Saudi Arabia Warns of Economic Fallout if Congress Passes 9/11 Bill

originally posted by: lSkrewloosel
a reply to: Profusion

sounds like USA are deep Saudis Pockets. i wonder how much more your government doers under the radar to keep them happy.

sounds like america is half owned by the Saudis. unlucky. i hope they do go to court whatever the backlash is.

It's not just America. The UK is right there too, especially when it comes to investments from GCC powerbrokers. And earlier, I provided a link with Canada defending its arms sales to Saudi Arabia. Just look into all of the various Western Heads of State that literally bow to and/or kiss the Saudi king.

Not to mention this interview w/David Cameron about Saudi Arabia (the good part starts at 5:26):

a reply to: Vector99
The last public execution in the United States was August 14, 1936 not the 1500's.

Only 80 years ago it was still happening in the United States.

I agree they are way behind us still but it has only been 80 years since we stopped doing similar.

originally posted by: knowledgedesired
a reply to: Vector99
The last public execution in the United States was August 14, 1936 not the 1500's.

Only 80 years ago it was still happening in the United States.

I agree they are way behind us still but it has only been 80 years since we stopped doing similar.

Was it for being an atheist, apostate, marrying outside the religion etc. Sure it's barbaric but the intention behind the executions are different.

We have our own barbaric past don't get me wrong and lots of nasty racism and sexism but I don't think we were doing bible executions in the 1900's.

In fact the last execution was for a rape murder. Saudis execute women for getting raped under an adultry conviction.

originally posted by: knowledgedesired
a reply to: Vector99
The last public execution in the United States was August 14, 1936 not the 1500's.

Only 80 years ago it was still happening in the United States.

I agree they are way behind us still but it has only been 80 years since we stopped doing similar.

And France chopped of its last head in 1977. And I believe finally got rid of the guillotine in 1979.

Side note....really, how ethical is it to go to war or drop bombs when your own country doesn't even support capital punishment? (Canada) F-ing hypocrites!

a reply to: luthier

That's a good point. Western nations tend to execute for "mortal sins" ie murder, rape, etc.

That said, the middle East and West are two completely different cultures (illusions) and thus both have two vastly different froms of morals and ethics. As insane as it may seem, it goes both ways.

Who's right? Likely neither. My observations lead me to believe that both the East and West are equally screwed up in their own ways.

Don't get me wrong though, being from the West, I have no ability to wrap my head around the fact that a place like Saudi Arabia can or should treat women like property.

Back to the whole Saudis being connected to 9/11...I have a feeling it goes through SA and stops at the Bush's...and perhaps not surprisingly Zionist Israel too.

Oh, what? A conspiracy on a conspiracy site? What? How? Arabs and Jews working together on a subsurface level all for overarching banking cartels? No! Never! It's impossible!! That's not how the game works!!!!!

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: knowledgedesired
a reply to: Vector99
The last public execution in the United States was August 14, 1936 not the 1500's.

Only 80 years ago it was still happening in the United States.

I agree they are way behind us still but it has only been 80 years since we stopped doing similar.

Was it for being an atheist, apostate, marrying outside the religion etc. Sure it's barbaric but the intention behind the executions are different.

We have our own barbaric past don't get me wrong and lots of nasty racism and sexism but I don't think we were doing bible executions in the 1900's.

In fact the last execution was for a rape murder. Saudis execute women for getting raped under an adultry conviction.

The US has killed hundreds of thousands if not over a million of innocent people in the middle east since 9-11. I'm pretty sure I remember Bush being quoted as saying something along the lines of God supported his war. Disturbing as Saudi capital punishment can be, how dare any American feel superior to them. Both governments are equally repugnant.

We in the US and the UK have no place on any high horse when it comes to morality. Our governments have let us all down and tainted us all with innocent blood. Tgat that blood belongs to a Muslim makes zero difference

a reply to: 3danimator2014

you do realize a casualty isnt always fatal right?

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: knowledgedesired
a reply to: Vector99
The last public execution in the United States was August 14, 1936 not the 1500's.

Only 80 years ago it was still happening in the United States.

I agree they are way behind us still but it has only been 80 years since we stopped doing similar.

Was it for being an atheist, apostate, marrying outside the religion etc. Sure it's barbaric but the intention behind the executions are different.

We have our own barbaric past don't get me wrong and lots of nasty racism and sexism but I don't think we were doing bible executions in the 1900's.

In fact the last execution was for a rape murder. Saudis execute women for getting raped under an adultry conviction.

The US has killed hundreds of thousands if not over a million of innocent people in the middle east since 9-11. I'm pretty sure I remember Bush being quoted as saying something along the lines of God supported his war. Disturbing as Saudi capital punishment can be, how dare any American feel superior to them. Both governments are equally repugnant.

We in the US and the UK have no place on any high horse when it comes to morality. Our governments have let us all down and tainted us all with innocent blood. Tgat that blood belongs to a Muslim makes zero difference

So what is this sophmoric arguement that I tacidely support the government to do these things?

Middle Eastern culture has literally been slaughtering each other since Mesopotamia. The intent of the people doing this killing matters philosophically as well as legally.
Last time I checked we were not doing this to our own people.

We have serious flaws. Terrible ones, we have serious religious barbarians in our culture as well.

However they are no where near the Saudis. Life is a living hell for most women, Atheists, gays, and any immigrant workers. We don't allow the same level of barbarism even if it still exists the intent and level of degree is far less.
You can bet if Saudis had anywhere near the money and influence of the US the whole world would be a living hell. I speak out plenty about the religious fanatics in my own country.

As far as 911 I hope this law completely severs our ties to these monsters. Force them to change their society.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: knowledgedesired
a reply to: Vector99
The last public execution in the United States was August 14, 1936 not the 1500's.

Only 80 years ago it was still happening in the United States.

I agree they are way behind us still but it has only been 80 years since we stopped doing similar.

Was it for being an atheist, apostate, marrying outside the religion etc. Sure it's barbaric but the intention behind the executions are different.

We have our own barbaric past don't get me wrong and lots of nasty racism and sexism but I don't think we were doing bible executions in the 1900's.

In fact the last execution was for a rape murder. Saudis execute women for getting raped under an adultry conviction.

The US has killed hundreds of thousands if not over a million of innocent people in the middle east since 9-11. I'm pretty sure I remember Bush being quoted as saying something along the lines of God supported his war. Disturbing as Saudi capital punishment can be, how dare any American feel superior to them. Both governments are equally repugnant.

We in the US and the UK have no place on any high horse when it comes to morality. Our governments have let us all down and tainted us all with innocent blood. Tgat that blood belongs to a Muslim makes zero difference

So what is this sophmoric arguement that I tacidely support the government to do these things?

Middle Eastern culture has literally been slaughtering each other since Mesopotamia. The intent of the people doing this killing matters philosophically as well as legally.
Last time I checked we were not doing this to our own people.

We have serious flaws. Terrible ones, we have serious religious barbarians in our culture as well.

However they are no where near the Saudis. Life is a living hell for most women, Atheists, gays, and any immigrant workers. We don't allow the same level of barbarism even if it still exists the intent and level of degree is far less.
You can bet if Saudis had anywhere near the money and influence of the US the whole world would be a living hell. I speak out plenty about the religious fanatics in my own country.

As far as 911 I hope this law completely severs our ties to these monsters. Force them to change their society.

I lived in Saudi for over 13 years. Not in a compound. In the city, surrounded by saudis. Obviously i know things are not great there...i have lived there. Have you been ANYWHERE IN the middle east?

To call the entire country barbaric is the height of ignorance. Someone said it on this thread, pretty sure it was you. You hate them. We get it.

Personally, I know (from experience ) that just like most countries, most of the people there are good, honest people. I have no love for Islam (im atheist) or the Saudi goverment. None WHATSOEVER. But i have just as little time for the usual anti muslim bullsh*t spouted on ATS by bigots every single day.

Here's a thought..why not stop the hatred on your end before criticising others?

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: knowledgedesired
a reply to: Vector99
The last public execution in the United States was August 14, 1936 not the 1500's.

Only 80 years ago it was still happening in the United States.

I agree they are way behind us still but it has only been 80 years since we stopped doing similar.

Was it for being an atheist, apostate, marrying outside the religion etc. Sure it's barbaric but the intention behind the executions are different.

We have our own barbaric past don't get me wrong and lots of nasty racism and sexism but I don't think we were doing bible executions in the 1900's.

In fact the last execution was for a rape murder. Saudis execute women for getting raped under an adultry conviction.

The US has killed hundreds of thousands if not over a million of innocent people in the middle east since 9-11. I'm pretty sure I remember Bush being quoted as saying something along the lines of God supported his war. Disturbing as Saudi capital punishment can be, how dare any American feel superior to them. Both governments are equally repugnant.

We in the US and the UK have no place on any high horse when it comes to morality. Our governments have let us all down and tainted us all with innocent blood. Tgat that blood belongs to a Muslim makes zero difference

So what is this sophmoric arguement that I tacidely support the government to do these things?

Middle Eastern culture has literally been slaughtering each other since Mesopotamia. The intent of the people doing this killing matters philosophically as well as legally.
Last time I checked we were not doing this to our own people.

We have serious flaws. Terrible ones, we have serious religious barbarians in our culture as well.

However they are no where near the Saudis. Life is a living hell for most women, Atheists, gays, and any immigrant workers. We don't allow the same level of barbarism even if it still exists the intent and level of degree is far less.
You can bet if Saudis had anywhere near the money and influence of the US the whole world would be a living hell. I speak out plenty about the religious fanatics in my own country.

As far as 911 I hope this law completely severs our ties to these monsters. Force them to change their society.

I lived in Saudi for over 13 years. Not in a compound. In the city, surrounded by saudis. Obviously i know things are not great there...i have lived there. Have you been ANYWHERE IN the middle east?

To call the entire country barbaric is the height of ignorance. Someone said it on this thread, pretty sure it was you. You hate them. We get it.

Personally, I know (from experience ) that just like most countries, most of the people there are good, honest people. I have no love for Islam (im atheist) or the Saudi goverment. None WHATSOEVER. But i have just as little time for the usual anti muslim bullsh*t spouted on ATS by bigots every single day.

Here's a thought..why not stop the hatred on your end before criticising others?

Keep up son.

Yeah I have been to the middle East. Abu Dhabi twice. Once for bjj and once with part of the US judo team. The women couldn't go anywhere. They were warned not to leave the area without an escort.

I also have been to Turkey several times. When I was 19 I spent 6 months in India. Mostly studying religious architecture in particular Jain temples in gujurat. I was planning on getting a photo journalism scholarship buy ended up being a philosophy major. I also worked for amnesty international in college...

Saudia Arabia has a tiny middle class and some of it is in the cities. The country is literally filled with what I would consider Muslim rednecks. People that put women in a pit and stone them on their own without the government telling them to do so. There is probably no country on the earth with more repressive people towards women living in it as a population.

I don't have Muslim hate I have told you several times there are several moderate countries or at least working towards that.

Jordan, Indonesia, Turkey (even with Erdogan taking it backwards), Lebanon, some of Pakistan, Syria before the war...

Your making an emotional strawman here bud.

Whats next ISIS is really just misundersrood?

Some of this makes me think of all the large trusts who divested from "oil" in the last few years. It all makes you wonder what's on the horizon, as far as new energy technology. Of course there's the Tokamaks...

www.tokamakenergy.co.uk...

and LM's deep commitments...

www.lockheedmartin.com...


To again veer off-topic, I suppose the Saudis will take it all very personally and overreact. It makes you worry for the safety of many important people.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Not to mention this interview w/David Cameron about Saudi Arabia (the good part starts at 5:26):

thanks for this, will check it out later today on my lunch.

Saudis respond to "60 Minutes" report on possible 9/11 link
youtu.be...

The following link is from CBS and the "60 Minute" investigation
www.cbsnews.com...

On last Sunday's "60 Minutes," correspondent Steve Kroft reported on a classified portion of the 9/11 report kept locked away in a secret vault. According to former government officials, the 28 heavily redacted pages contain details about a possible Saudi support network for the hijackers while they were in the U.S.

"I think it is implausible to believe that 19 people -- most of whom didn't speak English, most of whom had never been in the United States before, many of whom didn't have a high school education-- could've carried out such a complicated task without some support from within the United States," Bob Graham, former chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, told Kroft.

originally posted by: F4guy

originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: F4guy


We don't need people to do that. We have drones... guided missiles... buttons!

Yeah, I sorta expected you wouldn't volunteer.

Again.... why would someone do that if you had the ability to prevent a single on side death? Wake up. We're not playing with sticks and stones anymore.

And for the record... I served. What did you do? You shouldn't assume you know anything about me. I was probably kicking 3rd world sand while you sat at home and played with your dinkie, living free with the ability to say whatever the hell you want because of people like me.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: knowledgedesired
a reply to: Vector99
The last public execution in the United States was August 14, 1936 not the 1500's.

Only 80 years ago it was still happening in the United States.

I agree they are way behind us still but it has only been 80 years since we stopped doing similar.

Was it for being an atheist, apostate, marrying outside the religion etc. Sure it's barbaric but the intention behind the executions are different.

We have our own barbaric past don't get me wrong and lots of nasty racism and sexism but I don't think we were doing bible executions in the 1900's.

In fact the last execution was for a rape murder. Saudis execute women for getting raped under an adultry conviction.

The US has killed hundreds of thousands if not over a million of innocent people in the middle east since 9-11. I'm pretty sure I remember Bush being quoted as saying something along the lines of God supported his war. Disturbing as Saudi capital punishment can be, how dare any American feel superior to them. Both governments are equally repugnant.

We in the US and the UK have no place on any high horse when it comes to morality. Our governments have let us all down and tainted us all with innocent blood. Tgat that blood belongs to a Muslim makes zero difference

So what is this sophmoric arguement that I tacidely support the government to do these things?

Middle Eastern culture has literally been slaughtering each other since Mesopotamia. The intent of the people doing this killing matters philosophically as well as legally.
Last time I checked we were not doing this to our own people.

We have serious flaws. Terrible ones, we have serious religious barbarians in our culture as well.

However they are no where near the Saudis. Life is a living hell for most women, Atheists, gays, and any immigrant workers. We don't allow the same level of barbarism even if it still exists the intent and level of degree is far less.
You can bet if Saudis had anywhere near the money and influence of the US the whole world would be a living hell. I speak out plenty about the religious fanatics in my own country.

As far as 911 I hope this law completely severs our ties to these monsters. Force them to change their society.

I lived in Saudi for over 13 years. Not in a compound. In the city, surrounded by saudis. Obviously i know things are not great there...i have lived there. Have you been ANYWHERE IN the middle east?

To call the entire country barbaric is the height of ignorance. Someone said it on this thread, pretty sure it was you. You hate them. We get it.

Personally, I know (from experience ) that just like most countries, most of the people there are good, honest people. I have no love for Islam (im atheist) or the Saudi goverment. None WHATSOEVER. But i have just as little time for the usual anti muslim bullsh*t spouted on ATS by bigots every single day.

Here's a thought..why not stop the hatred on your end before criticising others?

Keep up son.

Yeah I have been to the middle East. Abu Dhabi twice. Once for bjj and once with part of the US judo team. The women couldn't go anywhere. They were warned not to leave the area without an escort.

I also have been to Turkey several times. When I was 19 I spent 6 months in India. Mostly studying religious architecture in particular Jain temples in gujurat. I was planning on getting a photo journalism scholarship buy ended up being a philosophy major. I also worked for amnesty international in college...

Saudia Arabia has a tiny middle class and some of it is in the cities. The country is literally filled with what I would consider Muslim rednecks. People that put women in a pit and stone them on their own without the government telling them to do so. There is probably no country on the earth with more repressive people towards women living in it as a population.

I don't have Muslim hate I have told you several times there are several moderate countries or at least working towards that.

Jordan, Indonesia, Turkey (even with Erdogan taking it backwards), Lebanon, some of Pakistan, Syria before the war...

Your making an emotional strawman here bud.

Whats next ISIS is really just misundersrood?

Don't call me son. I'm 41 years old. Ok...so just to be clear....you haven't been to Saudi Arabia. Turkey isn't the middle east by the way and I couldn't care less that you were with amnesty .

So you know pretty much nothing of the area or its people yet you see fit to generalise about them Got it....son. We are done here. You carry on spouting crap about the ME if you wish. I won't reply or bother you anymore.

Defending muslims on ATS is a losing battle.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: knowledgedesired
a reply to: Vector99
The last public execution in the United States was August 14, 1936 not the 1500's.

Only 80 years ago it was still happening in the United States.

I agree they are way behind us still but it has only been 80 years since we stopped doing similar.

Was it for being an atheist, apostate, marrying outside the religion etc. Sure it's barbaric but the intention behind the executions are different.

We have our own barbaric past don't get me wrong and lots of nasty racism and sexism but I don't think we were doing bible executions in the 1900's.

In fact the last execution was for a rape murder. Saudis execute women for getting raped under an adultry conviction.

The US has killed hundreds of thousands if not over a million of innocent people in the middle east since 9-11. I'm pretty sure I remember Bush being quoted as saying something along the lines of God supported his war. Disturbing as Saudi capital punishment can be, how dare any American feel superior to them. Both governments are equally repugnant.

We in the US and the UK have no place on any high horse when it comes to morality. Our governments have let us all down and tainted us all with innocent blood. Tgat that blood belongs to a Muslim makes zero difference

So what is this sophmoric arguement that I tacidely support the government to do these things?

Middle Eastern culture has literally been slaughtering each other since Mesopotamia. The intent of the people doing this killing matters philosophically as well as legally.
Last time I checked we were not doing this to our own people.

We have serious flaws. Terrible ones, we have serious religious barbarians in our culture as well.

However they are no where near the Saudis. Life is a living hell for most women, Atheists, gays, and any immigrant workers. We don't allow the same level of barbarism even if it still exists the intent and level of degree is far less.
You can bet if Saudis had anywhere near the money and influence of the US the whole world would be a living hell. I speak out plenty about the religious fanatics in my own country.

As far as 911 I hope this law completely severs our ties to these monsters. Force them to change their society.

I lived in Saudi for over 13 years. Not in a compound. In the city, surrounded by saudis. Obviously i know things are not great there...i have lived there. Have you been ANYWHERE IN the middle east?

To call the entire country barbaric is the height of ignorance. Someone said it on this thread, pretty sure it was you. You hate them. We get it.

Personally, I know (from experience ) that just like most countries, most of the people there are good, honest people. I have no love for Islam (im atheist) or the Saudi goverment. None WHATSOEVER. But i have just as little time for the usual anti muslim bullsh*t spouted on ATS by bigots every single day.

Here's a thought..why not stop the hatred on your end before criticising others?

Keep up son.

Yeah I have been to the middle East. Abu Dhabi twice. Once for bjj and once with part of the US judo team. The women couldn't go anywhere. They were warned not to leave the area without an escort.

I also have been to Turkey several times. When I was 19 I spent 6 months in India. Mostly studying religious architecture in particular Jain temples in gujurat. I was planning on getting a photo journalism scholarship buy ended up being a philosophy major. I also worked for amnesty international in college...

Saudia Arabia has a tiny middle class and some of it is in the cities. The country is literally filled with what I would consider Muslim rednecks. People that put women in a pit and stone them on their own without the government telling them to do so. There is probably no country on the earth with more repressive people towards women living in it as a population.

I don't have Muslim hate I have told you several times there are several moderate countries or at least working towards that.

Jordan, Indonesia, Turkey (even with Erdogan taking it backwards), Lebanon, some of Pakistan, Syria before the war...

Your making an emotional strawman here bud.

Whats next ISIS is really just misundersrood?

Don't call me son. I'm 41 years old. Ok...so just to be clear....you haven't been to Saudi Arabia. Turkey isn't the middle east by the way and I couldn't care less that you were with amnesty .

So you know pretty much nothing of the area or its people yet you see fit to generalise about them Got it....son. We are done here. You carry on spouting crap about the ME if you wish. I won't reply or bother you anymore.

Defending muslims on ATS is a losing battle.

Well for 41 you have some serious problems making a valid arguement. You also don't seem to realize I wasn't attacking Muslims. I was attacking Wahhabi Muslims. Which make up the majority of Saudi Arabians. I just told you I have no problem with moderate Muslims and there are plenty of countries that have moderate Muslims. There is even a minority of them in in S A.

Your basically defending Muslims at any cost regardless of their barbarism. Supposedly living in Saudi Arabia does not make you an expert. The country has a Wahhabi majority. That form of religion is barabaric. Period. They subjugate women and have very little tolerance for anything outside their beliefs.

So you can keep up the strawmans and red herrings all you like. I never once argued Muslims are bad across the board. In fact I did the opposite.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: knowledgedesired
a reply to: Vector99
The last public execution in the United States was August 14, 1936 not the 1500's.

Only 80 years ago it was still happening in the United States.

I agree they are way behind us still but it has only been 80 years since we stopped doing similar.

Was it for being an atheist, apostate, marrying outside the religion etc. Sure it's barbaric but the intention behind the executions are different.

We have our own barbaric past don't get me wrong and lots of nasty racism and sexism but I don't think we were doing bible executions in the 1900's.

In fact the last execution was for a rape murder. Saudis execute women for getting raped under an adultry conviction.

The US has killed hundreds of thousands if not over a million of innocent people in the middle east since 9-11. I'm pretty sure I remember Bush being quoted as saying something along the lines of God supported his war. Disturbing as Saudi capital punishment can be, how dare any American feel superior to them. Both governments are equally repugnant.

We in the US and the UK have no place on any high horse when it comes to morality. Our governments have let us all down and tainted us all with innocent blood. Tgat that blood belongs to a Muslim makes zero difference

So what is this sophmoric arguement that I tacidely support the government to do these things?

Middle Eastern culture has literally been slaughtering each other since Mesopotamia. The intent of the people doing this killing matters philosophically as well as legally.
Last time I checked we were not doing this to our own people.

We have serious flaws. Terrible ones, we have serious religious barbarians in our culture as well.

However they are no where near the Saudis. Life is a living hell for most women, Atheists, gays, and any immigrant workers. We don't allow the same level of barbarism even if it still exists the intent and level of degree is far less.
You can bet if Saudis had anywhere near the money and influence of the US the whole world would be a living hell. I speak out plenty about the religious fanatics in my own country.

As far as 911 I hope this law completely severs our ties to these monsters. Force them to change their society.

I lived in Saudi for over 13 years. Not in a compound. In the city, surrounded by saudis. Obviously i know things are not great there...i have lived there. Have you been ANYWHERE IN the middle east?

To call the entire country barbaric is the height of ignorance. Someone said it on this thread, pretty sure it was you. You hate them. We get it.

Personally, I know (from experience ) that just like most countries, most of the people there are good, honest people. I have no love for Islam (im atheist) or the Saudi goverment. None WHATSOEVER. But i have just as little time for the usual anti muslim bullsh*t spouted on ATS by bigots every single day.

Here's a thought..why not stop the hatred on your end before criticising others?

Keep up son.

Yeah I have been to the middle East. Abu Dhabi twice. Once for bjj and once with part of the US judo team. The women couldn't go anywhere. They were warned not to leave the area without an escort.

I also have been to Turkey several times. When I was 19 I spent 6 months in India. Mostly studying religious architecture in particular Jain temples in gujurat. I was planning on getting a photo journalism scholarship buy ended up being a philosophy major. I also worked for amnesty international in college...

Saudia Arabia has a tiny middle class and some of it is in the cities. The country is literally filled with what I would consider Muslim rednecks. People that put women in a pit and stone them on their own without the government telling them to do so. There is probably no country on the earth with more repressive people towards women living in it as a population.

I don't have Muslim hate I have told you several times there are several moderate countries or at least working towards that.

Jordan, Indonesia, Turkey (even with Erdogan taking it backwards), Lebanon, some of Pakistan, Syria before the war...

Your making an emotional strawman here bud.

Whats next ISIS is really just misundersrood?

Don't call me son. I'm 41 years old. Ok...so just to be clear....you haven't been to Saudi Arabia. Turkey isn't the middle east by the way and I couldn't care less that you were with amnesty .

So you know pretty much nothing of the area or its people yet you see fit to generalise about them Got it....son. We are done here. You carry on spouting crap about the ME if you wish. I won't reply or bother you anymore.

Defending muslims on ATS is a losing battle.

Well for 41 you have some serious problems making a valid arguement. You also don't seem to realize I wasn't attacking Muslims. I was attacking Wahhabi Muslims. Which make up the majority of Saudi Arabians. I just told you I have no problem with moderate Muslims and there are plenty of countries that have moderate Muslims. There is even a minority of them in in S A.

Your basically defending Muslims at any cost regardless of their barbarism. Supposedly living in Saudi Arabia does not make you an expert. The country has a Wahhabi majority. That form of religion is barabaric. Period. They subjugate women and have very little tolerance for anything outside their beliefs.

So you can keep up the strawmans and red herrings all you like. I never once argued Muslims are bad across the board. In fact I did the opposite.

Just the opposite? Please. The way you are talking reminds me of that Amy Shumer sketch where they are trying to teach elderly white people in America to trust black people. When one of the old folk remarks that "He's so articulate"..they tell her "that's not a compliment".

Same with you and Arabs. Your posts are dripping with condescension. As for the Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia, again, you are generalising. I lived there. I know how they treated me , my sister and my mother. You...went to Turkey and therefore know all about the middle east. Oh..sorry...you went to Abu Dhabi. Twice no less. Maybe you could follow Blair footsteps and become ME peace envoy since you are so deeply entrenched there.

As for strawman. ..you tell me off for throwing them around and then finish your post with one about ISIS. Nice one kid.

By the way. I'm lebanese. My parents are Catholic, sure but I know more Muslims and have experienced more of the middle east than you will ever do.

a reply to: luthier

Oh and THANK YOU for giving Lebanon the Luthier moderate seal of approval. We are so thankful that someone who knows zero about Lebanon has been kind enough to say we are OK over there.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014
a reply to: luthier

Oh and THANK YOU for giving Lebanon the Luthier moderate seal of approval. We are so thankful that someone who knows zero about Lebanon has been kind enough to say we are OK over there.

Don't forget Jordan.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: knowledgedesired
a reply to: Vector99
The last public execution in the United States was August 14, 1936 not the 1500's.

Only 80 years ago it was still happening in the United States.

I agree they are way behind us still but it has only been 80 years since we stopped doing similar.

Was it for being an atheist, apostate, marrying outside the religion etc. Sure it's barbaric but the intention behind the executions are different.

We have our own barbaric past don't get me wrong and lots of nasty racism and sexism but I don't think we were doing bible executions in the 1900's.

In fact the last execution was for a rape murder. Saudis execute women for getting raped under an adultry conviction.

The US has killed hundreds of thousands if not over a million of innocent people in the middle east since 9-11. I'm pretty sure I remember Bush being quoted as saying something along the lines of God supported his war. Disturbing as Saudi capital punishment can be, how dare any American feel superior to them. Both governments are equally repugnant.

We in the US and the UK have no place on any high horse when it comes to morality. Our governments have let us all down and tainted us all with innocent blood. Tgat that blood belongs to a Muslim makes zero difference

So what is this sophmoric arguement that I tacidely support the government to do these things?

Middle Eastern culture has literally been slaughtering each other since Mesopotamia. The intent of the people doing this killing matters philosophically as well as legally.
Last time I checked we were not doing this to our own people.

We have serious flaws. Terrible ones, we have serious religious barbarians in our culture as well.

However they are no where near the Saudis. Life is a living hell for most women, Atheists, gays, and any immigrant workers. We don't allow the same level of barbarism even if it still exists the intent and level of degree is far less.
You can bet if Saudis had anywhere near the money and influence of the US the whole world would be a living hell. I speak out plenty about the religious fanatics in my own country.

As far as 911 I hope this law completely severs our ties to these monsters. Force them to change their society.

I lived in Saudi for over 13 years. Not in a compound. In the city, surrounded by saudis. Obviously i know things are not great there...i have lived there. Have you been ANYWHERE IN the middle east?

To call the entire country barbaric is the height of ignorance. Someone said it on this thread, pretty sure it was you. You hate them. We get it.

Personally, I know (from experience ) that just like most countries, most of the people there are good, honest people. I have no love for Islam (im atheist) or the Saudi goverment. None WHATSOEVER. But i have just as little time for the usual anti muslim bullsh*t spouted on ATS by bigots every single day.

Here's a thought..why not stop the hatred on your end before criticising others?

Keep up son.

Yeah I have been to the middle East. Abu Dhabi twice. Once for bjj and once with part of the US judo team. The women couldn't go anywhere. They were warned not to leave the area without an escort.

I also have been to Turkey several times. When I was 19 I spent 6 months in India. Mostly studying religious architecture in particular Jain temples in gujurat. I was planning on getting a photo journalism scholarship buy ended up being a philosophy major. I also worked for amnesty international in college...

Saudia Arabia has a tiny middle class and some of it is in the cities. The country is literally filled with what I would consider Muslim rednecks. People that put women in a pit and stone them on their own without the government telling them to do so. There is probably no country on the earth with more repressive people towards women living in it as a population.

I don't have Muslim hate I have told you several times there are several moderate countries or at least working towards that.

Jordan, Indonesia, Turkey (even with Erdogan taking it backwards), Lebanon, some of Pakistan, Syria before the war...

Your making an emotional strawman here bud.

Whats next ISIS is really just misundersrood?

Don't call me son. I'm 41 years old. Ok...so just to be clear....you haven't been to Saudi Arabia. Turkey isn't the middle east by the way and I couldn't care less that you were with amnesty .

So you know pretty much nothing of the area or its people yet you see fit to generalise about them Got it....son. We are done here. You carry on spouting crap about the ME if you wish. I won't reply or bother you anymore.

Defending muslims on ATS is a losing battle.

Well for 41 you have some serious problems making a valid arguement. You also don't seem to realize I wasn't attacking Muslims. I was attacking Wahhabi Muslims. Which make up the majority of Saudi Arabians. I just told you I have no problem with moderate Muslims and there are plenty of countries that have moderate Muslims. There is even a minority of them in in S A.

Your basically defending Muslims at any cost regardless of their barbarism. Supposedly living in Saudi Arabia does not make you an expert. The country has a Wahhabi majority. That form of religion is barabaric. Period. They subjugate women and have very little tolerance for anything outside their beliefs.

So you can keep up the strawmans and red herrings all you like. I never once argued Muslims are bad across the board. In fact I did the opposite.

Just the opposite? Please. The way you are talking reminds me of that Amy Shumer sketch where they are trying to teach elderly white people in America to trust black people. When one of the old folk remarks that "He's so articulate"..they tell her "that's not a compliment".

Same with you and Arabs. Your posts are dripping with condescension. As for the Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia, again, you are generalising. I lived there. I know how they treated me , my sister and my mother. You...went to Turkey and therefore know all about the middle east. Oh..sorry...you went to Abu Dhabi. Twice no less. Maybe you could follow Blair footsteps and become ME peace envoy since you are so deeply entrenched there.

As for strawman. ..you tell me off for throwing them around and then finish your post with one about ISIS. Nice one kid.

By the way. I'm lebanese. My parents are Catholic, sure but I know more Muslims and have experienced more of the middle east than you will ever do.

I guess that means a redneck from West Texas or Appalachian hillbilly's are experts on the US.

Your living anywhere doesn't mean anything about your education or ability to use objective reasonin