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Is this the end of the "special relationship" ?

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posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 07:20 AM
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originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: SprocketUK
So, as you know, the UK is about to have a referendum on our continued membership of the European Union.

Obama decides to come over and add his 2p worth to all the nutters predicting the sky will fall should we leave.

I don't think much of him interfering like this. It's no one's business but ours.


Nor is our presidential election anybody's business but ours, yet Brits sure have a lot "2ps" opinion about that. So it's OK for Brits to weigh in on America's election, but it's not OK for Obama to weigh in about yours. The fact is most Americans don't give a rip how Britain votes--or Scotland. You will enjoy the consequences of what you do.

We shall enjoy watching.


Hmm, we don't have dodgy Dave wading into the Presidential election though, do we?

There's a world of difference between members of ATS holding a particular view about any of the U.S presidential candidates and a leader of a nation who's only interest in the U.K staying in the E.U, is to ensure his precious TTP agreement is ratified by all countries within the E.U, including the U.K.


This isn't a presidential election though, is it? FFS, I really cannot understand the mentality of people on here. Do you know what to hear the views of others, or are you scared they will say something that goes against your own opinion so much??


Its probably more important than a presidential election to be fair. Its a straight choice between one way and another. I really don't think it's becoming of a foreign head of state to weigh in.

How would the Yanks feel if the Queen stated she rather liked Donald Trump and wouldn't let Hillary set foot in any of her palaces?

It would be well out of order.


To compare the two is ridiculous, but then again didn't Boris start to look pale last night?

This isn't a general election, this isn't a presidential election. I'm sure there are plenty of world leaders that want to assure the vote leave campaign they are doing the right thing - probably, somewhere.


It's a question of sovereignty though isn't it, and whilst Obama can have an opinion, to share his opinion in the way he has, by using threatening language, only increases my resolve to vote leave.


What threatening language? My god, i can't believe some of these reactions. He was being asked questions by journalists. One of the mantras often spouted is that the world would still trade with us (yes they would) and that deals would be rushed through (no they won't). Obama was simply making the point that US priorities would be to do a deal with the many (EU) rather than the one (UK). It would be completely idiotic to expect anything less.
edit on 23-4-2016 by Flavian because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-4-2016 by Flavian because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 08:05 AM
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a reply to: uncommitted

Not accepting forecasts (speculation) as fact is not blinkered. Both sides are using negative campaigning and hyperbole. As you can only see this in the side which opposes your view speaks volumes.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 08:16 AM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

I think it would be in England's best interest to leave the E.U. while they can.
The only thing is it may already be too late.
edit on 23-4-2016 by mamabeth because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 08:20 AM
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Like American business takes any notice of what the president says! Investment flows both ways across the pond, America owns about a quarter of the British economy, which is the fifth largest in the world, and Obuma says Brits are going to the back of the que? Haa Haa.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 09:00 AM
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originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: SprocketUK

When the prick comes out and says that he would cede supremacy of the US Supreme Court to a trans-American court I'll listen to what he has to say.
He's a full of # hypocrite, he knows full well that wouldn't fly in the US yet wishes that we vote against sovereignty.

He won't even be president when the UK is negotiating trade deals after any vote to leave.
# him, I support his right to an opinion of course but # his opinion wishing my country to continue ceding sovereignty to the EU.
Prick.

/rant


Your argument would hold weight if you were comparing apples to apples - it isn't. It's a knee jerk reaction that assumes the circumstances are the same and would be better placed if we were looking at joining the EU - we are already in. I think project fear is clearly being peddled by the vote leave campaign, shame they can't come out with actual compelling reasons to leave apart from nationalistic bollox, non sequiturs and the logic of a 16 year old who wants to be a politician.



So we should listen to old Bammy, but not to our own politicians?

You must be drunk.

Edit - In every post I make, if you do not agree with it, you usually bang out the word bias. Your post is full of your own bias. I am beginning to question exactly what your intentions are?


Which politicians, I assume you mean Corbyn as you praise him so often? Not drunk, just surprised at some of the comments on here.


Well as Corbyn has declared his stance and he is very much in the remain camp, your comment is far off the mark.

I agree with Corbyn on many issues, remaining in the E.U isn't one of them.


Yes, I was being sarcastic as you have often professed your admiration for him



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 09:07 AM
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a reply to: Flavian

It really is a strange one, still waiting for a compelling argument from the leave campaign that I can listen to, digest and weigh its value - at the moment it seems to be the money sent to the EU (the figure seems somewhat fluid, does or doesn't include rebates depending on who is referring to it and certainly doesn't cover what that money does gives us through trade access which would still have to be spent while arranging independent trade access), and immigration although the leave campaign often seem to forget we are not in the Schengen zone).



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 09:08 AM
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originally posted by: Morrad
a reply to: uncommitted

Not accepting forecasts (speculation) as fact is not blinkered. Both sides are using negative campaigning and hyperbole. As you can only see this in the side which opposes your view speaks volumes.















Not at all, I would see both points of the leave campaign gave any apart from just blustering that 'everything will be the same'.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 09:09 AM
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originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: SprocketUK

I think it would be in England's best interest to leave the E.U. while they can.
The only thing is it may already be too late.


I notice your signature no longer includes your support for the English Defence League? Your view based on that support is hardly surprising.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 09:19 AM
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False Sunset

Though his overall performance in office has been disappointing, President Obama is no fool. He knows quite well that Britons don't take kindly to threats of any sort, subtle or overt, and that comments like his would serve more to energize eurosceptics than intimidate or cower the people of the UK.

He's also on the way out, and his successor would have to be a blithering idiot to put America's largest foreign investor at the back of any "queue". Absolute nonsense, and utterly incredible.

Ergo, his real message must be: "Fly High The Union Jack!"


As for the special relationship, rumors of its death are greatly exaggerated. Despite a bit of friction a couple of centuries back and the inevitable differences of opinions friends will have from time to time, Britain and its most troublesome colony will always pull together when push comes to shove, and we wouldn't have it any other way.

I don't think the UK and EU can separate without a fair amount of pain, but I think it would be naive to assume new economic opportunities would not arise as well.

Whatever the outcome of the EU membership referendum may be, cheers to my good cousins across the Pond.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 09:20 AM
link   

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: SprocketUK

I think it would be in England's best interest to leave the E.U. while they can.
The only thing is it may already be too late.


I notice your signature no longer includes your support for the English Defence League? Your view based on that support is hardly surprising.


And there is the main fallback position of the remainers...Ooh, if you want to leave you must be racist!"


Change the record.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 09:37 AM
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originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: SprocketUK
So, as you know, the UK is about to have a referendum on our continued membership of the European Union.

Obama decides to come over and add his 2p worth to all the nutters predicting the sky will fall should we leave.

I don't think much of him interfering like this. It's no one's business but ours.


Nor is our presidential election anybody's business but ours, yet Brits sure have a lot "2ps" opinion about that. So it's OK for Brits to weigh in on America's election, but it's not OK for Obama to weigh in about yours. The fact is most Americans don't give a rip how Britain votes--or Scotland. You will enjoy the consequences of what you do.

We shall enjoy watching.


Hmm, we don't have dodgy Dave wading into the Presidential election though, do we?

There's a world of difference between members of ATS holding a particular view about any of the U.S presidential candidates and a leader of a nation who's only interest in the U.K staying in the E.U, is to ensure his precious TTP agreement is ratified by all countries within the E.U, including the U.K.


This isn't a presidential election though, is it? FFS, I really cannot understand the mentality of people on here. Do you know what to hear the views of others, or are you scared they will say something that goes against your own opinion so much??


Its probably more important than a presidential election to be fair. Its a straight choice between one way and another. I really don't think it's becoming of a foreign head of state to weigh in.

How would the Yanks feel if the Queen stated she rather liked Donald Trump and wouldn't let Hillary set foot in any of her palaces?

It would be well out of order.


To compare the two is ridiculous, but then again didn't Boris start to look pale last night?

This isn't a general election, this isn't a presidential election. I'm sure there are plenty of world leaders that want to assure the vote leave campaign they are doing the right thing - probably, somewhere.


It's a question of sovereignty though isn't it, and whilst Obama can have an opinion, to share his opinion in the way he has, by using threatening language, only increases my resolve to vote leave.


What threatening language? My god, i can't believe some of these reactions. He was being asked questions by journalists. One of the mantras often spouted is that the world would still trade with us (yes they would) and that deals would be rushed through (no they won't). Obama was simply making the point that US priorities would be to do a deal with the many (EU) rather than the one (UK). It would be completely idiotic to expect anything less.


To be told that we will be at the back of the queue in any Trade deal is a threat in my opinion. But of course if you want to remain then you probably take his words as gospel.

The U.K are the largest investor in the U.S than any other E.U country, so to be honest it is a hollow threat.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 09:53 AM
link   

originally posted by: Majic
False Sunset

Though his overall performance in office has been disappointing, President Obama is no fool. He knows quite well that Britons don't take kindly to threats of any sort, subtle or overt, and that comments like his would serve more to energize eurosceptics than intimidate or cower the people of the UK.

He's also on the way out, and his successor would have to be a blithering idiot to put America's largest foreign investor at the back of any "queue". Absolute nonsense, and utterly incredible.

Ergo, his real message must be: "Fly High The Union Jack!"


As for the special relationship, rumors of its death are greatly exaggerated. Despite a bit of friction a couple of centuries back and the inevitable differences of opinions friends will have from time to time, Britain and its most troublesome colony will always pull together when push comes to shove, and we wouldn't have it any other way.

I don't think the UK and EU can separate without a fair amount of pain, but I think it would be naive to assume new economic opportunities would not arise as well.

Whatever the outcome of the EU membership referendum may be, cheers to my good cousins across the Pond.


That's certainly a possibility I suppose.

Though mitigated somewhat by the spending disparity between the in and out camps with the gov already spending 9 mill before the campaign actually started.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 10:25 AM
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I think that this may be the point at which a vast number of people at last lose all faith in anything that these politicians or the media have to say. Society and the world is a mess and the excuses of the people that are supposedly in charge will be seen for what they are.

I'd vote to leave on principle, but we'll still be ruled by Mammon.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 11:21 AM
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originally posted by: Flavian
Oh, we also still wouldn't have control of the borders (too many other treaties already signed, not simply just EU).

I believe this statement to be factually incorrect.

Please quote these apparent treaties that will prevent the UK controlling immigration after leaving the EU.
The UK currently controls immigration from all parts of the world except the EU. It is solely membership of the EU that provides for uncontrolled immigration by citizens from EU nations.

So please do explain your assertion, I think you just made it up, but I am open to learn something new if indeed what you stated is correct.

edit on 23.4.2016 by grainofsand because: typo


CX

posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 11:35 AM
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I see two special relationships....one between the governments, and one between the people of those countries.

Whatever happens with the whole Europe thing, i won't let one affect the other.

Too many good friends here and elsewhere from the US.


CX.
edit on 23/4/16 by CX because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 11:39 AM
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Haha...lovin this.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 11:49 AM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Flavian
Oh, we also still wouldn't have control of the borders (too many other treaties already signed, not simply just EU).

I believe this statement to be factually incorrect.

Please quote these apparent treaties that will prevent the UK controlling immigration after leaving the EU.
The UK currently controls immigration from all parts of the world except the EU. It is solely membership of the EU that provides for uncontrolled immigration by citizens from EU nations.

So please do explain your assertion, I think you just made it up, but I am open to learn something new if indeed what you stated is correct.



Bang on. The whole remain campaign is based on lies and half truths...pretty much like Disco Dave's reformation of the EU



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 11:50 AM
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originally posted by: CX
I see two special relationships....one between the governments, and one between the people of those countries.

Whatever happens with the whole Europe thing, i won't let one affect the other.

Too many good friends here and elsewhere from the US.


CX.



Yes, I think you speak for a lot of people there. Well said.
edit on 30pSat, 23 Apr 2016 11:50:30 -050020162016-04-23T11:50:30-05:00kAmerica/Chicago30000000k by SprocketUK because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 11:54 AM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

All the Brexit drones are missing an important fact: membership of the EU is government policy.

The government has the duty, not just the right, to explain, defend and develop its policies.

This is basic constitutional politics.

Foreign governments, acting within the norms of diplomacy, will support their allies in their policies.

It was the same with the Scottish referendum. Nobody could give the 'out' camp the slightest hint of support because that would be interference with the democratic process. It does not apply the other way around because, important point, Scotland in the Union is government policy.

The leaders of Brexit campaign know this so why are they lying to the nation?



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 11:57 AM
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a reply to: grainofsand

There is more to the EU than immigration.

The only sector that will benefit if we leave the EU is big business, who will still enjoy the benefits of global trade without any of that pesky social and employment protection the EU insists on.

Immigration is just a smoke screen to sell it to the masses.

If we leave the EU tomorrow, and close our borders to everyone and his dog, we'll still be exploited.



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