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Russian Engineer Reveals Evidence for Advanced Ancient Civilisation

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posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 11:18 AM
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a reply to: username74

interestingly you see that thing ove 38 sent me. now if any of our assumptions about ancient construction are incorrect you could hold those guys up to the same fire as some of the more esoteric tours. just a lighthearted observation.




posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: username74

thanks by the way, ove 38
edit on 6-6-2016 by username74 because: cos im an idiot



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: username74
maybe rickymouse will catch up with this, as a stone mason, im a bench worker/carpenter with an engineering background and i live in a european mountain range (so i have to work with granite too, but on a more basic level)
now i want to placate the academics or white collars among us. this is not some kind of attack on them, i just want to point out that alot of theories about how the larger practical task were achieved are created by people who largely have litte or no practical experience in attempting large practical tasks, and ironically one of the biggest challenges of starting and finishing a large practical tasks is the planning and mindset (and i suspect i will come to regret my choice of words)
so bear that in mind
ok and here i will paste in herodotus because its probably the first coherent account of an outsider
i should point out that this shouldnt be regarded as a piece of primary evidence about the pyramids, its what some bloke who was his guide and he told what he thought he knew (or at least what he saw fit to tell this greek bloke)

www.cheops-pyramide.ch...

so problem 1
the old dolerite maul or pounding blocks
problem 2
working granite with copper and bronze
problem 3
timescale

ok number 2 first it easier
surely they would have bought in some iron or maybe if there was some rough steel tools. this stuff was knocking about in anatolia 4000 years ago. surely you wouldnt attempt to work with granite on that scale to that level with copper and bronze, and yes, i ve seen the studies. thats no kind of field test for any kind of equipment in an industrious working enviroment. fine on other rocks. not on granite.
and you were never going to find any lying aroud because of value and novelty. i still have my greatgrandfathers leather tools. what the hell for?

number 1
why can i only find examples of the bizarre finish of this dolerite pounder marks in egypt and in the andes. the type around the obelisk.
why do they think that trench around was made with pounders? because of the marks?
why would you use a pounder to dig? a long chisel and a pounder, maybe.
theres no leverage to be had on your haunches and theres no room bla blah
i also see an absence of chisel marks on the base but then chisel marks to break it free, maybe holes for wedges. fat chance! i know they say you can move anything with wedges, and thats basically true but it has to be a free object, not a considerable portion of earth still attached to a spree and having a supposed mass of a thousand plus tonnes
have you any real working concept of how massive that is? the wedges would have to take the weight of the obelisk before they start to exert pressure. if you use wedges to take something of the quarry wall the mass of the rock is working for you, it wants to go. they are trying to break whats beneath them and they are working perpendicular to gravity. maybe that was later. also do we know if it wasnt just abandoned initially and the cracks are from tectonic activity later on?
i digress, the pounders. so the other dolerite quarrys for stone henge . none. theres no mauls anyway, which i assume the same thing

www.livescience.com...

www.sci-news.com...

3 so i am not sure if there is an accepted modern idea of how long it was supposed to have taken because 3 months a year for 23 years is just shy of 6 solid years. on radishes and onions eh? i wonder if herodotus had a reference for the guy or just found him when he got off the boat. he says priests but it sounds to me like he heard it down the pub and maybe just saw them from a distance
i think reading off some of the quantities and looking at some of pertries drawings that its possible there was existant underground or something already there. its a limestone plateaux, full of caves and aquifers and i would be interested to know the relative datums of the old lake moeris surface, is that the name? and the plateaux
they may have used an existing cave network and isolated it, to construct the subterreanean sections.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 03:01 PM
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Just a brief comment...


originally posted by: username74
a reply to: username74
why do they think that trench around was made with pounders? because of the marks?

The shape, the size (I've seen it for myself when I visited Egypt), the marks, and the fact that a lot of rounded pounder stones were found in workmens' caches and discarded all over the place.

One of the locals demonstrated the use of the pounder for or tour group.


why would you use a pounder to dig? a long chisel and a pounder, maybe.

Chisels had to be re-hardened frequently, making it time-consuming.


theres no leverage to be had on your haunches and theres no room bla blah

They tied wooden handles to the pounders (they were more like hammers.) There's some of those in one of the museums that I visited (can't recall which)



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 03:21 PM
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a reply to: username74

Probably be a good idea to find out just what modern academics are saying the methods used were before you try debunking them





posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 03:28 PM
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a reply to: Marduk

wow thanks marduk
thats insightful
just go back a page



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 03:39 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

yeah, i mean i can i see it. it looks ike you think it would. but why can not find this technique elsewhere? there are other dolerite quarries and this isnt complicated kit.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 03:41 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

a demonstration of a pounder eh? they dont look complicated to operate



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 03:50 PM
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originally posted by: username74
a reply to: Marduk

wow thanks marduk
thats insightful
just go back a page


Haha, I'm such a dumbass...sorry

Try this too
www.sci-lib.net...



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 03:55 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

Chisels had to be re-hardened frequently, making it time-consuming.

and how do we know this is an issue of concern. even if it was, wouldnt it be expected. thats like telling me not to sharpen my chisels because its time consuming and telling me to use a smooth rock. except woods easier to carve.some tools are maintanance heavy like a chainsaw. its a good example. pain in the ass to sharpen but if its not sharp you might as well try and use a pounder. so without a chainsaw you must use an axe. and if your boss wants more production then he knows to let you sharpen your chisels
edit on 6-6-2016 by username74 because: gramma



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 03:59 PM
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originally posted by: username74 and if your boss wants more production then he knows to let you sharpen your chisels


Hmmm, working twenty years on a pyramid is a lifetimes job and with good pay

I wonder what the local unemployment rate was, or is that too cynical ?




posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 04:45 PM
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originally posted by: username74
a reply to: Byrd

Chisels had to be re-hardened frequently, making it time-consuming.

and how do we know this is an issue of concern. even if it was, wouldnt it be expected. thats like telling me not to sharpen my chisels because its time consuming and telling me to use a smooth rock. except woods easier to carve.some tools are maintanance heavy like a chainsaw. its a good example. pain in the ass to sharpen but if its not sharp you might as well try and use a pounder. so without a chainsaw you must use an axe. and if your boss wants more production then he knows to let you sharpen your chisels

You assume they used chisels at all on granite.
They didn't need to, except for the fine artwork and precise glyphs - some carved of or on granite.

Granite blocks can be fabricated using only stone. Smoothed and flattened too.

Regarding the fine, flat surfaces and exceeding precise glyphs, a little fire on the surface will crack all the crystals to a certain depth making the surface MUCH easier to work with a chisel, or smooth with a rubbing stone.

In fact, the use of fire in those trenches you mentioned is a current theory. Saves time - your pounder removes fractured granite much quicker.

Harte



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 04:47 PM
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a reply to: username74
hmmm. so these dolerite pounders were apparently not always hard enough e.g. gebel el-ahmar - red quartzite
and then they use 5 cm holes to break out a ridge (with a pick or a DOLERITE CHISEL, i kid you not)
use of fire has also been speculated about
incidently quartzite and granite have about the same hardness but feldspar makes a difference if its in the mix, i cant recall how


edit on 6-6-2016 by username74 because: clarity



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: username74

yeah just a few seconds behind you there harte
some of this stuff is pretty speculative though. even the accepted stuff i mean. theres alot of "probablys in there"
was reading about the fire in "sticks stones and shadows"



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 04:56 PM
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a reply to: Marduk

wanna buy a second hand camel?



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:03 PM
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a reply to: Harte

smoothing is what i would use that type of thing for anyway
that fire theory is pulled from 19cent india. although it was a method for breaking into tombs and quarrying in antiquity also.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: Harte

and i think they would have to use naptha to get a fairly even burn on it. also granites formed with different crystalline structures and constituents have different properties if i remember correctly



posted on Jun, 7 2016 @ 08:34 AM
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a reply to: username74
About as likely as lasers.

Harte



posted on Jun, 7 2016 @ 12:25 PM
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a reply to: Harte

whats about as likely as lasers, harte? please try to be more specific



posted on Jun, 7 2016 @ 04:55 PM
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originally posted by: username74
a reply to: Harte

whats about as likely as lasers, harte? please try to be more specific

Naptha. Unlikely.

Harte



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