God Did It! The rest is post modern chatter!

originally posted by: edmc^2
Your conclusion is wrong!
You didn't consider the context and the subject matter.
In addition, you're introducing something that is foreign to the Bible - the teaching of Predestination.

What? Are we reading the same Bible? Predestination is in the Bible, God determining certain things to occurr ahead of time is mentioned in the Bible several times: 1 Corintians 2:7, Ephesians 1:11, Ephesians 1:5, Romans 8:29-30 and many more.

And just because I am now an Agnostic do not assume I have not studied the Bible, because I did, for many years. You are so arrogant when you reply, which is funny considering you say you follow the teachings of Jesus.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: edmc^2

So all of this was just to somehow "prove" science is wrong?

Nope! It's the other way around - it's showing how true science is proving the Bible to be accurate.

Matter of fact, we're just catching up to the Bible.

"In the beginning" - is as accurate as what science had recently discovered. That the universe and the earth had a beginning.

a reply to: edmc^2

Oh how very Abrahamic centric of you

True science is discovering what there is in the physical and natural universe, not the supernatural.

Exploring supernatural things is the work of spirituality and the occult.

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: edmc^2

So all of this was just to somehow "prove" science is wrong?

Nope! It's the other way around - it's showing how true science is proving the Bible to be accurate.

Which the bible hasn't proved any of.

Matter of fact, we're just catching up to the Bible.

Really? So we've got slavery, stoning and racism to look forward to?

"In the beginning" - is as accurate as what science had recently discovered. That the universe and the earth had a beginning.

"The beginning" has been spoken about way before the bible was even thought of. If you're on about the biblical beginning, that's false by using all of the available data we have at the moment.

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: edmc^2
Your conclusion is wrong!
You didn't consider the context and the subject matter.
In addition, you're introducing something that is foreign to the Bible - the teaching of Predestination.

What? Are we reading the same Bible? Predestination is in the Bible, God determining certain things to occurr ahead of time is mentioned in the Bible several times: 1 Corintians 2:7, Ephesians 1:11, Ephesians 1:5, Romans 8:29-30 and many more.

And just because I am now an Agnostic do not assume I have not studied the Bible, because I did, for many years. You are so arrogant when you reply, which is funny considering you say you follow the teachings of Jesus.

In what way am I arrogant?

To the contrary, I haven't even scratched the cover of the Bible so to speak.

I'm just beginning to understand it.

So if Predestination is in the Bible, why then are we encouraged to do good and stay away from badness?

Why would driving to the opposite side of the freeway will kill you but not the right way?

But let's take a look at one of the scriptures you cited:


[1Co 2:7 NLT] "No, the wisdom we speak of is the mystery of God--his plan that was previously hidden, even though he made it for our ultimate glory before the world began."

This verse talks about God's Wisdom made secret being revealed to those who are approved by God - it had nothing to do with predestination.

If you don't believe me, read the rest of the verses:

[1Co 2:7 NLT] "No, the wisdom we speak of is the mystery of God--his plan that was previously hidden, even though he made it for our ultimate glory before the world began."
[1Co 2:13 NLT] "When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit's words to explain spiritual truths."
[1Co 2:14 NLT] "But people who aren't spiritual can't receive these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can't understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means."
[1Co 2:15 NLT] "Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others."
[1Co 2:16 NLT] "For, "Who can know the LORD's thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him?"But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ."

In any case, if that's what you believe then more power to you.

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: edmc^2
Your conclusion is wrong!
You didn't consider the context and the subject matter.
In addition, you're introducing something that is foreign to the Bible - the teaching of Predestination.

What? Are we reading the same Bible? Predestination is in the Bible, God determining certain things to occurr ahead of time is mentioned in the Bible several times: 1 Corintians 2:7, Ephesians 1:11, Ephesians 1:5, Romans 8:29-30 and many more.

And just because I am now an Agnostic do not assume I have not studied the Bible, because I did, for many years. You are so arrogant when you reply, which is funny considering you say you follow the teachings of Jesus.

In what way am I arrogant?

To the contrary, I haven't even scratched the cover of the Bible so to speak.

I'm just beginning to understand it.

So if Predestination is in the Bible, why then are we encouraged to do good and stay away from badness?

Why would driving to the opposite side of the freeway will kill you but not the right way?

But let's take a look at one of the scriptures you cited:


[1Co 2:7 NLT] "No, the wisdom we speak of is the mystery of God--his plan that was previously hidden, even though he made it for our ultimate glory before the world began."

This verse talks about God's Wisdom made secret being revealed to those who are approved by God - it had nothing to do with predestination.

If you don't believe me, read the rest of the verses:

[1Co 2:7 NLT] "No, the wisdom we speak of is the mystery of God--his plan that was previously hidden, even though he made it for our ultimate glory before the world began."
[1Co 2:13 NLT] "When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit's words to explain spiritual truths."
[1Co 2:14 NLT] "But people who aren't spiritual can't receive these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can't understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means."
[1Co 2:15 NLT] "Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others."
[1Co 2:16 NLT] "For, "Who can know the LORD's thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him?"But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ."

In any case, if that's what you believe then more power to you.

none of this proves that "god did it". its you using material to refer back to the same material and presenting the resulting cycle as "self evidence". then you say "well if god didnt do it then why (insert poorly conceived line of questioning)" and it all just loops back around to square one.

originally posted by: edmc^2
In what way am I arrogant?

Re-read your reply to me and you'll see.

So if Predestination is in the Bible, why then are we encouraged to do good and stay away from badness?

Because the Bible is full of contradictions.

But let's take a look at one of the scriptures you cited:
[1Co 2:7 NLT] "No, the wisdom we speak of is the mystery of God--his plan that was previously hidden, even though he made it for our ultimate glory before the world began."

This verse talks about God's Wisdom made secret being revealed to those who are approved by God - it had nothing to do with predestination.

We must be reading a different Bible......

-1 Corinthians 2:7: No, we declare God's wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
-Ephesians 1:11: In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will
-Ephesians 1:5: he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will
-Romans 8:29-30: For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters

Considering the context, the Bible tells us that God destined and predestined lots of thing (wisdom, salvation etc).

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: edmc^2
In what way am I arrogant?

Re-read your reply to me and you'll see.

So if Predestination is in the Bible, why then are we encouraged to do good and stay away from badness?

Because the Bible is full of contradictions.

But let's take a look at one of the scriptures you cited:
[1Co 2:7 NLT] "No, the wisdom we speak of is the mystery of God--his plan that was previously hidden, even though he made it for our ultimate glory before the world began."

This verse talks about God's Wisdom made secret being revealed to those who are approved by God - it had nothing to do with predestination.

We must be reading a different Bible......

-1 Corinthians 2:7: No, we declare God's wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
-Ephesians 1:11: In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will
-Ephesians 1:5: he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will
-Romans 8:29-30: For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters

Considering the context, the Bible tells us that God destined and predestined lots of thing (wisdom, salvation etc).

its a lot like sending the crew to prison for killing the protagonist in a movie you wrote and directed.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
its a lot like sending the crew to prison for killing the protagonist in a movie you wrote and directed.

hahaha So true!
But the Bible is full of contradictions, like 'Get wisdom, that's the principal thing' (Prov4:7) but just before you do it God changed his mind and said 'For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.' (Ec1:18).... so... God.... made up your mind yet?
lol

a reply to: edmc^2

Seriously? Adding extra meaning again as usual. The word embryo wasn't used. Wow the writer of this passage knew that babies had bones when they were born. Not really an amazing thing.

a reply to: Joecanada11

Gotta love those fallacy of equivocation style arguments right?

a reply to: Noinden

That passage doesn't even come close to describing the formation of an embryo into a fully formed infant. I wonder what amazingly accurate scripture we will get to debunk next. So far it's "made my bones" and "earth hangs on nothing" and he just ignores the dozens of other scriptures that members have brought up that conflict with science and or scripture itself.

a reply to: Agartha

Neither of those are God speaking...
In proverbs why is wisdom refered to in the feminine?
Also neither is connected to one another just because the word is wisdom...
The assumption you made is in other words taken out of context...
But more importantly neither is God speaking...

When it comes to God creating people with defects I'd have to first say God did not create them to be that way... They had a mother and father...

I blame the fact that mankind was created in a perfected form... And that because of sin that perfection was lost... Mankind was no longer immune to death...

And so was now susceptable to all things that could now not only kill us but also prone to all things that were imperfect...

This is the same for all of creation...
It even falls into line with previous arguments about all vegetation being edible in genisis... I say this because perhaps all things existed in this perfected state before original sin... And so afterwards nothing was left undone because something foreign to all of creation was introduced to it...

But if I am to introduce my own thought on this matter...

I tend to believe that it makes more sense to assume creation itself existed in a different dimension altogether...
And that when it was altered because of original sin it could no longer exist in that dimesional realm of perfection...
The forces that previously held creation together... basically repelled it and ejected it into this dimension through a tiny rip in space and time... And that all things were ejected from perfection into this new flawed dimension...

When it comes to predestination because we have free will we are therefore the ones responsible for our destination... However it is not beyond God to know what your destination is before you for he is unbound by time...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
I blame the fact that mankind was created in a perfected form... And that because of sin that perfection was lost... Mankind was no longer immune to death.

Once mankind became a heavy matter being lost its ability to access its immortal consciousness; and is in the process of relearning what immortal means (the soul transcends the body) as is eternal/everlasting.

5StarOracle: When it comes to predestination because we have free will we are therefore the ones responsible for our destination... However it is not beyond God to know what your destination is before you for he is unbound by time...

You do not have free will because you decided your predestination before you incarnated as a human. You wrote the script of this life you are living. You are front stage center the STAR of your life. It is set in stone; you deviate you come back to do it all over again. This was your "fix it" (prior lives transgressions) opportunity. Not much time left to redux the redo.

a reply to: Joecanada11

No we also had that 12 000 times 12 is 144 000, because multiplication is science right? *watches tumble weed roll by*

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I kind of agree with what you said but not fully...
I agree we are no longer truly in the presence of God
and because we are removed from his presence we do not simply know him...

I do believe we choose our lives to an extent that life is like a play that we chose our vessels that we chose what time line we would like to exist in and some of the things we wanted to experience...
And that this too was a form of a test...
Except I do not believe I am God...

a reply to: Noinden

Mathematics may not be science but you need it for a lot of it...

A scientific comparision for predestination would be your genes...

a reply to: 5StarOracle

I also need a language (english in this case) for that to work, so is language a science too?