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Is this the end of the "special relationship" ?

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posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 11:58 AM
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Obviously it's what the British PM wants (to stay in the EU) and Obama went there to be supportive to him. They do that for one another. I don't see the problem. He said outright "I don't make decisions here, and I don't vote here". He said he thought the UK would fare better economically if they remain in the EU.

Nothing to get all pissy about.




posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: Fromabove




I hope that Britain leaves the EU. They have always been an independent and proud nation with a rich world history. Their kinship with America goes way back to America's beginnings.


An independent and proud nation that was "the sick man of Europe" before it joined the EEC.

If the UK and the US are so close, why did you pull the rug out from under us in 1947? In Suez?

Where were you in the Falklands? When the IRA was bombing us day in and day out?



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 12:04 PM
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originally posted by: angeldoll
Obviously it's what the British PM wants (to stay in the EU) and Obama went there to be supportive to him. They do that for one another. I don't see the problem. He said outright "I don't make decisions here, and I don't vote here". He said he thought the UK would fare better economically if they remain in the EU.

Nothing to get all pissy about.


No, of course there isn't.

But at the tail end of 2015, Dodgy Dave said we would be okay outside of the E.U and if he couldn't get an agreement on wholesale changes he would be happy to lead the U.K out of the E.U.

Of course, we all know Dodgy Dave didn't get his monicker for nothing. The man is an out and out liar, a Bilderberberger and deep rooted Europhile. He is using negative tactics, as he has done at every election campaign since 2010.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 12:15 PM
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originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese
a reply to: Fromabove




I hope that Britain leaves the EU. They have always been an independent and proud nation with a rich world history. Their kinship with America goes way back to America's beginnings.


An independent and proud nation that was "the sick man of Europe" before it joined the EEC.

If the UK and the US are so close, why did you pull the rug out from under us in 1947? In Suez?

Where were you in the Falklands? When the IRA was bombing us day in and day out?


Are you forgetting the fact we were supplied with sidewinder missiles on 48 hours notice? Or that the USS Iwo Jima was on standby to replace one of our carrier's if one was damaged or sunk?

What would you have had the US do to combat the IRA? A domestic and homegrown problem? Deploy troops onto the streets of the UK? If we had required support or even asked for it we would have been a laughing stock on an international level.
edit on 34121642 by sg1642 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 12:20 PM
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originally posted by: SprocketUK


Nor is our presidential election anybody's business but ours, yet Brits sure have a lot "2ps" opinion about that. So it's OK for Brits to weigh in on America's election, but it's not OK for Obama to weigh in about yours. The fact is most Americans don't give a rip how Britain votes--or Scotland. You will enjoy the consequences of what you do.

We shall enjoy watching.


I tell people not from the U.S. this all the time. It's not just Brits, it's pretty much every country. Not just elections, but strictly U.S. concerns and issues are commented on by people from the outside, but the second you mention anything about their internal issues, suddenly it's not our business.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: MadhatterTheGreat


originally posted by: SprocketUK


Nor is our presidential election anybody's business but ours, yet Brits sure have a lot "2ps" opinion about that. So it's OK for Brits to weigh in on America's election, but it's not OK for Obama to weigh in about yours. The fact is most Americans don't give a rip how Britain votes--or Scotland. You will enjoy the consequences of what you do.

We shall enjoy watching.


I tell people not from the U.S. this all the time. It's not just Brits, it's pretty much every country. Not just elections, but strictly U.S. concerns and issues are commented on by people from the outside, but the second you mention anything about their internal issues, suddenly it's not our business.


The reason for that is the fact our culture's etc are so intertwined and the influence and dominance the states have on a global scale.

When our so called leaders will enquire how high when informed they must jump, it is going to cause the small island across the pond to stick their 2p/2c in. When Obama is making comments on going to the back of the que he would do well to remember the countless families who are missing sons fathers brothers or daughters because we rushed into two wars to support our allies.

I don't understand the constant rivalry and bickering that goes on. It might be a historical thing or maybe pride. The people of the UK and the US are so similar and for the most part see things the same way. I've never personally met an American that I thought of as being anything less than an exemplary person. I'm sure most would say the same. Yet as soon we get behind a keyboard we act like children towards each other.
edit on 21121642 by sg1642 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese
a reply to: grainofsand

There is more to the EU than immigration.

The only sector that will benefit if we leave the EU is big business, who will still enjoy the benefits of global trade without any of that pesky social and employment protection the EU insists on.

Immigration is just a smoke screen to sell it to the masses.

If we leave the EU tomorrow, and close our borders to everyone and his dog, we'll still be exploited.



Only the remain lot trot out the tired old cliché about closing borders to all.
No one in brexit believes in zero immigration, we just want an end to the minimum 1/4 million people every year that we have suffered over the last decade.


As for the erroneous assertion that immigration is the only thing, look back through the thread and you will see how we are denied direct representation under EU rules, so you can add democracy to the list of things Brexit wants.

TTIP is another thing you may be interested in, since continued membership of the EU will resul in TTIP being introduced and an end to national health and education...and many other public services when we are forced to allow big business in to those spheres.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 01:09 PM
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originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese
a reply to: grainofsand

There is more to the EU than immigration.

Indeed you are correct, and nowhere did I say it was, so I wonder why you felt I may need reminding.
I was replying to a specific factually incorrect assertion about control of borders, posted by another member.
Immigration is not the dominant issue drawing me towards voting leave.


The only sector that will benefit if we leave the EU is big business, who will still enjoy the benefits of global trade without any of that pesky social and employment protection the EU insists on.

Interesting personal opinion. I disagree but hey, neither of us can verify or confirm much at all, leave or remain.


Immigration is just a smoke screen to sell it to the masses.

Again, interesting personal opinion



If we leave the EU tomorrow, and close our borders to everyone and his dog, we'll still be exploited.

Who knows eh?
I'm voting to leave for personal ideological reasons of supremacy of state and sovereignty. I prefer to be exploited by Westminster and not Brussels, regardless of the potential challenges.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 01:12 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese
a reply to: grainofsand

There is more to the EU than immigration.

Indeed you are correct, and nowhere did I say it was, so I wonder why you felt I may need reminding.
I was replying to a specific factually incorrect assertion about control of borders, posted by another member.
Immigration is not the dominant issue drawing me towards voting leave.


The only sector that will benefit if we leave the EU is big business, who will still enjoy the benefits of global trade without any of that pesky social and employment protection the EU insists on.

Interesting personal opinion. I disagree but hey, neither of us can verify or confirm much at all, leave or remain.


Immigration is just a smoke screen to sell it to the masses.

Again, interesting personal opinion



If we leave the EU tomorrow, and close our borders to everyone and his dog, we'll still be exploited.

Who knows eh?
I'm voting to leave for personal ideological reasons of supremacy of state and sovereignty. I prefer to be exploited by Westminster and not Brussels, regardless of the potential challenges.


..and of course you have a much better chance of effecting change if you only have to convince Westminster.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth
..and of course you have a much better chance of effecting change if you only have to convince Westminster.

Agreed, and sovereignty issues are my primary reasons for voting leave.
It is also why I say Obama can go # himself with his hypocritical advice that we should cede supremacy of state to a political union. He would never advocate such a move for the US, and it certainly wouldn't wash with US citizens.

Yep, warts and all, I choose all the challenges of being governed by a sovereign UK from Westminster, not Brussels.
...as US citizens would choose being governed by Washington, not Toronto or anywhere else in a hypothetical American Union.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 02:37 PM
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A Less Perfect Union


originally posted by: grainofsand
It is also why I say Obama can go # himself with his hypocritical advice that we should cede supremacy of state to a political union. He would never advocate such a move for the US, and it certainly wouldn't wash with US citizens.

I'm not so sure about that. Throughout his career, President Obama has consistently expressed strong support for international institutions, such as the United Nations, and strong opposition to American unilateralism.

While that doesn't necessarily translate to support for a surrender of national sovereignty, it's not a stretch to consider that if there was an American continental equivalent of the European Union, President Obama would, if true to form, advocate U.S. membership in it, along with whatever compromises of independence such membership would entail.

Not that I presume to speak on his behalf; I'm just saying that I'm not at all confident President Obama is being a hypocrite to encourage the UK to stay in the EU.

Seems quite like him to me, but Your Mileage May Vary.





P.S. But you are absolutely right that compromises of U.S. sovereignty tend to be unpopular with the U.S. electorate. I suspect that unpopularity is why President Obama isn't more strident about globalist initiatives, but again, that's just my impression, which may well be mistaken, and YMMV.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 02:39 PM
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I am... embarrassed that we have a president who bends over backwards to cut sweet heart deals for people that have killed americans, to cement his "legacy"... and turns a blind eye towards our long time friends and allies... and even inserts himself into their domestic issues. (to me voting to leave the EU is a domestic issue for the UK)

What ever decision the people of the UK make I truly hope it works out for the best for them.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 02:41 PM
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Did anyone see the body language of Obama and Cameron playing golf? is it just me or did Cameron look overtly ingratiating?



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
I am... embarrassed that we have a president who bends over backwards to cut sweet heart deals for people that have killed americans, to cement his "legacy"... and turns a blind eye towards our long time friends and allies... and even inserts himself into their domestic issues. (to me voting to leave the EU is a domestic issue for the UK)

What ever decision the people of the UK make I truly hope it works out for the best for them.


It's interesting because I think the UK decision is very much a global issue - which is the very reason Obama is involved. If the EU breaks up it cuts the legs from under the globalists that are working hard to form regional centre's of control. A North American Union is already designed (basically Canada, US and Mexico) and then of course there is NAFTA and the TPA/TPP.

North American Union

This is about protecting the structure of the model whilst it is still being built and Obama is a major spokesperson/puppet.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 02:55 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

No argument from me on anything you wrote..

But ultimately to my backwards, primitive, individualistic mind, its not my place to tell you what to do with your house.

If you ask for my opinion, or ask for my help... I will give you my opinion, and any help I can, but until such a time we (as in America) have no business trying to insert ourselves into your personnel decisions.

On a side note, since we (the US Fed) have re-written a law against dealing with human traffickers so we can let a country that essentially is a modern day slave kingdom (kingdom isnt the right word.)into the TPP love, I feel even more strongly that we have no business telling you how to run your house.
edit on 23-4-2016 by Irishhaf because: I forgot a bunch..



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 03:05 PM
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a reply to: Majic

Agreed, I don't know enough about the guy to assert he would not advocate such a move for the US.
I should have focused on him advocating something for the UK which he knows would not be accepted by US citizens.
Maybe that's the sinister hidden world plan, you know how things often start and become 'normal' in the UK then introduced to the US.

[/shudders] I can only hope it is not a master plan and my countryfolk vote leave, as I shall.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 03:07 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Irishhaf
I am... embarrassed that we have a president who bends over backwards to cut sweet heart deals for people that have killed americans, to cement his "legacy"... and turns a blind eye towards our long time friends and allies... and even inserts himself into their domestic issues. (to me voting to leave the EU is a domestic issue for the UK)

What ever decision the people of the UK make I truly hope it works out for the best for them.


It's interesting because I think the UK decision is very much a global issue - which is the very reason Obama is involved. If the EU breaks up it cuts the legs from under the globalists that are working hard to form regional centre's of control. A North American Union is already designed (basically Canada, US and Mexico) and then of course there is NAFTA and the TPA/TPP.

North American Union

This is about protecting the structure of the model whilst it is still being built and Obama is a major spokesperson/puppet.


Interesting.

I've always thought something similar.

Many Independent nations are difficult to get control of. However, you organize those nations into bigger entities (EU, African Union, North American Union etc) Then it would be nothing for the next logical step to be a larger entity that the other entities join for a global presence. A One World Government, so to speak.

Yep, all part of a bigger plan.

IMO anyway.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 03:21 PM
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Why setup controls that are this tricky when you only need one control mechanism? Money.

But today money isn't what you think, it's data. Big data = big money and where is most of the big data in this world?

You sure can go anywhere you want with a surplus of oil, but where will you go without a surplus of data?

It's all a cog and geared machine, nothing has changed minus the parts used to get the task done.

OWG = One World Government is and has always been the goal.

The people have the power but the differences that are always being pushed to separate us have always stood in the way of true organizational movements. We the people could come together and demand change, hell we could right every wrong if we only worked together.

But somehow the sacrifices our people have faught for in our past aren't being built upon they're being torn down and redefined into more issues than we ever had before.

The PC movement isn't a movement of equality its a movement of segregation and isolation. Divide and conquer type of movement.

If we the people don't truly understand and believe in that phrase, than we are nothing more than financial puppet slaves helping to produces the continuation of the human species and the creation of the " Republic " from star wars.

But words won't do anything now, only action, see the change, be the change, spread the change.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 03:50 PM
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originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese

An independent and proud nation that was "the sick man of Europe" before it joined the EEC.

If the UK and the US are so close, why did you pull the rug out from under us in 1947? In Suez?

Where were you in the Falklands? When the IRA was bombing us day in and day out?


Suez was 1956 mate. Remember Suez ? The war the British & French invented to protect the Suez canal from the Israelis through the medium of bombing the crap out of Egypt ? You can hardly blame the Americans for backing off, we'd have done the same (and did over Vietnam).

The 1982 Falklands war ? Thatcher's government signalled that we wouldn't defend those islands because of her decision in the 1981 Defence White Paper which removed the Falkland Islands guardship and which planned to sell the new aircraft carrier HMS Invincible to Australia, to decommission nearly 20% of the destroyers, frigates and amphibious landing ships. Quite why you think the USA should help defend British colonial possessions when the UK government planned to give up the capability required to do so I really don't know.

The IRA and the bombings ? What did you want the USA to do ? US servicemen to patrol the streets of Ulster instead of the RUC and British Army ? Tbh the US Government could have cracked down more on the collection of funds in NYC and Chicago for "republican families" and been more vocal in condemning Republican violence, but the Loyalist communities were hardly paragons of virtue were they ? They openly collected "for loyalist families" in Ulster and the West of Scotland. Yet everyone knew the money was going to buy guns and bomb making materials. The UK Government didn't want the Americans involved to any extent anyway, seeing Ulster as a purely domestic issue, one of simple criminality (e.g. giving no special political status to prisoners), conveniently ignoring the historic sectarian issue.

Know what ? Condemn the USA government, sure, but at least have a bit of understanding about the complexities involved at the time.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 03:52 PM
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originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: SprocketUK
So, as you know, the UK is about to have a referendum on our continued membership of the European Union.

Obama decides to come over and add his 2p worth to all the nutters predicting the sky will fall should we leave.

I don't think much of him interfering like this. It's no one's business but ours.


Nor is our presidential election anybody's business but ours, yet Brits sure have a lot "2ps" opinion about that. So it's OK for Brits to weigh in on America's election, but it's not OK for Obama to weigh in about yours. The fact is most Americans don't give a rip how Britain votes--or Scotland. You will enjoy the consequences of what you do.

We shall enjoy watching.


Hmm, we don't have dodgy Dave wading into the Presidential election though, do we?

There's a world of difference between members of ATS holding a particular view about any of the U.S presidential candidates and a leader of a nation who's only interest in the U.K staying in the E.U, is to ensure his precious TTP agreement is ratified by all countries within the E.U, including the U.K.


More than just a few here in the US can't stand him or his hard-handed, commie style actions, either.
The Pretender will be gone soon enough and anything he says is horse hockey. The US and The UK will always be on speed dial. But what do I know. I'm from the ignorant South where we cling to our God and guns, family and friends.



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