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Luicfer and Satan

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posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 03:59 PM
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What, if any, are the diffrences between Lucifer and Satan?




posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 04:08 PM
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Lucifer was the so called angel of god that turned against him by being jealous of his power (According to the bible). Satan is one of four powerful demons?

To be honest im not fully sure, this is simply my two cents.

What do you reckon to satan actually being god? the world is naturally evil.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 04:13 PM
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Lucifer, Satan, Old Scratch, the Devil, etc.

All the same cat...

The name Lucifer was the angelic name he had before his fall from grace. Over time, he's been called by many names by different sects, since the fall.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 06:53 PM
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Lucifer is mentioned one time in the bible, in Isaiah 14:12. It was not in reference to Satan, but to Tiglath-pileser III, King of Babylon.

Lucifer is the term the early Romans used for the planet Venus.
It came into the bible through a translation error. The original Hebrew term "HeYLeL BeN-ShaCHaR" that ment bright son of the morning/dawn was translated as
Phosphorus,The then current Greek Term for Venus, and then into Lucifer, the term used by the Romans for Venus. Now we are stuck with it, and many christians belive it refers to an archangel that fell from hevean. If you dont belive me, break out your good book, and start reading from Isaiah 14:1.



[edit on 13-1-2005 by wiggy]



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 07:09 PM
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The title of Satan (Hebrew for the Accuser), was held by the Cheif of Scribes in the Jewish Church, his role was much the same as todays 'Devils Advocate' in the Catholic Church tests the suitability of candidates to high office.

Satan (accuser) and devil (gk. meaning aggressor) are not the same as the fallen one.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 07:26 PM
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The name Lucifer was the angelic name he had before his fall from grace. Over time, he's been called by many names by different sects, since the fall.


Wasn't Satan, Michael the Archangel ? the outcast from heaven?



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 07:41 PM
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Oh, brother.

Read, people, read. Read the Bible. When reading look for a witness (the same concept somewhere else in the Bible).



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by spliff4020




The name Lucifer was the angelic name he had before his fall from grace. Over time, he's been called by many names by different sects, since the fall.


Wasn't Satan, Michael the Archangel ? the outcast from heaven?


Read Revelations chapter twelve, verse seven. Micheal, and his angels cast out the dragon (satan) and his angels.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Oh, brother.

Read, people, read. Read the Bible. When reading look for a witness (the same concept somewhere else in the Bible).


What are you referring to? him mistaking Micheal for Satan? If so, give him a place to start, not just criticism.


[edit on 13-1-2005 by wiggy]



posted on Jan, 14 2005 @ 12:06 AM
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yeah,

Lucifer and satan are the same "guy". I am a christian and when refering to the devil i use either of the names. Thats what all the different denominations do to. But lucifer is the angelic name and satan was given or obtained after the fall.

hope this helps.
DigitalGrl



posted on Jan, 14 2005 @ 12:29 AM
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Satin is the Devil. The Devil is Lucifer. Lucifer is Satin. Does that clear it up for you?



posted on Jan, 14 2005 @ 01:10 AM
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Lucifer=Satan=Devil etc just to state the obvious like most here that have a head on their shoulders.Cheers your a breath of fresh air
I`m still whirling from other threads that i`ve tried explaining this,because there are people that actually believe that Lucifer=Christ
What a sick world this is,and i`m sure its gonna get a lot worse



posted on Jan, 14 2005 @ 01:43 AM
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Do some reading...

here
and here



posted on Jan, 14 2005 @ 01:59 AM
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As a Christian just going from the Bible, this is a gray area. As already mentioned there is only one reference to Lucifer in the Bible which can be translated to refer to the fall of a King, I believe it is the King of Babylon. There is also a brief mention of Lilth in the Bible as well, but this is also often translated to mean an Owl. Satan is more often mentioned but is translated to simply mean advisory.

If you read outside the Bible, you start to get the impression that they are two different things. They’re religions are defiantly different. They are different classes of angle according to the Cabalists. According to some Pseudopigraphical writings, they are separate entities as well.

One quote that I recall from somewhere stated that Lucifer fell because he got a Satanalli spirit, or an adversarial attitude toward God. According to the Acts of Pilot, the book of Nicodeamis (sp) They are not only different, but so is death. Here is some information that I have seen not only on some occult sites, but I believe it also is part of the Cabalist Religion:


originally from www.mysticwicks.com...
The Lucifer Principle

Lucifer's number is nine, nine being the number of pride as any number nine is multiplied into returns to itself. (Example: 9x5=45 - 4+5=9) Lucifer also being known as the "Angel of pride". This represents being proud of all things we do!

Lucifer's color is blue, blue being the color of the sky and water representing that Lucifer is all around and within us. That Lucifer is the prime element/energy that motivates and cultivates our world. Other colors Lucifer is associated with are white and silver, so accordingly altar pentagrams must be surrounded by blue with a silver/white pentagram with a black border (Shown on page ).

Lucifer's element is air, air being that which allows us to speak his words of truth as his manifestation on Earth.

Lucifer's direction is the east, east being where a lot of the sacred wisdom and the great wars will come from. It was once stated to me by a Germanic Luciferian that "a wise Magickian from Persia an Arab will come and bring with him the aeon of Lucifer" or in lay-mans terms the Antichrist.

Lucifer's human element is wisdom or applied knowledge, with time, study and practice it is believed that man can attain the Lucifer state, this only through applied knowledge or wisdom.

Lucifer's altar element is incense, incense being a representation of air, known to Luciferians as "sweet air".

Lucifer's planetary element is Venus, Lucifer being known as the morning star or first star of morning, otherwise known as Venus. Venus, known as the "Planet of love" represents the beauty of Lux Ferre (Latin for light bearer/bringer or Lucifer).

Lucifer's consort/Female aspect is Lilith, Lilith being the first wife of Adam before becoming the queen of the damned. It is said Lilith comes from the mud and the dust and is queen of the Succubi/Luciferic Witch. When Lucifer and Lilith mate they equal the androgynous being known as "Baphomet" or the "Goat of Mendes" also called "God of the Witches". Liliths number is two, also known as the number of the eternal female. Lilith is considered an equal to Lucifer to some, and the feminine aspect of Lucifer himself to others.

Lucifer's highest manifestation is through understanding of oneself, this being the goal of the Magickian/Luciferian to begin with, being as Lucifer himself, total awakening of the human god-form Lucifer. Without knowing the self one cannot hope to achieve any real understanding of anything else. Applied knowledge in action is a prime example of Lucifer's manifestation!

The Satan Principle

Satan's number is six, six being the number of "the beast" representing mans carnal nature being set free. Releasing the wolf within if you want to call it so. Sin no longer exists, nothing is sinful but to deny yourself of pleasure in your Utopia.

Satan's color is red, red being the color of emotion, Satan being the guardian of lust, anger, happiness, sadness etc…being released.

Satan's element is fire, fire being an appropriate representation of emotional outburst or ritual. Destruction and lust are the two prime elements of fire and Satan.

Satan's direction is south, south representing the dissension from God-hood to the ascension to God-hood. Creation of ones Utopia.

Satan's human element is anger, lust and primal emotion, representing the release of emotion through sex or anger and crushing of ones enemies.

Satan's altar element are the candles, Candles representing holding the flame of Satan or emotion, primal man.

Satan's planetary aspect is Mars, Mars being the planet that represents justice. Due to the biblical story of Satan punishing the sinners Satan was at times called the "Avenging Angel" or "Angel of Justice".

Satan's highest manifestation is through (wo)mans full release of the carnal will, self explanatory.


You can find the above listed in other places as well as the link I provided. Like I said I believe that this originally came from a book used in Cabala, but I can no longer find the source information. In the Cabalist writing it went over each rank of angle/demon, their leader and specifics, like above, for each rank.

Satanalli was one rank, and was lead by Satan.



posted on Jan, 14 2005 @ 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by gps777
Lucifer=Satan=Devil etc just to state the obvious like most here that have a head on their shoulders.Cheers your a breath of fresh air
I`m still whirling from other threads that i`ve tried explaining this,because there are people that actually believe that Lucifer=Christ
What a sick world this is,and i`m sure its gonna get a lot worse


Firstly GPS I am not following you


I think the reference to Lucifer = Christ is often used in the Lucifer isn't Satan argument because of the reference to the morning star being attributed to not only Christ.

More of a case if Lucifer is Satan due to description so if JC. I don't think they actually believe it but use the analogy as an example to show the flaw.

I believe Lucifer was a translation error, but am not sure as to the accuracy of the claim.

The application of the name to Satan has existed since the third century A.D., and is based on the supposition that Luke 10:18 is an explanation of Isaiah 14:12, which many christian scholars and authorities believe is not true. "Lucifer," the light-bringer, is the Latin equivalent of the Greek word "Phosphoros," which is used as a title of Christ and corresponds to the name "radiant and brilliant Morning Star" in Rev. 22:16, a name Jesus called Himself. This passage here in Isaiah 14:13 clearly applies to the king of Babylon"



posted on Jan, 14 2005 @ 08:14 AM
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...defcon5 ...quite interesting what you posted ,BUT:

"9x5=45 - 4+5=9" the number of Lucifer (bad proof!)

,but let's take as example 4x6=24 - 2+4=6 ...ok that's 6...Satan

7x3=21 - 2+1=3 ...ok 3 ...God

12x4 =48 - 4+8=12 ....12 apostels

...hm... is this a proof that Lucifer is the angel of pride ...or for others...?

..get back to the number thing...6x12=72 - 7+2=9

...that's easy mathematic...no proof or whatever....

...but the rest is good

....next time try to think rational and overwork such texts...so that you can show those" ignorants"(no bad meaning) how thing are going...

...THE BIBLE IS TRUELY THE BOOK OF BOOKS...maybe read it before you talk about it



posted on Jan, 14 2005 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by joejoe
...defcon5 ...quite interesting what you posted ,BUT:

"9x5=45 - 4+5=9" the number of Lucifer (bad proof!)

,but let's take as example 4x6=24 - 2+4=6 ...ok that's 6...Satan

7x3=21 - 2+1=3 ...ok 3 ...God

12x4 =48 - 4+8=12 ....12 apostels

...hm... is this a proof that Lucifer is the angel of pride ...or for others...?

..get back to the number thing...6x12=72 - 7+2=9

...that's easy mathematic...no proof or whatever....

...but the rest is good

....next time try to think rational and overwork such texts...so that you can show those" ignorants"(no bad meaning) how thing are going...

...THE BIBLE IS TRUELY THE BOOK OF BOOKS...maybe read it before you talk about it


How about you read the bible? I will post my earlier post again, and hope that you will look it up in YOUR bible, I doubt there is any differince between it and MY bible (KJV 1611).


Lucifer is mentioned one time in the bible, in Isaiah 14:12. It was not in reference to Satan, but to Tiglath-pileser III, King of Babylon.

Lucifer is the term the early Romans used for the planet Venus.
It came into the bible through a translation error. The original Hebrew term "HeYLeL BeN-ShaCHaR" that ment bright son of the morning/dawn was translated as
Phosphorus,The then current Greek Term for Venus, and then into Lucifer, the term used by the Romans for Venus. Now we are stuck with it, and many christians belive it refers to an archangel that fell from hevean. If you dont belive me, break out your good book, and start reading from Isaiah 14:1.



posted on Jan, 14 2005 @ 12:40 PM
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the only way to understand the differences, using the bible, is to read it in its orginal language (Hebrew and Greek)...?

Any translation is bound to subjective representation...



posted on Jan, 14 2005 @ 12:52 PM
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The subject has been covered extensively here on ATS.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You can probably find more if you use the Search function.


Lucifer is most definitely not Satan. Use Google and you will find plenty of evidence to show how this misunderstanding came about.
Those who state that Lucifer is Satan are merely regurgitating an old literary mistake that has come to be accepted as truth over a long period of time. This doesn't make the mistake any more valid now though, than the day that it was made.
Some people will cling onto everything that they have been taught. Even when that teaching can easily be proven wrong.



posted on Jan, 14 2005 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by mwen
the only way to understand the differences, using the bible, is to read it in its orginal language (Hebrew and Greek)...?

Any translation is bound to subjective representation...


exaclty. I can post it in hebrew greek transation if anyone can read it.




Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

bsnt-mvt hmlk `xz hyh hms` hzh.




Isa 14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

`l-tsmxy plst klk ky nsbr sb+ mkk ky-msrs nxs y&` &pj vpryv srp mjvpp.





Isa 14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

vrjv bkvry dlym v`byvnym lb+x yrb&v vhmty brjb srsk vs`rytk yhrg.





Isa 14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

hylyly sjr zjqy-jyr nmvg plst klk ky m&pvn jsn b` v`yn bvdd bmvjdyv.





Isa 14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

vmh-yjnh ml`ky-gvy ky yhvh y$d &yvn vbh yx$v jnyy jmv.




Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

vlqxvm jmym vhby`vm `l-mqvmm vhtnxlvm byt-ysr`l jl `dmt yhvh ljbdym vlspxvt vhyv sbym lsbyhm vrdv bngsyhm.




Isa 14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

vhyh byvm hnyx yhvh lk mj&bk vmrgzk vmn-hjbdh hqsh `sr jbd- bk.




Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

vns`t hmsl hzh jl-mlk bbl v`mrt `yk sbt ngs sbth mdhbh.




Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

sbr yhvh m+h rsjym sb+ mslym.



This is wescot-hort hebrew translation, as I can not post the original, it just comes out random charactors.




[edit on 14-1-2005 by wiggy]



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