The emasculation of the modern male

a reply to: onequestion

For a lot of people, the lines are blurred. They have always been blurred. The two most culturally significant men in music (in my opinion and for my generation) recently died. Neither was dominantly masculine or feminine. Those labels are too small for real people. Or at least, really interesting people.

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
In the name of equality we have levelled the sexes, and repressed the instincts. This has occurred not only to masculinity, but femininity as well.

I agree with you totally that there is an effort to blurr the lines.

I don't know why.

Yea you do!

You are not conforming? Didn't you mention social engineering earlier?

originally posted by: onequestion
So I've been wondering lately about culture and masculibity. Recently in another thread on suicide a member brought up the emasculation of what I can only call manliness in modern culture and I'm wondering... Is stopping people from getting into fist fights really good for us?

I know this isn't PC and it may sound crazy at first but let's take a deeper look.

There is something to he said in my experience about a man whose willing to honestly stand in front of you during a disagreement and choose to fight you one on one. I have respect for someone who will do that. I'm not talking cheap shots I'm not talking gang wars.

I think its part of being a man to get this violent aggression out of your system especially in your early 20's and its my belief that when we try to get that out of our culture we are creating even bigger problems.

Let's take for instance a community of poor people. Kids are taught violence is wrong their entire life but in these same communities we have the biggest problems of violence. It is my belief that by surpressing these NATURAL instincts in young men we are seeing an upswing in gang activity and violent outburst with guns.

I think not allowing young boys and men the freedom to scrap is having a detrimental effect on Americas youth.

Obviously i am not advocating violent but I would like to start a discussion on this topic. I can he swayed in either direction.

So let's start here and see how the conversation evolves. I may let the thread run a little.

Men have definitely been emasculated. You see the celebration of weenie effeminate men in fashion and entertainment. Feminism demands that men and women are equal when it is clear we are not (Physically).

Regarding your theory about violence in poor communities, I think it is because there is an absence of men. There are no male role models around to teach these young men how to be men. They are being raised by women by in large.

I think it's wrong to try and lay this on feminism.

My Mrs isn't ever one to bottle things up, nor is my mum. Cross them and you always know about it there and then.

I think it's more to do with general social conditioning and people's economic slavery.

If Bob in the office is a bit of a twat and keeps shirking, laying an unfair burden on Bill, maybe taking credit for Bill's work too, what usually happens?
Bill bites his tongue, spends his days silently resentful and drinks a bottle of shiraz every night to numb the pain of his rubbish existence.

If Bill hadn't been so pathologically frightened of conflict through his experience in his formative years, he may have told Bob to pull his finger out and pull his weight in the first place.

Bob may not have liked hearing it, but the office would be a more efficient one after and Bill would probably feel a bit better at not being taken advantage of.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Struggling with conflict isn't just a male thing either, we females struggle with this too and how we are perceived especially in the workplace if we aren't nice and demure all the time. If we speak up, we're bitches. Society is hard for everyone.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: SprocketUK

Struggling with conflict isn't just a male thing either, we females struggle with this too and how we are perceived especially in the workplace if we aren't nice and demure all the time. If we speak up, we're bitches. Society is hard for everyone.

You are dead right and I know loads of women who go through life like Bill, keeping their gobs shut and miserable because of it.

Real freedom is having the courage to do what you need to and not letting the possible ramifications put you off. As I alluded to earlier, it's easy to be trapped into inaction because you are worried about losing your "stuff"

a reply to: SprocketUK

A PERSON has to find that line to walk. The pressure is to survive, the desire is to feel comfortable and happy while doing so. If other people or constructs make that especially challenging it's because an individual has given them too much power in their own mind. If there's laws or systems that make that challenging or impossible then those should be smashed. There's a universe of difference between the two. I suspect you know all this though

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: SprocketUK

A PERSON has to find that line to walk. The pressure is to survive, the desire is to feel comfortable and happy while doing so. If other people or constructs make that especially challenging it's because an individual has given them too much power in their own mind. If there's laws or systems that make that challenging or impossible then those should be smashed. There's a universe of difference between the two. I suspect you know all this though

You said it better than I could have

a reply to: onequestion

The suicide rates, population decline, increase in mass shootings, more subtle aggressiveness such as in treating your employees like crap, in business.

Granted these are issues that disproportionately effect men. Although there isn't any data that suggests these are caused by suppressed instincts. Psychological issues stemming from suppressed instincts? There maybe something valid there. Actually there is;Psychological reppression But,you are advocating that the use of force be the best way to solve these issues and minor disputes between males...? Instead of further investments in mental health.

I get that this ideal may have worked for you and many others,however I can totally see people going overboard with this and people might advocate for legal murder. People today advocate for the use of state violence and dehumanize entire populations of nation-states or organizations all the time. It's a valid slippery slope that should be considered.

In the short term,there is some merit to what your saying. Physical disputes are essentially mostly competition between males and this is seen in our brethren in the animal kingdom. These competitions are not always physical disputes,take the peacock for example. Peacocks compete with other males for the females choice in mating by flashing their feathers and making loud calls. I bring this up because I find most disputes between males revolve around human mating,not always but as were no different than animals.

Though animals we may be,I hope to see humanity evolve behind the necessity of being a slave to it's base instincts.
Simply put the competitive method for resolving disputes,expressing aggression and relieving stress doesn't have to revolve around physical violence.

Years ago,I was one of these women who swore there wasn't a man breathing
on this planet man enough to dominate me.I was proven wrong and have been
married for a long time since.Nature and instinct will always find a way.

a reply to: onequestion
As you probably know, this is one of the main reasons I love, support, and practice MMA (novice)

It's a very effective tool for keeping our primal instincts alive.

I get the same fulfillment of self expression and healthy aggression from skateboarding, snowboarding, and surfing too.

Things like that are so cleansing for the soul and definitely make me feel like a beast.

I think its important for all men. I couldn't imagine living without some kind of passion that gets the heart pumping and adrenal glands going.

As per the OP, its harder to find that for ourselves these days and only getting worse as safe and PC culture take over.

a reply to: onequestion

Some of this content 1 is about to share may be extreme depending on how you view things...

When considering male and female and factoring them in human and other Animalia kingdom Creations, it seems the masculinity associated with males may be associated with the Ancestors of ancient men and their activities. And these activities being then genetically transmitted into the genes of the descendants. And certain activities throughout time either increase or weaken the original preset genes patterns…

So many of the male side of the human genetics of the ancient past may have been associated with hunting for their families – protecting their families – Teaching their families.
These activities all have potential to increase testosterone - stamina – strength and tactical thinking.

Now jump through time to today and the many activities of the past have changed and so genetically some of the activities that may have kept human men more masculine are less active.
For example now a man just has to get up go to work instead of hunt spending approx. 10+ hours getting up to go to work and returning home.
Depending on his job he may experience minimal over activity of his body during work hours and so limiting any testosterone increase throughout his daily life (unless he works out / weight trains - exercises – eats well – has a healthy active sex life and also avoids certain plastic chemicals said to be lowering testosterone in human males like phyphthalates).
By not having to get up, go walk or ride horses or similar like animal out in the jungle and or fields to track food to keep his family surviving anymore the male weakens or loses some of his primitive instincts and neuro chem. balances that manage other chemicals within the male body that helped to encourage high testosterone levels which alter the body shape-mind and strength.
It kind of ties back into technology and the attachment to it how it can change many…

They found that those with the highest levels of phthalates in their bodies had the lowest levels of testosterone. The effect was most noticeable in boys aged 6 to 12, and men and women aged 40 to 60. Interestingly, the biggest association was seen in women — those with the highest level of phthalates were associated with a 10.8 to 24 percent decline in testosterone.
“One surprising finding was that we did not observe significant associations among men ages 20 to 40, an age group for which previous research has reported a relationship,” says Meeker. “We did, however, find that some phthalates were associated with decreased testosterone among men ages 40 to 60. We were also surprised that associations among women ages 40 to 60 were among the strongest.”

www.nextavenue.org...

Or exposures to synthetic estrogens like BPA? Further lowering a mans testosterone, which in-turn weakens the masculinity factors even more OP.




Tie all this into the social pyramid schemes that run the world through various SENSORY affecting outlets and look at the movies – books – music – clothes (tight pants are in) for males? and how much more and more less masculine male behavior is being projected upon the younger males. And you can begin to see why the males are beginning to fall wayside and yes those of us who remain more masculine are seeming to be overaggressive!?!

So men to keep up – exercise – eat well – try to avoid the chemicals as best possible but don’t be ocd about it and DO YOUR BEST NOT TO ALLOW THE PROGRAMMING TO PROGRAM YOU and if possible find a woman on your frequency level to make happy and keep you happy...

I remember some ATS members went into a big “rabbit hole” I wont share their ATS names if someone on ATS wishes to feel free.

During their times in the caverns they were said to of encountered something that, began to change them into women?
They said their clothes bonded to their skin and changed to dresses with heels, this is in a cave and they said the clothes didn't even collect dirt on them? shifting!
They said the “encounter” down there was toying with them as if it was younger in age or immature.
As it was changing them into females.
These males were seeking inner EA*RTH data conspiracies and so went into some caves in N.A.
They FOUND out somethings, down there.

They were U2U contacting me here with some tech they had in there after they learned from ATS that I had interest in Reptilians, they were kind of asking for my help if I could provide any, but alas that was years ago and that data has been destroyed and archived

Anyway the option they had was they had to continue through on their inner EA*RTH expedition and they would regain their manhood or allow fear of the unknown to prevent them and remain women…
Of which they said they would be given jobs in the NEVADA desert in Las Vegas as Casino employees if they remained women…

Cannot really comment too much further, but I only shared this because they mentioned this was part of the 2012 process, back then this was approx. 2009-2011.

So maybe “some” don’t want the high testosterone males here and want the submitting girly males to be female or female like… THIS IS ATS SO TAKE WITH GRAIN OF SALT
I always wondered were all the WATCHERS MALE and sought women or were some FEMALE or BOTH and sought males?

NAMASTE*******

Here in France they've just gone the way of the Bonobo.

Seriously, I tend towards the opinion that the latest wave of feminism has made misandry acceptable in the US and uses extreme attitudes about physical aggressivity as a way of oppressing males.

I encouraged my kids to play sports in order to learn to master their aggressive instincts and express them. I always felt it was especially important for my boys, who would get really out of balance, mentally and physically when their hormones were going wacko and they didn't have an outlet for aggressive action.
They did kick boxing, fencing, soccer, gymnastics, and rugby.
The rugby is what they really ended up sticking with a long time. It seemed to be especially fulfilling because although there was aggressive physical opposition , there wasn't any hostility in attitudes. Rugby players and the families always had a very gregarious, friendly and affectionate way of being - even towards the other teams. It was the ultimate in "positive" aggression.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope
Do you personally feel you have been emasculated? Sorry not just aimed at you, but all men in this thread. How were you emasculated? When did it happen? My brother couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag, but he is an excellent farther to his little girl and a hard worker who provides for his family. Surely that is masculine enough or do you need physically to fight other men to prove your masculinity.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
As a left wing male who has had two very feminist girlfriends why do I not feel emasculated. I avoid fist fights whenever I can. My good looks just aren't worth jeopardising to prove some Neanderthal instincts are still alive.

There is a difference between not feeling it and not being it. Obviously.

We're all pink, on the inside.

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

This post reply should have been made into a thread.Very
interesting things to read here.
Back in the 1940's,there was a UFO book called,"They Knew Too Much About UFO's".
Something like that and there was a section about a shape-shifter.This being
would change from a man to a woman in an instant.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

My brother couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag, but he is an excellent farther to his little girl and a hard worker who provides for his family. Surely that is masculine enough or do you need physically to fight other men to prove your masculinity.

Yes, that is great in our modern society. Where will he be when it all begins to crumble?

a reply to: Bluesma

The thing about rugby is its easy to respect each other mostly, because everyone feels the pain at one time or another, the team needs everyone to pull along and whenever anyone is lacking, there's 14 other players ready to gee them up.

The physicality also leads to respect for your opponents in much the same way as boxers post fight are usually very respectful of each other.

I think that is why sport is so relevant to a child's growth. It's a way of teaching them how to handle adversity and triumph that they can carry on into adulthood.

The stress of walking up to kick an important goal, the will to keep running and put a tackle in in the 79th minute even though you are knackered and hurting. ..finding out that you aren't made of glass...there's a ton of reasons why sport especially contact sports are important.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Do you personally feel you have been emasculated? Sorry not just aimed at you, but all men in this thread. How were you emasculated? When did it happen? My brother couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag, but he is an excellent farther to his little girl and a hard worker who provides for his family. Surely that is masculine enough or do you need physically to fight other men to prove your masculinity.

No, not at all. I don’t think masculinity is disappearing, or that we are evolving to be less masculine, only that it isn’t valued as much as it used to be or even needed.

I’m sure your brother would fight to the death to protect his family.