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Does democracy mean you get a choice?

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posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 12:32 PM
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It’s that time of year almost they say where the Americans begin planning for taxes. Some of us sweat, pray, and then panic as we dole out ten to forty plus percent of the money we have earned to the federal and state government. I am certain people in other countries do the same when it is there turn-

My question is if democracy means that you enjoy freedoms of choice then why don’t we have any choices other than the vote?

It’s your money you earned it and its what is needed most to keep happy, feed, and safe yet you really don’t even know where it goes and you can’t ask for a refund or return even if you are not benefiting from it.

What would happen if you had a choice on where a portion of the money went every year? I am talking something real simple and small like a multiple choice check mark on your tax form that allowed you to choose where 20% of your tax dollars/currency would go. There could be several simple to understand and general categories to choose from. The rest would be in the hands of the government to decide.

Some of you may say we are too dumb to have a choice or know what to do with one if we had one but if we did it could hold the government more accountable with the money they get from us.




posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by Peregrine
Some of you may say we are too dumb to have a choice or know what to do with one if we had one but if we did it could hold the government more accountable with the money they get from us.


It's not that we are too dumb, but that many are too knowledgeable. Can you imagine if millions decided to use their tax money on healthcare or homes for the homeless rather than on weapons - Bush wouldn't get the money for his wars and he wouldn't be very happy.

That's why they don't trust us - they'd lose all their power.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 12:54 PM
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you do have a choice....you could chose to take a minimum wage job, and well, be assured that none of your money makes it to any of the programs that you don't like.....don't matter what country you live in, or what your circumstances are, you always have a choice. The question is, are you willing to accept the consequences that result from it. Like, well, are you willing to live on that minimum wage job. I just thank God that I live in a country that lets me make most of my choices without alot of government sponsered terrible circumstance when they don't conform to their wishes.

As far as our choices of where our tax money goes. Well, on the Federal, State, and local levels, they spend probably billions on stupid projects that just a small portion actually will benefit from, or support, but then they turn around and give us a choice, do we want higher property taxes, or do we want adequate education in our schools......
how stupid it this, we don't need another golf course, we don't need replica of the cabin that good ole Gov. Pataki's ancestors lived in in the old country, and we don't need most of the crap that they are spending the money on. But, since they know that even the most ignorant of us realize that good schools are a necessity, well, this is the one thing that we get to vote about.
I'd like to see them put all that pork spending on a ballot, let us chose those programs that we feel will be the most beneficial to us!



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 01:18 PM
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This country's government is called a democracy but is far from it. I mean, does anybody think the USA is a democracy? It's a Monarchy. Please. It does not matter who the "President" is, because he doesn't run it, the NWO does. The powerful people that have all the money. Is this a democracy? What a joke. Kennedy tried to run a Democracy and look what happened to him. The NWO killed him because he had a mind of his own.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 01:20 PM
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Your right I do have that choice but then again I am a nonbeliever in this system and do more than I care too swim with capitalists and avoid the pit of no money which really means no control. Just because this is the only way we know does not mean we can't make it better.

Schools are great example, in CA the fifth largest economy in the world we rank fortieth in the nation. The Gov just cut education spending here and I am paying for that and I want a choice where even as little as 5% of my taxes would go. Voting takes it out of our hands and into a system beyond any control. Money changes everything in America

Change happens when you control the change in your pocket.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by Zabilgy
This country's government is called a democracy but is far from it.


We live in a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 01:45 PM
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In the uk we pay around 25% tax from our wages, we pay 17.5% Value Added Tax on certain goods well pretty much all goods, we pay Council tax which can vary depending on were you live between £350 - £1200 a year [i pay £900) we pay car tax small engine i think £120 a year large engine £160 a year we pay for electricity gas water to our homes. All that tax. Everything in this country is expensive. Tax does my head in.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 02:20 PM
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Taxation Without Representation"....isn't that something we fought against in the American Revolution? Well, isn't the same thing going on today? Where does most of our tax money go? For that matter, where the hell does all the lottery money go? How did we survive before the effing lottery? And how many people are now addicted to gambling? And how happy is our wonderful government that they've gotten so many of its citizens addicted to gambling? It's all about sucking as much out of the middle class as possible and of course give as many breaks to big business and the mega-rich as possible. New World Order baby...gonna be the death of us all.......NWO = No Way Out baby.......

We need a President with some cajones. We will never have one again!



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 04:59 PM
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The problem is very simple: you duly pay your taxes like a good citizen is expected to. Then you walk outside and notice how bad road maintenance is. You go ahead, pass by a school and see that it looks very much like any condemned building. You end up stuck in a traffic jam for twenty minutes because the new freeway has been on hold for ten years, pending financial difficulties. These are the "small" things that make you wonder where your money ends up... Basically you pay the state to give them the cash to provide you with services, services that private companies would find unprofitable or would make so expensive as to deny access to them by a fair share of the population. But it doesn't happen. Some countries are better at this, some other are worse, but it's always the same... we pay our taxes, we'd like to know where our money ends up. Please. We'd like to know why, with stable or increasing taxation, the services are constantly worsening worldwide, we'd like to know why this cash is not even enough to keep the public debt in check. This just doesn't affect the US, it affects most countries worldwide. About the "taxation without representation" issue: you are completely right, but remember you can always contact your local representative or senator, and ask for answers, for example what's he/she's doing to protect your interests. You are lucky at that. Most European and Asian "democracies" don't even allow voters to get in touch with those same rapresentatives they voted for...



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Zabilgy
Taxation Without Representation"....isn't that something we fought against in the American Revolution? Well, isn't the same thing going on today? Where does most of our tax money go? For that matter, where the hell does all the lottery money go? How did we survive before the effing lottery? And how many people are now addicted to gambling? And how happy is our wonderful government that they've gotten so many of its citizens addicted to gambling? It's all about sucking as much out of the middle class as possible and of course give as many breaks to big business and the mega-rich as possible. New World Order baby...gonna be the death of us all.......NWO = No Way Out baby.......

We need a President with some cajones. We will never have one again!


He have representation! What do you call Congress? Only the residents of D.C. and other unincorporated territories of the U.S. can complain of no representation.



posted on Jan, 15 2005 @ 09:51 AM
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What "without representation" means is that we pay all kinds of taxes and don't know where the money goes. There are "reps" in congress obviously who supposedly represent us.....but paying taxes without knowing where the money goes is "taxation without representation"...without us knowing where it goes.

And no one seems to have any thoughts on what I said about the lottery...where does that money go??

Tell me where my money goes and be honest and then I'd trust my government....



posted on Jan, 15 2005 @ 03:56 PM
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i would call congresss a bunch of pocketfillers...no more no less.



posted on Jan, 16 2005 @ 05:04 AM
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I wanna be a bus, I wanna be a big bus, I wanna bus the world around, I wanna be the biggest bus that ever bussed the world around!

[edit on 16-1-2005 by Qlone]



posted on Jan, 16 2005 @ 08:00 AM
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Democracy, a choice of usually two main parties, both made up of businessmen and lawyers, the policies and agendas of which are pretty much the same. There are powerful figures in most current democracies that wield enormous power or influence whichever main party is in government at the time.
By the people for the people? How can this be when all those in government accept money from powerful "lobby" groups for favourable votes for or against bills that will enrich the lobbyists or their paymasters.
They are no longer serving the people but are pimping themselves out to the biggest payer.
If the current laws prevent government from doing something then hell, they'll just change the laws. The electorate are only there to finance whatever they want to do, whether we agree with it or not.

Democracy is an illusion.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 03:58 PM
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There are a lot of different democracies in the world. And everyone is different. The US uses a two party system, wich erradicates any political room for controversial or minority parties.

In northern Europe (Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland), there are democracies called consensus based democracies. For example: In Norway there were 12 parties that ran in the parlamentary elections. Seven of those are represented in the parlament. The reason for so many parties being represented, is the fact that the "Northern"-model of holding elections, ensures that every member of society gets represented.

In the US though, people vote (mostly) for two parties, this means that the people are led by an illusion that party-politics matters. Why would a democrat endorse Bush. Well, all principples and party politics are washed out.

What the US needs is a system where the president has little power and the Congress has a lot of power. In adddition to this, each vote should count. By that I meen that the winner takes all system should be removed. For instance: If a state has 100 citizens and 10 representatives in Congress. And lets say that we have party a, party b, party c and party d. Each of these parties should get as many representatives as votes:
Party A - 40 % of the votes, 4 representatives
Party B - 10 % of the votes, 1 representative
Party C - 30 % of the votes, 3 representatives
Party D - 20 % of the votes, 2 representatives

In addition to what I have explained you have about 12 different kinds of democracies. So the question is: What is Democracy? The answer is: An electoral system that gives every citizen the same representation as his neighbour.

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Tordenskiold]



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by nathraq

Originally posted by Zabilgy
This country's government is called a democracy but is far from it.


We live in a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy.

It upsets me, b/c I know better, and then I voted for Governer Greed Vonivibizacth (R) and criticize BSB member Kevin R., when he tired to get enviromental education classes like the one I took in High School, and to make plants more accountable.
Does anyone like these stupid networks and $, actually running the show? And dictating what is needed for a degree in history? It's more science and lingistics than math anyway? Plus, why don't they just add those damn 6 years on to the A.D. year system;instead of using B.C.E. and C.E.(UN BS!)
The major "brotherhood/sisterhood" networks are:
Unoffical: friends/business parnters/co-workers
Chruch(usually Catholic or Jewish based): Preists and Chruch Memebers
Fraternal: Police and College networks(i.e. Legally Blonde 2 Delta Nu)
Religion Based: Wiccan, "Satanic", and cult based groups
"The Illumanti" based: David Icke, Alex Jones, Eric Van Danicken Books for more info.(basicy runs the UN and the world.)
Rich/Celeb. based: Beilderburgs, Behemian Grove(wealthy, wealthy/media), and celebrity networks Nick C. and Tommy Lee, etc.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 05:00 PM
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The U.S. would never adopt a party-list based system like some European countries and Israel since we are simply too big and have far different needs and philosophies regionally. People want to have a representative for their particular district in which they live that understands their issues and whom they can contact if they need help. Democrats in the South (e.g. Zell Miller) can be more conservative than Republicans in the North (e.g. Rudy Giulliani). A particular candidate doesn't always hold all the same views as the official national party platform and many voters split their ballots voting for some Republicans and some Democrats according to the candidate, not their party affiliation.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 06:30 AM
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Speaking of taxes, has anyone else gotten a suprise when they did theirs?

just wondering....




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