President Trump! Thank you for making America Great Again!

originally posted by: BlueAjah
Your solution is that if people want to be lazy they should be able to?

Yes, because they probably have good reasons for it. Also, "to want to do less" (being lazy) is the driving force behind human success. It's the reason we invented machines, for example. Nothing wrong with being lazy.

And those who work hard should be supporting these lazy people? (because..... lazy people deserve to be happy, and hardworking people don't?)

As you wrote yourself: you are very happy to work hard, aren't you? So, don't complain but work hard and be happy, for as long as you still have a job. In the end, the machines will take it away from you anyway. I hope we then will have established a world in which you are not only allowed to survive - but are allowed to lead a happy live, as good as you can.

But maybe you are so indoctrinated that you should work that we must make you part of the army of office workers. You can still pretend to be useful if you are part of that army, where all you do actually is keeping others engaged in a meaningless play of fiddling with meaningless documents in a meaningless virtual world. But hey, they have "a job", don't they, so they are happy...

Sound folks aren't like that: they want to do things of value. Like playing guitar, or making love to the wife, or simply sit in the sun and talk with friends. Or perhaps make somthing beautiful for a friend, or take care of sick people, old people, educate and be educated. And if being able to do that requires some work to be done, well, so be it. But it's not WORK that drives us, it's the pursuit of happiness.

I truly, very much, feel sorry for you. doubt you will ever find happiness with such a bitter, hateful, twisted outlook on life.

Thank you for your compassion, but actually, I'm both quite lazy and quite happy

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: BlueAjah
If you so choose to strive for more, to join the 1%, then you can if you really try, and work hard to gain the skills, or whatever else you need for your particular goal.

You still don't get it do you?

Really - you can work as hard as you want, but if you stay honest, you'll never make it into the upper 1st percent. To get into that, you need to be ruthless. You need to be able and willing to (legally) steal from others.

The decent guy that sets up a business will make a decent living and will help spread wealth around - many decent guys actually earn less then their employed, Kudos to them, but they aren't the top 1 percent. The top 1 percent don't care about anytihing as long as they get more money, more power - and they take great pride in employing just sufficient people, no more, and if they can earn a cent more by making you work harder whilst firing another guy, they will.

It is the accomplishment of doing something that makes you feel good, even if you get paid nothing.

We wholeheartedly agree here.

You can be honest and earn over $615k a year.
Painting broad brushes about the 1% being dishonest and unworthy is nonsense.

It is indeed an accomplishment to achieve something that makes you feel good, but it is only rewarding financially if others are willing to pay for that achievement.

Personally I believe that we reward the wrong kind of hard work and talent. For example a teacher or a nurse are, in my view, incredibly valuable and should be paid more than a person who is good at maths and stats and can earn a lot of money through hrs spent writing trading algorithms, but that is a different argument about the value exchange of hard work, talent and financial compensation.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: BlueAjah
Your solution is that if people want to be lazy they should be able to?

Yes, because they probably have good reasons for it. Also, "to want to do less" (being lazy) is the driving force behind human success. It's the reason we invented machines, for example. Nothing wrong with being lazy.

And those who work hard should be supporting these lazy people? (because..... lazy people deserve to be happy, and hardworking people don't?)

As you wrote yourself: you are very happy to work hard, aren't you? So, don't complain but work hard and be happy, for as long as you still have a job. In the end, the machines will take it away from you anyway. I hope we then will have established a world in which you are not only allowed to survive - but are allowed to lead a happy live, as good as you can.

But maybe you are so indoctrinated that you should work that we must make you part of the army of office workers. You can still pretend to be useful if you are part of that army, where all you do actually is keeping others engaged in a meaningless play of fiddling with meaningless documents in a meaningless virtual world. But hey, they have "a job", don't they, so they are happy...

Sound folks aren't like that: they want to do things of value. Like playing guitar, or making love to the wife, or simply sit in the sun and talk with friends. Or perhaps make somthing beautiful for a friend, or take care of sick people, old people, educate and be educated. And if being able to do that requires some work to be done, well, so be it. But it's not WORK that drives us, it's the pursuit of happiness.

I truly, very much, feel sorry for you. doubt you will ever find happiness with such a bitter, hateful, twisted outlook on life.

Thank you for your compassion, but actually, I'm both quite lazy, quite healthy and quite happy

It's fine to be lazy and happy, just don't cry about other people being rich from hard work.
The world you want doesn't exist. It's a nice fantasy to be able to sit in the sun, drink wine, etc.. but there is no social or economic model that exists that will make that a reality for you, so you have choices you have to make.

a reply to: UKTruth

No, not really. To be wealthy and successful you have to do what wealthy and successful people do.

What do they do?

I honestly haven't studied them that much....YET (I'm getting there though). But I do know that if you want something you don't have, you have to do something you haven't done.

The fact that people can become billionaires means it is possible. If you study their habits, their mindset, their way of thinking, seeing the world and acting in it...you might be able to achieve some form of personal success for yourself.

And I'm not talking about reading biographies written by billionaires or self-help books. No one is going to be dumb enough to actually put any concrete steps to success in anything like that. It's like a famous recipe. If you want to make sure your cookies always taste the best, you leave out an ingredient (like salt) before you share the recipe.

Everyone else will still get cookies, but they just won't taste as good as yours. People will scratch their heads and try everything else under the sun. They'll purify their water, change brands of flour, buy a new oven for goodness sake and even change brands of butter...but they'll never think that just maybe a critical, yet simple element like salt might be all they're missing.

There's a recipe for success, but I think one has to learn it themselves. I don't think you can just hand it to someone. And I think that is what keeps it from being handed to others. Those that are successful on their own had to discover that recipe for themselves, and don't want to just give it away .... they want other people to discover it like they did.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: UKTruth

No, not really. To be wealthy and successful you have to do what wealthy and successful people do.

What do they do?

I honestly haven't studied them that much....YET (I'm getting there though). But I do know that if you want something you don't have, you have to do something you haven't done.

The fact that people can become billionaires means it is possible. If you study their habits, their mindset, their way of thinking, seeing the world and acting in it...you might be able to achieve some form of personal success for yourself.

And I'm not talking about reading biographies written by billionaires or self-help books. No one is going to be dumb enough to actually put any concrete steps to success in anything like that. It's like a famous recipe. If you want to make sure your cookies always taste the best, you leave out an ingredient (like salt) before you share the recipe.

Everyone else will still get cookies, but they just won't taste as good as yours. People will scratch their heads and try everything else under the sun. They'll purify their water, change brands of flour, buy a new oven for goodness sake and even change brands of butter...but they'll never think that just maybe a critical, yet simple element like salt might be all they're missing.

There's a recipe for success, but I think one has to learn it themselves. I don't think you can just hand it to someone. And I think that is what keeps it from being handed to others. Those that are successful on their own had to discover that recipe for themselves, and don't want to just give it away .... they want other people to discover it like they did.

Sure , but you can be an honest, smart, hard working individual to succeed. In fact two of those three I would suggest are prerequisites (apart from that awful group of elites right at the top who have used influence and corruption).
I'd also point out that you don't even need your own business to be in the top 1%. There are plenty of people who work for others that earn over $615k a year.

In terms of the business route I don't think there are any secrets. Make or source a product or develop a service and sell it for more than it costs to provide. Everything else is detail.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
a reply to: UKTruth

42 percent of your tax dollars are spend on the military (1.46 million people) and 8.7 percent on the poor (46.7 million people).

Now, let's see; WHOM where getting that free ride again?

So you change the governments spending habits not how they collect.

You seem confused because before you were complaining about how much the rich pay, then when it was pointed out that they actually pay an unfair amount you complain how it is dispersed.....

a reply to: Alien Abduct

It is totally, utterly fair that the higher incomes are taxed higher percentually - in absolute numbers, they still earn a massive amount of money. The top 1% earns more than 1.4 million bucks per annum (!). Yes, if you're in the top 1 percent you pay a little less than 40 percent taxes - but that still leaves you with a "meagre" income of .. $840.000 bucks each year. A full-time minimum wage employee earns $15,080 annually.

So, come again? That "poor mistreated rich guy that has to pay all them taxes.." makes roughly FIFTYFIVE times as much money as the guy that has to work for it at the minimum wage. So, tell me Pagliaccio, in your eyes it is UNFAIR that the fat cats pay more?

a reply to: UKTruth

I don't mind people being rich. I mind people being poor. And yes, there is a social and economical model that allows all of us to do what makes us happy - which in many cases still involves work, but not because we HAVE to, but because we WANT to. It's called "anarchy". But it requires people to be much more mature than they are now, to put others first, to fully exploit al the technical options we have and stop being so friggin' greedy all the time.

Alas, I probably won't live to see the day when anarchism rules. In the meantime, socialism is the best way towards anarchy. But alas, I probably won't live to see that day either. So, we need democracy then, the next best thing. But alas, I won't live to see that day either, methinks. You may think you live in a democracy already, but check the facts: if a total weirdo like Trump is eligible for the Presidency, either the American population is beserk - or they are carefully being manipulated to choose between carefully fixed options which eventually only can lead to Clinton's election.

You tell me, I don't know.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
a reply to: UKTruth

I don't mind people being rich. I mind people being poor. And yes, there is a social and economical model that allows all of us to do what makes us happy - which in many cases still involves work, but not because we HAVE to, but because we WANT to. It's called "anarchy". But it requires people to be much more mature than they are now, to put others first, to fully exploit al the technical options we have and stop being so friggin' greedy all the time.

Alas, I probably won't live to see the day when anarchism rules. In the meantime, socialism is the best way towards anarchy. But alas, I probably won't live to see that day either. So, we need democracy then, the next best thing. But alas, I won't live to see that day either, methinks. You may think you live in a democracy already, but check the facts: if a total weirdo like Trump is eligible for the Presidency, either the American population is beserk - or they are carefully being manipulated to choose between carefully fixed options which eventually only can lead to Clinton's election.

You tell me, I don't know.

I actually do feel your pain. Believe me, if you ever find Utopia, please PM me first. I will join you!

People mistake bullying and bravado as balls and guts.

Trump's theory that he will simply renegotiate with other countries to save us money.. will pull support out of countries unless they pay $$$.. that he will build walls and force someone else to pay for it is hilarious. Great ideas that I think he will find will fall flat when it comes time to implement them.

Borderline racist, womanizer, he would be a poor role model. His lack of knowledge about foreign powers and the state of politics in other countries is frankly alarming for someone trying to become POTUS. Oh wait.. never mind, he is going to have people that work for him figure it out.. that's right!

He will make foreign enemies and strain or break or strain relationships with allies. Heck.. he is already doing the latter and he isn't even the President. I don't know how people think he is going to "make America great!" again.. when he won't disclose how he will do it. Smoke and mirrors from one of the 1%s that everyone has bitched about for the last 10 years, and people are lapping it up.

Case in point.. OP stating he has ALREADY made America great again. Awesome and hilarious.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: BlueAjah
Your solution is that if people want to be lazy they should be able to?

Yes, because they probably have good reasons for it. Also, "to want to do less" (being lazy) is the driving force behind human success. It's the reason we invented machines, for example. Nothing wrong with being lazy.

And those who work hard should be supporting these lazy people? (because..... lazy people deserve to be happy, and hardworking people don't?)

As you wrote yourself: you are very happy to work hard, aren't you? So, don't complain but work hard and be happy, for as long as you still have a job. In the end, the machines will take it away from you anyway. I hope we then will have established a world in which you are not only allowed to survive - but are allowed to lead a happy live, as good as you can.

But maybe you are so indoctrinated that you should work that we must make you part of the army of office workers. You can still pretend to be useful if you are part of that army, where all you do actually is keeping others engaged in a meaningless play of fiddling with meaningless documents in a meaningless virtual world. But hey, they have "a job", don't they, so they are happy...

Sound folks aren't like that: they want to do things of value. Like playing guitar, or making love to the wife, or simply sit in the sun and talk with friends. Or perhaps make somthing beautiful for a friend, or take care of sick people, old people, educate and be educated. And if being able to do that requires some work to be done, well, so be it. But it's not WORK that drives us, it's the pursuit of happiness.

I truly, very much, feel sorry for you. doubt you will ever find happiness with such a bitter, hateful, twisted outlook on life.

Thank you for your compassion, but actually, I'm both quite lazy, quite healthy and quite happy

It's fine to be lazy and happy, just don't cry about other people being rich from hard work.
The world you want doesn't exist. It's a nice fantasy to be able to sit in the sun, drink wine, etc.. but there is no social or economic model that exists that will make that a reality for you, so you have choices you have to make.

I was once told by a man that made his first million (by himself/self made) at the age of 22 that the reason why he/we make so much money and become so wealthy is for freadom. He said when you reach that status you can just let your money work for you so you can travel and or do as you please. You essentially buy your own freedom.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: BlueAjah
Your solution is that if people want to be lazy they should be able to?

Yes, because they probably have good reasons for it. Also, "to want to do less" (being lazy) is the driving force behind human success. It's the reason we invented machines, for example. Nothing wrong with being lazy.

And those who work hard should be supporting these lazy people? (because..... lazy people deserve to be happy, and hardworking people don't?)

As you wrote yourself: you are very happy to work hard, aren't you? So, don't complain but work hard and be happy, for as long as you still have a job. In the end, the machines will take it away from you anyway. I hope we then will have established a world in which you are not only allowed to survive - but are allowed to lead a happy live, as good as you can.

But maybe you are so indoctrinated that you should work that we must make you part of the army of office workers. You can still pretend to be useful if you are part of that army, where all you do actually is keeping others engaged in a meaningless play of fiddling with meaningless documents in a meaningless virtual world. But hey, they have "a job", don't they, so they are happy...

Sound folks aren't like that: they want to do things of value. Like playing guitar, or making love to the wife, or simply sit in the sun and talk with friends. Or perhaps make somthing beautiful for a friend, or take care of sick people, old people, educate and be educated. And if being able to do that requires some work to be done, well, so be it. But it's not WORK that drives us, it's the pursuit of happiness.

I truly, very much, feel sorry for you. doubt you will ever find happiness with such a bitter, hateful, twisted outlook on life.

Thank you for your compassion, but actually, I'm both quite lazy, quite healthy and quite happy

It's fine to be lazy and happy, just don't cry about other people being rich from hard work.
The world you want doesn't exist. It's a nice fantasy to be able to sit in the sun, drink wine, etc.. but there is no social or economic model that exists that will make that a reality for you, so you have choices you have to make.

I was once told by a man that made his first million (by himself/self made) at the age of 22 that the reason why he/we make so much money and become so wealthy is for freadom. He said when you reach that status you can just let your money work for you so you can travel and or do as you please. You essentially buy your own freedom.

I think for most, that is the main reason for wanting to make a lot of money. Some do take it further though.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Have you read A People's History Of The United States by Howard Zinn? Its a fantastic read. It seems like a book you would enjoy.