubs, or he hasn't taken these churches? He didn't try and fail to change the constituition to give him more executive powers? Yeah we as allies should be a little outraged by this behaviour.

a reply to: luthier

Does he not have a public he must bend to or else be dethroned from his position of power? If he is insistent on trying to be god over the people he is serving and is self serving instead like so many others corrupted by power instead of seeing such a position as even more resposibility to people? Then its obvious he needs to be ousted, of course wanting to maintain that position a leader will bend to the will of the people supple like a reed or snap and need carrying off so one that does represent the people can be in the place instead.

There is a possibility for learning and growth no matter how old one is, unless cognitive dissonace and an unwillingness to evolve to a higher standard that such a position calls for is ignored... just like the people being ignored, so to will whatever king or lordship one wants to setup for themself eventually fall, no matter how many bootlickers vying for the same power will also fall... the evidence of such can be seen in ancient greece, from Ceasar to Caligula... of course those with money and power often try to rise to such a position and once there start trying to control and hammer out the world and its people in their image instead of go in the direction that the people that actually make up the location want it to be or grow into.

This is why many of the same issues facing humanity are 1000s of years old making the fights then really no different than now, except there are many many more people tired of such nonsense from so called 1st world and even the 3rd... 1st world is becoming 3rd world in such a desire to control and do the same in those countries, and of course cheaper labor, corruption of people seeking such seats and vast untapped resources keep it all in a perpetual motion.

Knowing the world operates thusly? Where does the real power lay and have always lain? Right in the hands of the very people and indominable human spirit that is the same in each and every person.

Time may be linear moving forward scientifically, but the way human behavior operates? How can that be proven, when so many are dragging past baggage and in most every case? Baggage not even ones own...

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

It's not that I disagree with you as whole. It's that you are not regarding the power of subversive and psychological warfare. He has controlled the press to the point where they are listed as one of the worst countries in the world in that regard. Worse than Russia. Propaganda has been studied and perfected for centuries. Including the narrative you are giving.

When a president like Erdogan creates a fake bubble economy the people seem very happy. When this crashes or corrects itself there will be less acceptance. The level of short term loans vs the gdp is rediculous. So much so they had to correct it but they did so only by name. 90 Percent of the loans are still only 1-10 days passed the short term loan limit. Basically take loan after loan to pay for interest.

It's definitely complex. But this guy IMO is actually dangerous. So are many leaders including some of the ones in my country.

a reply to: luthier

Then it is obviously your opinion to remove him from that position with some sort of force... is that also the opinion of the majority of the people he sees over? If not then the people are obviously content being under that authority. Of course authority is someting given like here wear this hat or this star that conveys that position and uphold what is expected of that position until such time it comes to relinqush that authority people haven given you... if there is resistence to do so and the tyranny only grows worse than the effort to remove him causes then there can obviously be a window of opportunity for change... either from him in that position of power or at the hands of the people... of course what I am speaking is ethics.

Looking at Syria what started as a protest in a park was met with violence, and how many lives have been lost in the vying of power and struggle for change vs. if diplomacy sanctions etc were applied for that change?

A few years ago the US was at a boiling point and protesters were becoming more and more increasingly violent...I tried to make it clear as possible, the US would not stand for such violent over throw, there are contencencies in place and well those in authority would have no issue flexing that muscle to maintain the status quo in quelling such a thing... that it is better to use the system to change the system and try to oust corruption than be in civil war and under martial law at the cost of a lot of lives... fortunately the message got heard and spread in the channels it needed too. Many people are not aware that we were at such a boiling point of extremism from both sides at the time, and various factions were standing wit a lit match waiting for go from someone somewhere...

Fortunately the little bit of influence I held and the reasoning I put forth helped move things in a more progressive manner to actually work towards a more diplomatic peaceful solution... I suppose at this point its fair to say I was a member of anonymous without really knowing I was... many think its just some hacker group but its multinational all walks of life and millions of people so hey you may be a member yourself or followed in some fashion and not even know it if you speak or look to create solutions instead of perpetuate the senseless harm that goes on by governments and people in positions of power like we are discussing here. I have had no meetings or contacts or communication with their business or operations... but I do respect the greater good they are working to bring about, it sort of runs parallel to what I was already speaking about and still do anyway... its obvious im not paranoid about using freedom of speech or loss of my life or slander on the account of anything I say as the message is essentially one of world peace without war and blood shed of any sort. Not after greed or positions of power or any of that business...

While hearing there is a great lack of freedom of speech due to this flexing you mention? The choice not to speak freely is obviously being voluntarily abided by... if the people want to speak freely then whats keeping them from doing so? They are not children even though some may have children... because of a threat or percieved threat? Which is worse speaking freely enmass against such tranny saying nope youre a child even when youre an adult and what you say is invalid... individual choice to obey obviously as if one were a child, and if one fears for ones life then by all means obey... I obviously do not fear it so I continue to use it as an adult anyones opinion on how I use it is their judgement not mine, of course the message being peaceful in nature but contrary to the control that hurts citizens of all countries worldwide what exactly can they do except try to flex some control and hope it doesnt turn into some huge backlash?

While I would hope it wouldnt and I would hope the indominable human spirit is picked up and continued to be carried forth without such fear, its not something Id expect. As its not something I expected when I first stepped down as a moderator of a site because my views may not have reflected the views of the owners to say what I had to say out of respect to them... see I had a position of power, and my voice carried a ton of influence and if I said what ever i wanted like it was my website? Then id be no different than the person banning freedom of speech in Turkey that is the topic of our discussion... it was the responsible ting to do... and yes of course I got thrown under the proverbial bus but the message of what I had to say was important to so very many people in the industry not wanting to be sold out to corporate interests, many did of course and as its said we all ave our crosses to bear for our choices.

Anyway, thats my assessment and a bit of personal background as to why I see it as such... doesnt matter the position one holds responsibility to do the responsible thing to those allowing that position to begin with. King, queen, or even if one think themself a god, same exact responsibility to that position wether one accepts it or not.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

No. I don't think a lot of people call him that.
I don't think many leaders are called that.

What a joy isn't it? Having to respond to someone twisting the point you're making so they can argue their straw man, something you never said, implied or argued for. So you have to address that again before they are willing to consider what you said initially (or was pointing towards). At least you managed to keep it short, hat's off to you.

Be Honest in All Things

“We wish to conduct ourselves honestly in all things.”—HEBREWS 13:18.
...
Our first challenge is to learn to be honest with ourselves. It is very easy for us as imperfect humans to succumb to self-deception. For instance, Jesus told the Christians in Laodicea that they had fooled themselves into thinking that they were rich when, in fact, they were “poor and blind and naked” spiritually—a truly pitiable state. (Revelation 3:17) Their self-deception only made their situation more dangerous.

You may recall, too, that the disciple James warned: “If any man thinks he is a worshipper of God but does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he is deceiving his own heart, and his worship is futile.” (James 1:26)
...
Remember that Paul said: “We wish to conduct ourselves honestly.” We cannot be perfect now, but we sincerely desire and earnestly seek to be honest.

Romans 1:20,21 (NW):

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: 21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: 25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

edit on 29-4-2016 by whereislogic because: addition