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God Did It! The rest is post modern chatter!

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posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 12:22 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: whereislogic
Oh, every real archeologist, thinks the "salt pillars" and such were the origin of the biblical story. They saw the ruins of the cities, salt pillars and such, then made up a cool story about their God doing it.

Not that the story is an account of what actually happened.,


"Salt pillars"? Who are you quoting? According to the first video about Sodom & Gomorrah, the ashes are made up of Calcium Sulphate and the brimstone balls are well...mostly sulphur.I'm wondering if you even watched the video.

Btw, regarding your usage of the word "theory" in your previous comment, asking people for their opinion and what they might know about the finds in question is not the same as presenting a theory. Therefore it's also very unlikely that I even used the word in my commentary in this thread before this comment.

You're so eager to demonstrate 2 Timothy 4:3,4 that it's almost as if you didn't even notice how I phrased my first comment to indicate the above request for people's opinions other than...(something I also specified in slightly more detail).

2 Timothy 4:3,4:

"....do not put up with..."

Another bible verse uses a phrase that says 'not open to any agreement, fierce, headstrong, puffed up with pride', etc. Your attitude is really shining through.
edit on 22-4-2016 by whereislogic because: addition




posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 05:34 AM
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It's delusional to think what's wrote in the bible is factual, show evidence God created it just like every other topic on ATS requires evidence to back up the claims.



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: LifeisGrand

Great post. Mine in this thread follows the same logic. I like the way you think!



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 10:40 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Thanks for the reply MOjOm.
I have an answer for why that an eternal consciousness created a universe that took eons to cool, shape, and support life. It's not provable, but really nothing when we're speaking of the uncaused cause really is... But I would argue it's logical.
-Clearly if there is a creator he created the laws of the universe. Thermodynamics, motion, etc.
-God is not bound by time and space-he created them
-thus, allowing the universe he intended to form develop over billions and billions of years would not negatively impact him. He wasn't waiting around, he exists outside of time.
- The universe forming this way, however, is consistent with the laws he created. If I'm not mistaken, the formation of the universe has been and will continue to be pivotal in the progression of science. Imagine if our understanding of Gravity was inconsistent with what we could tell about the universe's formation!

Where did God gain the information to create anything at all? He didn't need to "gain" any information. There's a reason God is called Yahweh... "I am." "He is." "I will be."
Does it honestly make sense to ask that question as an argument when you ignore the question, "where did the non-conscious universe gain any its content or properties? Where did it gain its laws, energy, matter, or forces? Where did it gain whatever has led it to its current state? Why did it lead to life?" To be honest, I struggled to word that, so hopefully that made sense.




posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 11:02 AM
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originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: whereislogic
Oh, every real archeologist, thinks the "salt pillars" and such were the origin of the biblical story. They saw the ruins of the cities, salt pillars and such, then made up a cool story about their God doing it.

Not that the story is an account of what actually happened.,


"Salt pillars"? Who are you quoting? According to the first video about Sodom & Gomorrah, the ashes are made up of Calcium Sulphate and the brimstone balls are well...mostly sulphur.I'm wondering if you even watched the video.

Btw, regarding your usage of the word "theory" in your previous comment, asking people for their opinion and what they might know about the finds in question is not the same as presenting a theory. Therefore it's also very unlikely that I even used the word in my commentary in this thread before this comment.

You're so eager to demonstrate 2 Timothy 4:3,4 that it's almost as if you didn't even notice how I phrased my first comment to indicate the above request for people's opinions other than...(something I also specified in slightly more detail).

2 Timothy 4:3,4:

"....do not put up with..."

Another bible verse uses a phrase that says 'not open to any agreement, fierce, headstrong, puffed up with pride', etc. Your attitude is really shining through.






I'm not talking about your silly video...
With a bunch of characters who are the laughing stock of both academia and their own churches....



I'm talking about actual archaeologists, who think that ancient people from that region, stumbled across the ruins of those cities (that were destroyed by an invading force) and the "salt pillars" (which are a well known geological phenomenon) which vaguely resembled human shapes, and created that story to explain what they did not have the knowledge to explain...

He'll look at the biblical account...

The Sodom and Gomorrah story is commonly referenced as an example of the bibles inconsistency. It's a total comtridiction compared to the divine being described in other chapters....the God in that story isn't all knowing, nor all powerful. He has to ask Abraham (I think Abraham) if what he(God) has heard is true. Then Abraham convinces an all knowing, all powerful being to change his mind.....



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 11:18 AM
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originally posted by: Achilles92x
a reply to: mOjOm

Thanks for the reply MOjOm.
I have an answer for why that an eternal consciousness created a universe that took eons to cool, shape, and support life. It's not provable, but really nothing when we're speaking of the uncaused cause really is... But I would argue it's logical.
-Clearly if there is a creator he created the laws of the universe. Thermodynamics, motion, etc.
-God is not bound by time and space-he created them
-thus, allowing the universe he intended to form develop over billions and billions of years would not negatively impact him. He wasn't waiting around, he exists outside of time.
- The universe forming this way, however, is consistent with the laws he created. If I'm not mistaken, the formation of the universe has been and will continue to be pivotal in the progression of science. Imagine if our understanding of Gravity was inconsistent with what we could tell about the universe's formation!

Where did God gain the information to create anything at all? He didn't need to "gain" any information. There's a reason God is called Yahweh... "I am." "He is." "I will be."
Does it honestly make sense to ask that question as an argument when you ignore the question, "where did the non-conscious universe gain any its content or properties? Where did it gain its laws, energy, matter, or forces? Where did it gain whatever has led it to its current state? Why did it lead to life?" To be honest, I struggled to word that, so hopefully that made sense.








while I agree that a timeless God, could wait out billions of years the universe took to form. That is not the logical conclusion. Because an all powerful God shouldn't need to wait. He could wait, but that would be horribly inefficient.

So because the all powerful God described in the bible could do something is irrelevant when talking about what's logical,for 2 reasons.

A: there is nothing he can't do. You can't say a specific thing is logical for him to do, when there is nothing you would agree that he can't do.

B: the logical decision is almost always considered the most efficient decision, and waiting billions of years, when you don't have to is the opposite of efficient.



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 11:53 AM
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Actually that was an excellent point...and that and " science says the universe has a begining and the bible said god created it. So that's proof God created the universe" those are lierally the cruxes of your argument.


You can't use "something can't come from nothing" then claim God came from nothing....


Also, you didn't even attemp a counterpoint....just "I don't like your question mr. Rant.."



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 12:05 PM
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originally posted by: SocietyIsRotten
a reply to: edmc^2

People for some reason are hung up on creation vs revolution

Creation through evolution

I knew that when I was 18


Problem is the two are not compatible. One requires guidance and intelligence while the other is just dumb luck.



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 12:44 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
Actually that was an excellent point...and that and " science says the universe has a begining and the bible said god created it. So that's proof God created the universe" those are lierally the cruxes of your argument.


You can't use "something can't come from nothing" then claim God came from nothing....


Also, you didn't even attemp a counterpoint....just "I don't like your question mr. Rant.."


Quite to the contrary, I've answered the question multiple times already but for some reason Mr. Rant can't seem to see the logic in it.

In any case, let's discuss.




You can't use "something can't come from nothing" then claim God came from nothing....


Let's break it down:

It's a fact mathematically AND scientifically that "something can't come from nothing".

This axiom holds true from a PHYSICAL standpoint. It holds true particularly with the creation of the universe. The "singularity" (big-bang") theory confirms this to be so. Through background radiation, we can trace back in time the beginning of the universe. 13-14 billion years ago (according to findings) the universe was born.

That is a fact!

E = mc2 gives us an idea how matter and energy can transform to either form.

That energy can be transformed into matter and matter can be transformed into energy.

But we know that matter is not eternal neither energy. So what then is source of the raw material that became the universe?

Again, it's NOT nothing because, nothing - absolute nothing - can not exist.

Thus there MUST be then by necessity - something that ALWAYS existed. Something that had no beginning and no end must be the ultimate source of everything.

Question is - who or what is this "something"?

Is it intelligent? Is it alive? or is it just "something" that always existed but without any intelligence.

The latter is not logical. For how could "something with no intelligence" create something with intelligence?

The ONLY logical conclusion is - the "something" is not a "thing" but SOMEONE Alive possessing great intelligence and power.

If E = mc2 requires a great mind to formulate, then what about the universe with all it's wonders?

The movements of galaxies, the movements stars and planets - show a great deal of balance. An intricate cosmic dance that shows an amazing cohesion. Some call this cohesion - the fine tuning.

The four fundamental forces that holds the universe together show a great deal of intelligence! Yet many here attribute this to dumb luck.

Mr. Rant's answer? IDK.

Now how logical is that?



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: edmc^2

MAN created god lots of them.



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 02:38 PM
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I'm perfectly willing to accept that "God" did it, just as soon as somebody can clearly define this mysterious person / entity / thing to the extent that it makes logical sense.



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 02:41 PM
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originally posted by: skyblueworld
It's delusional to think what's wrote in the bible is factual, show evidence God created it just like every other topic on ATS requires evidence to back up the claims.


yet when irrefutable evidence is presented it's relegated to just claims and semantics.

Case in point:

Only very recently, during the advent of modern science, we proved beyond any reasonable doubt that the earth is floating in space. By sending men to outer space and sending satellites and space probes we finally confirmed this to be a fact.



Yet, thousands of years ago, in poetic terms, a nomadic man wrote -

"He...hangs the earth on nothing." - Job 20:7 (ESV).
or "He...hangs the earth on empty space" (GNT).

Now how could a nomadic man write something that was just recently confirmed?

How did he know that the earth (as he understood during his time period) was "hanging upon nothing"?

Was he more advance in knowledge of space than we are?

Inquiring minds want to know.



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 02:47 PM
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originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: edmc^2

MAN created god lots of them.



Sure but man's creation of gods are just that - created gods.

The one who created man is not a creation but the Creator.

One who has no beginning and no end. Always is Always was.


So - where was man before the "big bang"?



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 02:54 PM
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originally posted by: Blue Shift
I'm perfectly willing to accept that "God" did it, just as soon as somebody can clearly define this mysterious person / entity / thing to the extent that it makes logical sense.


If you're asking in a physical way, it can't be done because our reality is material while God's reality - is immaterial.

Hard to describe something that has no physical dimension into 2 or 3 dimension.

Try if you may to explain the color of the sky to a person born blind. All you can do is a representation of it based on his or her very limited experienced.



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 03:20 PM
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a reply to: edmc^2

Haha haha you are still clinging to the hangs on nothing scripture. Thats not irrefutable evidence of anything. I've stated this before and I'll say it again. Making a statement as vague as that is nothing more than a logical inference.

If I look out at space I see nothing.

Again the earth isn't just hanging. Its not suspended sitting still which is what that scripture infers.

If the scripture read "you Lord who spins the earth in orbit around the Sun " then you may have a case.

But again other scriptures make inference that it is the Sun moving around the earth. We now know the Sun does not move around the earth.



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 03:52 PM
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originally posted by: edmc^2
Problem is the two are not compatible. One requires guidance and intelligence while the other is just dumb luck.


I can't agree with that. Evolution is basically life's ability to adapt over time to an ever changing earth environment. It makes sense for a creator to design life with the ability to adapt. Do you really deny that? Why is it mutually exclusive?



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 04:02 PM
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originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: edmc^2

Haha haha you are still clinging to the hangs on nothing scripture. Thats not irrefutable evidence of anything. I've stated this before and I'll say it again. Making a statement as vague as that is nothing more than a logical inference.

If I look out at space I see nothing.

Again the earth isn't just hanging. Its not suspended sitting still which is what that scripture infers.

If the scripture read "you Lord who spins the earth in orbit around the Sun " then you may have a case.

But again other scriptures make inference that it is the Sun moving around the earth. We now know the Sun does not move around the earth.


OK - let's get into it more and see how far your understanding is.

How do you say what you said in very simple poetic terms using a 4000 year old nomadic language and in a nomadic setting? Either in Old Hebrew or Aramaic language.

"you Lord who spins the earth in orbit around the Sun"

Remember, the Bible writers didn't have the scientific knowledge that we have today or even the knowledge of 200 years ago. Also, the subject is location in space not its orbit or rotation.

So - please do tell.



edit on 22-4-2016 by edmc^2 because: it's - its



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 04:09 PM
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originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: edmc^2
Problem is the two are not compatible. One requires guidance and intelligence while the other is just dumb luck.


I can't agree with that. Evolution is basically life's ability to adapt over time to an ever changing earth environment. It makes sense for a creator to design life with the ability to adapt. Do you really deny that? Why is it mutually exclusive?



Key word is "adapt". We all adapt to our environment. We were created that way.

Evolution on the other hand - in terms of ORIGIN - is incompatible with creation.



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: Joecanada11

You also said:




But again other scriptures make inference that it is the Sun moving around the earth. We now know the Sun does not move around the earth.


Can you please provide the scripture so that we can find out if you're correct?


edit on 22-4-2016 by edmc^2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2016 @ 04:31 PM
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originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: edmc^2
Problem is the two are not compatible. One requires guidance and intelligence while the other is just dumb luck.


I can't agree with that. Evolution is basically life's ability to adapt over time to an ever changing earth environment. It makes sense for a creator to design life with the ability to adapt. Do you really deny that? Why is it mutually exclusive?



Key word is "adapt". We all adapt to our environment. We were created that way.

Evolution on the other hand - in terms of ORIGIN - is incompatible with creation.



Been a long time

Evolution is only incompatible with creation IF one subscribes to YEC... which is not biblical anyways...

So you are incorrect brother




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