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Are the Transgendered in the Bathrooms really the issue?

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posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 08:49 PM
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a reply to: Sargeras
I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers from, but I would guess they are way off. I'm sure the ones in the middle of the process aren't counted, and surely the ones that would change in a heartbeat but can't because of the logistics of finance aren't considered into that count either. I'm not taking a run at you, just that I have lived the life and seen quite a bit.

Many drag queens use the ladies room and many might not even realize they did. Some are JUST THAT GOOD with their makeup etc.. They would be the first to protect a woman in trouble I think. For the most part anyway.

Now for more numbers to compare. You need to consider not only the gay population which I never think gets the right numbers, but now add the "Bisexual" population that probably don't care to much for the most part, and then add people like some of the members here posting on this thread, while still straight don't get what the big deal is either. Now I think your big number has really changed.

Personally I think the True Transgendered just want to be left in peace to do their business.
I agree making a big deal out of new laws is making a bigger problem than what it would be left alone.

So perhaps when all is said and done, the laws aren't being made to make life for the few easier, but perhaps for the many with small minds... IMHO of course.

Not sure where the locker room issue came in unless some consider this too snowball to that point.
I always said we would politically correct ourselves right into a very tiny box then wonder what happened...



edit on 4/21/16 by onehuman because: typo

edit on 4/21/16 by onehuman because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 08:56 PM
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Let me put it this way. If I see a man walk into a women's bathroom that my wife happens to be using, I will physically remove him from that bathroom myself. Gay, transgender, cross-dresser, I don't care...my interest is in my wife's safety, not some LGBTLMNOP political agenda.



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 08:59 PM
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a reply to: argentus

I'll be plain. It isn't about the true transgendered so much. As you say, they've likely always been there for the most part.

The problem is that the laws they are now demanding are being written broadly enough that people who are not transgender can take advantage of them to victimize women and children. Or you could end up with an incident like the one I described above with the physical girl in the boys locker room where no one will ultimately win and everyone will have their lives ruined going forward.

Sometimes, things are (or were) done the way they were done not because anyone necessarily hated you (a transgender that is) but because there were actually reasons that had little to nothing to do directly with you but they end up working at cross purposes to what you might like.



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 08:59 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

How would you know?

Look, if a man, who looks like a man walks into a bathroom behind my wife, you can bet I'm following also. That situation isn't what this discussion is about.



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 09:02 PM
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originally posted by: onehuman
a reply to: Sargeras
I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers from, but I would guess they are way off. I'm sure the ones in the middle of the process aren't counted, and surely the ones that would change in a heartbeat but can't because of the logistics of finance aren't considered into that count either. I'm not taking a run at you, just that I have lived the life and seen quite a bit.

Many drag queens use the ladies room and many might not even realize they did. Some are JUST THAT GOOD with their makeup etc.. They would be the first to protect a woman in trouble I think. For the most part anyway.

Now for more numbers to compare. You need to consider not only the gay population which I never think gets the right numbers, but now add the "Bisexual" population that probably don't care to much for the most part, and then add people like some of the members here posting on this thread, while still straight don't get what the big deal is either. Now I think your big number has really changed.

Personally I think the True Transgendered just want to be left in piece to do their business.
I agree making a big deal out of new laws is making a bigger problem than what it would be left alone.

So perhaps when all is said and done, the laws aren't being made to make life for the few easier, but perhaps for the many with small minds... IMHO of course.

Not sure where the locker room issue came in unless some consider this too snowball to that point.
I always said we would politically correct ourselves right into a very tiny box then wonder what happened...





I think you called it perfectly, we pced ourselves into too small a box, now we are wondering WTF happened.



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 09:05 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Agree with much of what you are saying; I don't believe it is necessary to introduce any new laws to address a situation that we've all been handling just fine so far for the most part.

I don't see the correlation to your hypothetical locker rooms situation. Obviously, there are going to be problems if a person undresses and is perceived to have different equipment than those around them. I would strongly guess than nobody would intentionally put themselves in such a situation.



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 09:05 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
Let me put it this way. If I see a man walk into a women's bathroom that my wife happens to be using, I will physically remove him from that bathroom myself. Gay, transgender, cross-dresser, I don't care...my interest is in my wife's safety, not some LGBTLMNOP political agenda.


That is how I feel as well.

Society established these rules very long ago with good reason. Some folks just can't be trusted, and will take every opportunity to do the wrong thing.



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 09:08 PM
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originally posted by: argentus
a reply to: ketsuko

Agree with much of what you are saying; I don't believe it is necessary to introduce any new laws to address a situation that we've all been handling just fine so far for the most part.

I don't see the correlation to your hypothetical locker rooms situation. Obviously, there are going to be problems if a person undresses and is perceived to have different equipment than those around them. I would strongly guess than nobody would intentionally put themselves in such a situation.


Really?

Just like a gay couple wouldn't intentionally go to the only baker out of dozens in town that won't make a gay wedding cake?

Of course people will silly!

Were you born litteraly last night?



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 09:09 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So basically you are saying that if you had seen me from the back walking into the restroom where your wife was, you would drag me out just like that? Would you at least take time to make sure you actually had a man in your grasp or would it just be a very bad day for me minding my own business?



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 09:11 PM
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a reply to: argentus

The locker room issue is part and parcel. You are talking about YMCAs and fitness clubs and public pools and other such places where the restroom comes with a shower or locker room facility.

There is also the school to consider where girls and boys take gym class and the demand to be accommodated often comes with demands to use the same locker room/shower facility and compete on the same sports team as gender of identity, not physical sex.

These laws, as far as I know, do not distinguish, and I know the dept. of ed demands that schools do not discriminate.



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 09:12 PM
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originally posted by: onehuman
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So basically you are saying that if you had seen me from the back walking into the restroom where your wife was, you would drag me out just like that? Would you at least take time to make sure you actually had a man in your grasp or would it just be a very bad day for me minding my own business?



I didn't think you looked like a man, maybe not the prettiest woman I ever saw, but you still looked like a woman to me honestly.


cj6

posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 09:12 PM
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If you have a penis, use the men's restroom. If you have a vagina, use the women's restroom. It's that simple. No one cares if you're a man who thinks he's a woman and dresses like a woman, that's your thing to deal with, but if you have a penis you take your ass in the men's room and stop making a fuss about it. People really need to stop acting like we live in a world of sunshine and rainbows!!! Pedophiles are roaming around like the plague and I'm sorry if you find this whole restroom debate offensive, but we have to keep things in place to ensure the safety of women and children FIRST.



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 09:15 PM
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originally posted by: onehuman

The thing is, I am 5'10". I use the ladies room and yes I can be considered butch. I would have to say going to the restroom in public has been basically a chore for the most part. 8 out of 10 times it gets pointed out to me that I'm in the ladies room. Older women glance nervously at the door to make sure they are in the right restroom. I am gentle with them. Some women are pretty obnoxious about it, their tone insinuating that I must be illiterate to not be able to read the door. Some just plain rude.


I read this and I wonder why a transgendered person would even want to use the girls' bathroom.

Girls are mean


I bet if you came into the men's room to pee no one would say a word, not that I think you could pass for a man, but most of us could care less I would imagine.

edit on 21-4-2016 by Bone75 because: don't want to get in trouble



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: Sargeras

lol yeah I never claimed pretty that's for sure. The thing is, I don't walk into the ladies room backwards for you to see my face etc.. You would see a 5'10" 175b person with very short hair walking in with their back to you. That is why I asked if you would react that quickly.

I did try to do girly once for a fund raiser!


Just to add: I have used the mens room many times over the years and you are correct, no one noticed. I also found them to be much cleaner believe it or not. In nice places anyway. Women can be soooo nasty.
edit on 4/21/16 by onehuman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 09:23 PM
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a reply to: onehuman

If I thought you where a man, I would ask you what your business is in the ladies room? I'd much rather be publically embarrassed than have something happen to my wife. No, my initial response would not be physical, but I would be prepared to go that far if necessary.



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 09:23 PM
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a reply to: Sargeras


Really?

Just like a gay couple wouldn't intentionally go to the only baker out of dozens in town that won't make a gay wedding cake?

Of course people will silly!

Were you born litteraly last night?


Ask yourself this: Is your situation the rule or an exception? Put another way, do stories that you read about people pushing the edge of things to make a point represent the majority of their group, or just a few? Maybe a better question is, why should I care? People make a stand where they choose, same as you or me. I sure as hell don't feel subject to anyone else's approval.

Rhetorical question I know, but I'm nearly 60.



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 09:31 PM
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a reply to: onehuman

Let me preface my comment with this--I am getting ordained in order to officiate a wedding between two gay friends this summer. I hang out on their front porch nearly every weekend, drinking with them, their (and my) gay and straight friends, and even one full-on transgendered woman (got all of the surgeries and hormone treatments and everything) name "Coyote."

I have absolutely no biases against the LGBT community or its "members."

But here's my issue with the whole "bathroom law" problem--I'm pretty much sick and tired of so much bending over backward for such a minority of people. In reality, the amount of people who are truly transgendered in our nation falls at well less than one percent of the population. I'm guess (although an exact number is never agreed upon) even closer to one percent of one percent. That's 1/10,000 people, and we have states making laws that affect--negatively or positively--this group of people.

Why do we need laws for this? This is one of those situations where we must ask, what is the lesser of two evils, having 1/10,000 people possibly uncomfortable with using a public restroom, or have dramatically more people (according to polls, anyway) who are uncomfortable with these people using a public restroom that doesn't match the "tackle" with which they were born?

Here's the thing--I agree that most people either don't even pay attention to others in the bathroom with them or won't even notice if a trans-gendered person walked into the bathroom, but I also agree that this issue dramatically affects some non-TG people more than TG people (when going by total number of people affected).

We live in a society, and part of living in society is that we make legislative decisions that, in general, have the best outcome for the most people possible. I'm not convinced that these types of laws do that.

Take my son, for example. He has Asperger's Syndrome and has always had very high anxiety with using public bathrooms at all--no matter how clean or private that they are--but especially one's that have minimal privacy. But he has been forced to deal with that reality in life, and I don't think that private businesses should be forced to make all bathroom accommodate those with anxiety like my son by, let's say, making all bathroom facilities one-person only restrooms. On the flip side, I would never expect a law telling my son that he MUST use whatever facilities are offered, no matter what the anxiety.

I know that's not the same thing, but since I do agree that being transgendered isn't exactly a conscious choice as much as an internal struggle within their body that they can't control, it's a similar thing.

Sometimes we have to do things in life that are uncomfortable, and my point is that I don't expect society to bend over backwards for my son's issues, and I don't expect society to do the same for transgendered people. And I get it, because I see the struggle every day with my son when we go out and he has to use a public restroom (although he's getting a lot better about not having to be in the stall farthest from the door), but you know, sometimes we just need to face our fears and become as comfortable with them as possible.

That said, if you've gone "all the way" with the surgeries and everything, use the bathroom that matches your new tackle. If not, the restroom should match your tackle, not your clothing. Pretty simple logic, IMO. Just don't expect the state to mandate anything one way or the other.



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 09:31 PM
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originally posted by: argentus
a reply to: Sargeras


Really?

Just like a gay couple wouldn't intentionally go to the only baker out of dozens in town that won't make a gay wedding cake?

Of course people will silly!

Were you born litteraly last night?


Ask yourself this: Is your situation the rule or an exception? Put another way, do stories that you read about people pushing the edge of things to make a point represent the majority of their group, or just a few? Maybe a better question is, why should I care? People make a stand where they choose, same as you or me. I sure as hell don't feel subject to anyone else's approval.

Rhetorical question I know, but I'm nearly 60.


20-30 years ago, it was the exception, today.... It is a rule.

60, I can't wait, that is the beginning of the " I just don't give a damn what you think " years.

And rightfully so!!

You have worked loved and experienced much, it is time for it to be about you!



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 09:35 PM
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originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: onehuman

Let me preface my comment with this--I am getting ordained in order to officiate a wedding between two gay friends this summer. I hang out on their front porch nearly every weekend, drinking with them, their (and my) gay and straight friends, and even one full-on transgendered woman (got all of the surgeries and hormone treatments and everything) name "Coyote."

I have absolutely no biases against the LGBT community or its "members."

But here's my issue with the whole "bathroom law" problem--I'm pretty much sick and tired of so much bending over backward for such a minority of people. In reality, the amount of people who are truly transgendered in our nation falls at well less than one percent of the population. I'm guess (although an exact number is never agreed upon) even closer to one percent of one percent. That's 1/10,000 people, and we have states making laws that affect--negatively or positively--this group of people.

Why do we need laws for this? This is one of those situations where we must ask, what is the lesser of two evils, having 1/10,000 people possibly uncomfortable with using a public restroom, or have dramatically more people (according to polls, anyway) who are uncomfortable with these people using a public restroom that doesn't match the "tackle" with which they were born?

Here's the thing--I agree that most people either don't even pay attention to others in the bathroom with them or won't even notice if a trans-gendered person walked into the bathroom, but I also agree that this issue dramatically affects some non-TG people more than TG people (when going by total number of people affected).

We live in a society, and part of living in society is that we make legislative decisions that, in general, have the best outcome for the most people possible. I'm not convinced that these types of laws do that.

Take my son, for example. He has Asperger's Syndrome and has always had very high anxiety with using public bathrooms at all--no matter how clean or private that they are--but especially one's that have minimal privacy. But he has been forced to deal with that reality in life, and I don't think that private businesses should be forced to make all bathroom accommodate those with anxiety like my son by, let's say, making all bathroom facilities one-person only restrooms. On the flip side, I would never expect a law telling my son that he MUST use whatever facilities are offered, no matter what the anxiety.

I know that's not the same thing, but since I do agree that being transgendered isn't exactly a conscious choice as much as an internal struggle within their body that they can't control, it's a similar thing.

Sometimes we have to do things in life that are uncomfortable, and my point is that I don't expect society to bend over backwards for my son's issues, and I don't expect society to do the same for transgendered people. And I get it, because I see the struggle every day with my son when we go out and he has to use a public restroom (although he's getting a lot better about not having to be in the stall farthest from the door), but you know, sometimes we just need to face our fears and become as comfortable with them as possible.

That said, if you've gone "all the way" with the surgeries and everything, use the bathroom that matches your new tackle. If not, the restroom should match your tackle, not your clothing. Pretty simple logic, IMO. Just don't expect the state to mandate anything one way or the other.


Seconded!



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 10:53 PM
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a reply to: Sargeras





This is not including the obvious fact that there are a lot of messed up people that would love it if men could enter women's bathrooms locker rooms and showers without reprisals.


That is part of the point I was making. These new laws are far reaching and go well beyond someone taking a whizz.

In the city where I work (and thank goodness I don't live there) the new law that was adopted indicates that restrooms AND locker rooms AND showers in ALL public facilities are open for anyone that IDENTIFIES as _________.

In a (maybe) strange twist... It's not the truly Trans people I'm worried about. It's the straight pervs that concern me.

Case in point: A few years ago I was part of a project that erected prefabricated modular elevated restrooms (which was in response to the damage caused by hurricane Sandy). In my opinion, the design was terrible in that the ADA walkways essentially allowed males to walk (basically) THROUGHT the women's room to reach the men's room (and vice versa).

Most locations were fine but in the rougher parts of town, after the facilities were opened, on any given summer day you would find a half dozen or so pervs/maniacs/weirdos hanging around the platform that was in many ways "inside" the women's room.

The laws that are being passed essentially gives permission for THESE people to enter the restrooms outright (as long as they remember to claim, "I IDENTIFY as female.")

And I thought those women were being harassed as it is.... I'm saddened to say that they ain't seen nothing yet.


edit on 21-4-2016 by eluryh22 because: (no reason given)




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