Jesus said; Your faith can move mountains

a reply to: Joecanada11

Joe, there is not indication Jesus was angry in any context of his cursing of the fig tree.

But you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

However, if you need a verse that shows Jesus got angry why not use this one

Mr 3:5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

If I were to curse someone or something it would be because I was angry. For what other reason would he do such a thing?

Anyways I'll stay out of this thread now as I'm off topic.

a reply to: Joecanada11

Well you may curse out of anger but there is no proof Jesus did.

I was just showing that Jesus did get angry but he never sinned in anger as you or I would.

The tree was full leafed when it should not have been, possibly by global warming and as such it had no fruit. Fig trees first have flowers, that produce fruit and as the fruit develops the leaves grow over them to protect them. Hence when Jesus Saw the tree with leaves by all reckoning it should have had fruit, the tree was deceptive as it had leaves and therefore should have had fruit and it didn't. But because it had grown without fruit at the wrong time he pronounced it's death.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: namelesss

the Bible does define faith

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The biblical definition came from someones unenlightened poetic imagination, a real bumpersticker if you have no actual experience, like the vast majority of 'Xtians'!
Perhaps I've mentioned before that if all the unenlightened toxic crap were removed from the bible, there MIGHT be ten pages left!
There is a desperate need for a 'critical update'!
The bible DOES get it right when it warned to NEVER 'believe' your own 'thoughts/feelings'!
('Feelings are 'thoughts'!)

Because Knowledge = experience!!, I know that biblical bumpersticker is garbage!
All 'definition' = 'conditional', all (the vanity of) 'thought/imagination', which is completely incapable of 'defining/conditionalizing' the transcendental, the absolutely 'unconditional'!

“Your task is not to seek for Love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi

True, unconditional Love is ALWAYS recognized by It's unconditional Virtues; Compassion, Empathy, Sympathy, Gratitude, Humility, Charity (Charity is never taking more than your share of anything, ever!), Honesty, Happiness, Faith...
ALWAYS!

(The vanity of 'hope' (the result of vain 'judgment' (sin)) is not on the list.)

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: namelesss
New Testament faith is by definition faith in a person, the difference being that this person is more trustworthy than humans in general.

The Faith that I see in Jesus teachings/life is unconditional Love!
He certainly did not pick and choose whom to Love!
There were no 'conditions'!
"Just as I Am!" Isn't that how the song goes?
Unconditional Love accepts us AS WE ARE! THAT is Jesus' new testament message, and if you get 'discrimination/duality' from that, then your Pharisaical reading of the 'words' is just vanity!
And he said the "you can be as I Am!" With no quibbling!
It's all in the transcendence of the unconditional!
To use his life and teachings to support bigotry and discrimination is blasphemy, as far as I can see!

"Many believed in his name... but Jesus did not trust himself to them, because he knew all men" (John ch2 vv23-25)

The vanity of 'belief' has nothing to do with unconditional Love!
'Belief' = the duality of the "conditional" imagination/ego!

Incidentally, this thread is focussed on Biblical theology. The idea that duality is something to be rejected belongs to other religions or philosophies, so it is alien to Biblical thinking and has no relevance here.

Your Pharisaical insistence on the 'words' is because you have never actually experienced the unconditional Love that Jesus exemplified, that the entire new testament is about!
It is YOU who are vainly clueless here,
A reader of 'books' with no Knowledge/experience, other than of 'books'!
And a faulty book, desperately in need of a 'critical update'!
If all the unenlightened crap were excised, we might have 10 pages left, so don't mouth your vain sounding brass ignorant 'quotes' at me.
A 'theologian'? Someone who fills their head with book words, in vain self importance, rather then undergoing the pain of the breaking and reforming of the Heart and becoming a 'different person', 'reborn'.
A vain pretender...

Sorry, but you don't have any experience of Faith, so, well, you don't have anything to tell me, no matter what 'book' you need to quote.

a reply to: namelesss
If I don't have anything to tell you, nothing compels you to read.
This is an exercise in Biblical theology.
If you prefer abstract philosophy, you might like to try the philosophy forum.

a reply to: DISRAELI I'm glad you wrote this because I have been thinking recently about these things. I feel like I came to terms with dealing with my friends faith as it at times seems only the size of a mustard seed and what is the point of me getting worked up about her faith when she does have it, however small it may be.

I do find myself questioning why God puts me through things and I told my friend that I am tested by God to humble me and bring me back to him in greater faith. I brought up the story of Job and what ever Job went through, he stayed strong in his faith and I find that inspiring. My friend got really mad and said old testament stories do not apply and that people are no longer tested by God.
If people aren't tested, then why through no act of my own do things happen that nearly break me emotionally, mentally and spiritually in two?
I always think it is so my mind will focus better on gratitude towards God in Jesus Christ.
I do pray for things to be less stressful, but if that is not in Gods plan for me, what's left are the little things. An example of a little thing would be in my mind I felt like judging a woman that looked able bodied in a wheel chair and then I thought better of it not knowing her condition at all and she looked at me and smiled and I thanked the Lord for changing my thoughts and that she smiled at me.
Sorry for going on and on, your OP has me thinking a lot.

a reply to: peppycat
If the opening post made you think about the question of faith, then it's doing its job. Thank you for letting me know that it helped you do this.

I disagree with your friend about the relevance of Job. You may want to remind her that James approves of the steadfastness of Job (ch5 v11).
The message of Job is undoubtedly about faith, in the sense of "trust". You'll notice that Job gets no explanation at all, even at the end. All he gets told is "I am God, and this is what I do. Deal with it." Therefore he has to trust in God, not just without seeing, but even without understanding. That is faith at its most fundamental, and we all end up in that position. In the last analysis, we cannot know why God does everything that he does.

One of the members of my last church had Type 1 diabetes, and all the health troubles which that entails. He had legs amputated, he had a replacement kidney. His wife was giving me a lift home from a Bible study, one evening, and asked me if I knew any examples in the Bible of prayers not being answered. I could guess the reason for the question, so I was glad to remember the instance which Paul quotes (2 Corinthians ch12 vv8-9), and to be able to track it down within a few hundred yards.
I think the approach we need is to ask in faith, and accept God's response in faith.

a reply to: namelesss

Maybe best for you just to stay out of Biblical topics. And go into the bumper sticker business.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Well taught and appreciate you and your messages.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: namelesss

Maybe best for you just to stay out of Biblical topics. And go into the bumper sticker business.

Sorry, friend, but when I see ignorance presented, it is often my responsibility to offer the painful truth.
Wise people get used to the pain, that is how we become wise.
When I answer a post, there are more people than just you reading that answer.
It is not all about 'you'.
If you want to make your own forum, and ban anyone who sees things differently than you, feel free.
Until then, on this public forum, I will exercise my option of answering or not.
If you don't like my answers, ignore them.
If you find that you have a problem ignoring, it's probably because of that pain of the uncomfortable truth thing.

Besides, do you think that I got my knowledge of the bible from Chick Tracts?
I've read it, many times, studied it, pressed them grapes and drank the living wine!
And can, thus, recognize the
A) crap that is in it (most of it) and
B) Highlight the God that you have vainly and ignorantly made of a simple book!
There's that painful Truth, again.
Don't feel bad, they couldn't (and still can't, obviously) allow the messenger to live!
But despite those of your Pharisaical and ignorant ilk, the message of unconditional Love will prevail!

“Your task is not to seek for Love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi

True, unconditional Love is ALWAYS recognized by It's unconditional Virtues; Compassion, Empathy, Sympathy, Gratitude, Humility, Charity (charity is never taking more than your share of anything, ever!), Honesty, Happiness, Faith...
ALWAYS!

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: namelesss
If I don't have anything to tell you, nothing compels you to read.
This is an exercise in Biblical theology.
If you prefer abstract philosophy, you might like to try the philosophy forum.

I'm sorry son, but among other things, I am a philosopher, whether that disturbs you or not, I have the capacity for original critical thought, and I have vast actual experience!
Unlike those who merely mindlessly, vainly, worship a 'book'!
The truth hurts!
You killed Jesus because he bore that same truth!
If you have nothing but mindlessly imbibed words from some book, we really have nothing to talk about.
I have already read all your books.
Please feel free to ignore my posts if they so bother you.
Perhaps you can get me banned.

Oh, bye the bye, 'theology' is but one branch of the tree of philosophy.
Perhaps it is 'you' who is on the wrong site?
Perhaps a mindless 'believer' site of your own?