Transgender MMA Fighter Destroys Female Opponent

Freija, I take it as a no, on being able to read the rest of that study from 1997, eh?

Also, nothing has been able to dismiss what I presented, not even the segment of the study you posted.

Continue on without me, I'll leave you guys to your echo chamber.

Goosey out.

a reply to: Lysergic
Well, no. I have that paper in the form of a 9 page PDF so it is impractical to share it and as you pointed out, it isn't exactly up to date. I have other materials from the Endocrine Society that support the same conclusions but it is six years old, a new revision is coming out any day and it is a 40 page PDF.

Both papers support your contention, more or less. Loss of bone mass/density is minimized with the proper monitoring and balance of hormone treatment. The degree of performance advantage though is debatable. I have no particular thoughts on the matter that haven't already been expressed.

This is going to DESTROY the sport of women's fighting, if allowed to continue. Based on raw physiology alone, transsexuals will take over the sport. Girls' athletics will be sidelined by men's sports, even more than they already are and always have been. Girls will end up potentially forced off of their own teams at all levels of all sports, or face a much greater risk of injury. Liberal schools could even start to let boys who "identify" as female play on the girls' teams. Even though they're an extremely small percentage of the overall population, transsexuals would quickly make up the top elite of women's events. And like it or not, a large portion of the audience of events such as women's fighting is comprised of men who like to look at attractive young women. Heterosexual men will never want to watch transsexuals fight for the same reason they'd watch women fight, regardless of how tolerant they are of eccentric folks on a daily level.

She is average in size for a woman and her muscle mass does not test outside the range for females. The women she defeats may be looking for an excuse for their defeat. Many doctors have looked at her and determined she does not have a physical advantage not attributed to her training dedication. She is an interesting person. Get to know her and perhaps you will change your mind.

This is a comment from the article. A lot of transgender people take hormones and have surgeries in order to make themselves more feminine. This means that they might as well be women, even when things like muscle mass and size are taken into account.

Think of it this way - let's say a female MMA fighter decided to turn into a man and took hormones to that affect. Should he fight with the females still?

Granted, there could be transgender people in the early stages of transformation that are still similar to their birth gender. The realistic solution is to have a doctor decide which gender is most appropriate for competition in each case.

a reply to: Freija

I honestly don't want to make you go through the waste of energy of doing that, not being an ass, but I mean from what I read the paper didn't exactly disprove me, thats why I had pondered reading it in its entirety.

See ya on the flipside

originally posted by: darkbake

She is average in size for a woman and her muscle mass does not test outside the range for females. The women she defeats may be looking for an excuse for their defeat. Many doctors have looked at her and determined she does not have a physical advantage not attributed to her training dedication. She is an interesting person. Get to know her and perhaps you will change your mind.

This is a comment from the article. A lot of transgender people take hormones and have surgeries in order to make themselves more feminine. This means that they might as well be women, even when things like muscle mass and size are taken into account.

Think of it this way - let's say a female MMA fighter decided to turn into a man and took hormones to that affect. Should he fight with the females still?

Granted, there could be transgender people in the early stages of transformation that are still similar to their birth gender. The realistic solution is to have a doctor decide which gender is most appropriate for competition in each case.

Just cause someone looks weak doesn't mean they are. There's a lot more to strength than appearance.

a reply to: GoShredAK

Even stepping on a tiny Lego can make the toughest man cry....

a reply to: darkbake

No, the realistic solution is to have a transgendered division so they can go beat on one another there.

Otherwise, born with a pecker, fight men, if not, fight women.

People are making this entirely more complicated than it needs to be due to PC culture.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: GoShredAK

Even stepping on a tiny Lego can make the toughest man cry....

LOL

Now there's a true statement from experience.

originally posted by: GoShredAK

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015
a reply to: GoShredAK

It looks like random random violence to anyone that doesn't understand the discipline behind it, the respect you give your opponent for making you better at your game, becoming a better person through adversity and pushing your limitations by conquering fear and the good people you meet in the gym who all want to help you become the best human being you can possibly be in every area of your life.

It's a deep and rewarding pursuit that not many will ever understand.

Oss.

Amen. Worded that far better than I. Good post.

Debating the virtue of the sport is a separate topic IMO. For what it is worth...What the layman misses is that it is a strategic game of chess at high speed, a spiritual practice and a physical challenge all wrapped into one. I was always at my most peaceful self when I was in the ring.

He/she should not be allowed to fight in the woman's category. Growing your hair long, wearing makeup, wearing woman's clothes, getting breasts, removing your penis and taking hormones does NOT make you a woman. It also doesn't change the fact you have the skeletal frame and muscle makeup of a man. It is not and will never be a fair fight.

originally posted by: ZenTam
He/she should not be allowed to fight in the woman's category. Growing your hair long, wearing makeup, wearing woman's clothes, getting breasts, removing your penis and taking hormones does NOT make you a woman. It also doesn't change the fact you have the skeletal frame and muscle makeup of a man. It is not and will never be a fair fight.

You haven't read anything or any links provided in this thread, have you?

Just throwing in your opinion.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ZenTam
He/she should not be allowed to fight in the woman's category. Growing your hair long, wearing makeup, wearing woman's clothes, getting breasts, removing your penis and taking hormones does NOT make you a woman. It also doesn't change the fact you have the skeletal frame and muscle makeup of a man. It is not and will never be a fair fight.

You haven't read anything or any links provided in this thread, have you?

Just throwing in your opinion.

Pot meet kettle.

originally posted by: Lysergic

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ZenTam
He/she should not be allowed to fight in the woman's category. Growing your hair long, wearing makeup, wearing woman's clothes, getting breasts, removing your penis and taking hormones does NOT make you a woman. It also doesn't change the fact you have the skeletal frame and muscle makeup of a man. It is not and will never be a fair fight.

You haven't read anything or any links provided in this thread, have you?

Just throwing in your opinion.

Pot meet kettle.

I know you try to be very clever.

But, please take your pail elsewhere.

a reply to: darkbake

Generally, such things are illegal in sports for a reason because they are intended to give one an unfair advantage. They are called performance enhancers. So it doesn't matter to me whether you have spent most of your formative years maturing with the hormones and then decided to add female hormones at the last second or spent your formative years with female hormones and are now adding male ones in an attempt to be another gender.

The effect on your physical self is not going to be unlike the effect you would have with performance enhancers in the mix which is illegal.

I hate to say it but I think transgenders either need to form their own leagues or avoid/be disbarred from competitive sports. Rec leagues and the like where we are talking co-ed, friendly style comp would be another matter. There really isn't any way to fairly measure out what the physical body is going to be after what is done to it.

a reply to: Annee

Why?
So you can continue to be disingenuous in peace?

You had not obviously read the majority of the thread when you decided to chime in, just scroll back a few pages. Yet you assume others haven't and attempt to call them on that, hmm.

Pot meeting kettle....
I'd say it was pretty accurate description.

Might need to get back in your huddle.



PS: How about those studies that were going to be easy to find?
I know the both of you are hovering over this thread, must eat you guys up to not be able to prove me wrong.

OK, so a man decides he identifies as a woman and takes hormones to look more feminine. That doesn't necessarily make him weaker. It certainly won't change fast twitch muscle fiber, which men generally have more of. It also won't affect tendons, ligaments, and bone structure, all of which play a part in delivering a powerful punch.

Some here have suggested that a doctor should make a determination prior to the fight in regards to which gender a fighter most closely resembles. So if a fighter who was born a man becomes 51% female, according to that particular doctor, he can fight other females? Yes, that is cutting it close, closer than any reputable doctor would ever estimate a gender issue, but it was done to make a point.

What it all comes down to is that somewhere along the way someone decided we all have to respect the gender choice people make, but only to a point because then it will cause problems. And that is the main dysfunction with anything that tries to legislate equality. When you force a pre-determined equality on society you must, by default, take rights away from someone else. In this case, female fighters have lost the right to gender specific competition. Female fighters can either fight men in the men's competition, or, they can fight men who identify as women in the women's competition. Yeah, thats fair for everyone...

a reply to: Annee

I did read it and it doesn't take a doctor to figure it out. Actually you don't even need to read it to figure it out, the title of the article explains it very clearly. It's not a fair fight and it shouldn't be allowed. That's not bashing or hating on transgender folks, its just the facts of human nature. In your head you can feel all you want that your a woman but it doesn't change the fact you were born into a mans body. I think female athletes should be outraged that this is allowed to happen. And men who have transgender into woman should be ashamed of themselves. They know dam well they have a physical advantage.

And the purpose of ATS is for people to discus and give their opinions on all sorts of matters and topics. So yes, I did give my opinion...lol

a reply to: ketsuko

I agree. To make it a fair fight perhaps they should have their own division. Meet the new MMA, with mens, women and transgender catagories.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
OK, so a man decides he identifies as a woman and takes hormones to look more feminine. That doesn't necessarily make him weaker. It certainly won't change fast twitch muscle fiber, which men generally have more of. It also won't affect tendons, ligaments, and bone structure, all of which play a part in delivering a powerful punch.

Some here have suggested that a doctor should make a determination prior to the fight in regards to which gender a fighter most closely resembles. So if a fighter who was born a man becomes 51% female, according to that particular doctor, he can fight other females? Yes, that is cutting it close, closer than any reputable doctor would ever estimate a gender issue, but it was done to make a point.

What it all comes down to is that somewhere along the way someone decided we all have to respect the gender choice people make, but only to a point because then it will cause problems. And that is the main dysfunction with anything that tries to legislate equality. When you force a pre-determined equality on society you must, by default, take rights away from someone else. In this case, female fighters have lost the right to gender specific competition. Female fighters can either fight men in the men's competition, or, they can fight men who identify as women in the women's competition. Yeah, thats fair for everyone...

Prolonged use of hormones WILL weaken you if you are taking the opposite to what your body produces.