Cops Using Small Doses of Martial Law

Originally posted by cavscout

Like I said before are some cops just jerks yes. But some programers are jerks so are some teachers so are some doctors.

Programmers don't take a sacred oath (unless of course you count the pledge of allegiance they said in school as an oath. "And to the republic, for which it stands.") Teachers don't swear to uphold and defend our constitution, do they? Doctors are held accountable to their own oaths, one of conscious, not one of the protection of our way of life.

Those were just examples but if you want examples of people that take similar sacreds oaths no prob.

Lets start with lawyers. They take a oath to support the Constitution and guess what there are corrupt lawyers.

Lets get back to Doctors for a sec. They may not take oaths to protect our way of life but our very life. And yes there are curropt doctors

Politicians

Military personal

I could go on but I grow tired of this and your post

Originally posted by krt1967

So these chickenbutts all got fired.

I would like to see a link to the original story that surely appeared in your local paper. Thank you

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
See I didnt say that because thats just as stupid as cavscout saying all cops are backstabbers or corrupt. See Im not going to lump millions of people into any group thats just ignorant.
[edit on 15-1-2005 by ShadowXIX]

See now, you keep saying that but you wont answer my main point. What’s that about?

Can you honestly say that you think there is one LEO out there who hasn't enforced or helped to enforce an unconstitutional law? What’s wrong with "lumping millions of people into any group" if they all belong there?

Just tell me that you can name one cop who hasn’t done something contradictory to the constitution. That’s all.

Oh, and by the way, we are not discussing lawyers or doctors. They are not the same thing as cops. You’re trying to avoid having to say that there is not one cop who hasn’t crapped on the constitution, and therefore became a lying, backstabbing piece of crap.


[edit on 15-1-2005 by cavscout]

Scout, I will say that most of them have no idea what they are doing.
They are given minimal and warped training in the area of the constitution and they haven't bothered to figure out what should be glaring.

Look, I'm not the brightest crayon in the box, so if I noticed a problem between the statutes and the constitution, at least half of the cops should as well.

Posted by Drew Da General
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It has come to my attention that cops are using small doses of martial law in urban areas.I have been a victim many times so i speak from experience.

What types of doses are you experiencing??? Your post sounds very confusing. Can you please explain what a "dose" is?

Posted by Drew Da General
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Cops are doing whatever they feel like nowadays.

This is an open-ended statement. When you say that cops are doing whatever they want, what exactly do you mean? Thanks in advance for making an attempt to clarify your statement. I know you will attempt to do so.

Posted by Drew Da General
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I've gotten to the point where i am fed up and i know many others are too.

What are you fed up with?

Posted by Drew Da General
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I have broken no laws unless walking down the street is breaking the law.

Walking down the street is not against the law.

Posted by Drew Da General
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My brother was hit with 2 tickets in one week for walking the dog.

Is that what the tickets read??? Are you sure??? If he received two tickets for walking his dogs, was it for bringing them into a place where dogs are not allowed??? I am simply trying to figure out why your brother would receive two tickets for walking his dogs because I have never heard of such a charge.

Posted by Drew Da General
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Cops giving out summons for anything now,people sitting on milk crates,people sitting alone in a park,ect...

Those do not sound like legal charges. A legal charge is either:
1. A Federal statute or
2. A State statute or
3. An ordinance

Posted by Drew Da General
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I mean it's gotten ridiculous,isn't there something better for them to do.

Are you asking if the cops have anything better to do, other than enforcing the laws??? Cops are paid to enforce laws. Consequently, I don't understand your question.

Posted by Drew Da General
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Have we all become suspicious potential criminals to them?.

No, not everyone is suspicious.

Posted by Drew Da General
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So what do we need police for if they're doing more harm than good.

That is your opinion.

Posted by Drew Da General
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People need to open their eyes and see what's going on.

Absolutely, espicially if they are driving, then it becomes even more important for people to keep their eyes open to prevent a crash from occuring. We agree.

Posted by Drew Da General
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If you are gonna try to bash me make sure you have experienced something corrupt from the law because if not you don't know how it really is.

No, I'm not going to "bash" you, as it seems that you are doing that to yourself. There is no need for me to interfere.

TC, that kind of fits into the below, wouldn’t you say?

Originally posted by cavscout

Oh, and remember; although they may not consider anything they do unconstitutional, or they may think it is OK because they are serving the will of the people, lets not forget the Germans. When we prosecuted the Nazis at Nuremberg in '46, what did we establish? We established a precedent that men can and will be executed legally for "just following orders."

Since when is not being aware an excuse for anything. If I break a law I didn't know about, that is no excuse to a cop. It goes deeper than that anyways. When I go and voluntarily get a drivers license, I agree to follow the laws. In a sense, I am taking an oath to follow the speed limits. Now, if I break the speed limit because I didn't know what it was, this is no excuse for a cop, I will still be ticketed. So, following their same logic of not knowing is no excuse, they made a promise to protect and defend the constitution, so not knowing what that entails and doing everything to enforce it, including dieing for it, is a crime.

General Washington didn't stop to make sure the redcoats he was killing were aware of his ideology that God gave him certain rights and they were trampling them. In fact, those British soldiers and Hessian mercs were enforcing the valid law of the land. On the contrary, our law enforcement officers are the ones breaking the law of the land. What do you all think General Washington would say if he could see his beloved republic today? I bet he would be sickened that we weren’t out killing every federal employee we could find.

I agree with what you are saying, Scout. But, for the denefit of the doubt of the cop that is even dumber than I am, let's use this as an example:

You just said you went down town and picked up a license. Why? Had you bought an automobile and never "gave" it to the state by placing their tag on it, you'd never have needed that driver's license. Now, doesn't it make sense that you would be travelling instead of operating under such conditions? You have the right to travel, right? Driving is a privilege, right?
Now, what do you think the typical cop is going to think if you are traveling, he pulls you over and you ask him why he thinks his Uniformed Commercial Codes apply to you? He's not gonna ask if you've been drinking, but what have you been smoking with it?

Posted by cavscout
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I have even been covered by the police myself, "Just taking care of our own" they said. I didnt mind at the time, kept my butt out of court for brutality charges and the bad guy deserved it, but it was still not right.

Are you admitting that you brutally beat someone??? Why did you do that???

Posted by cavscout
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The police work for you. They are your servants.

If you are stating that the police are protected by "civil service" laws and, as a result, are civil servants, then yes, your context is correct. However, if you are suggesting that an officer is your personal servant, who is required to do your bidding, then your context is grossly incorrect.

Posted by cavscout
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You are the one who gives them their authority.

The authority of a state, county or city officer comes from the state statutes and not from a lone individual, such as yourself.

Posted by cavscout
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The police should treat every citizen like their boss.

You are entitled to your opinion. However, it is unlikely that an officer will [ever] treat you like his supervisor. Having said that... an officer should be polite to the citizenry.

Posted by cavscout
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I know that if an employee of mine "found a reason" to harass me I would fire him faster then he could say un-employment.

It is a common tactic for hard core criminals to lodge false complaints against officers. The goal of the criminal is to apply political heat to the officer and, thus, maybe the officer will terminate his criminal investigation against the suspect. This is not a new tactic.

Posted by cavscout
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Ever thought about how we are conditioned as a society to say “thank you” to a cop after he writes us a ticket?

Not everyone says "thank you" after receiving a ticket, though some do. Additionally, I never understood why a citizen would immediately begin yelling or cursing at an officer from the outset. Do they expect the officer to say -- "Oh, excuse me for pulling you over for speeding / tail gating / running a red light / etc... I'm so sorry for pulling you over. Here is your license back. I'm not writing you a ticket. Have a nice day!!!" LOL -- Keep dreaming!!! A citizen who starts off the conversation by yelling at the officer is doing himself a disservice. You can get more with honey than with vinegar.

Posted by cavscout
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A man with a gun just made you stop your car, took time out of your busy day and committed armed robbery against with his ticket.

The officer committed armed robbery against you, simply by writing you a ticket for when you broke the law???? If that is your understanding of how traffic laws work, then you are grossly lacking in judgement.

Posted by cavscout
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I think the system is too corrupt to get better, partially because it is doing exactly what they want it to do, keep you in line, make you not resist authority.

Are you suggesting that because one egg is rotten, then all the eggs are rotten?

Posted by cavscout
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We are conditioned from day one that the government official doing an injustice to us deserves our thanks and a pat on the back for it.

I have read and re-read your post and it makes no sense.

Posted by cavscout
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It would take pages to lay out my whole theory on it...

The small amount that you've written is quite an eye-opener.

Posted by cavscout
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Maybe I will write a book one of these days. Opps, better not say that, they will come confiscate my hard drive and seal the warrant so I can’t get it back.

How do you spell paranoid???

Posted by cavscout
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Look, the police can’t be trusted.

You are painting all officers with the same croocked paint brush.

Posted by cavscout
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In Alaska, school teachers tell girls not to roll down the window for highway patrol because there is a good chance you will get raped.

I frankly do not believe that that is a part of the curriculum. Furthermore, I do not believe that instructors are teaching that sort of thing.

Posted by cavscout
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The police are dirty, corrupt scum. Every one of them.

Again, you are painting all officers with the same crooked paint brush.

Posted by cavscout
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No, I don’t think the system can be fixed; it is working just how they intend it to.

Why are "they"???

Ok, Yx, do you understand the difference between "peace officer" and "police officer"?
Do you understand when a peace officer can constitutionally come in contact with a citizen? Do you understand when they can search you, hold you or arrest you without violating the constitution? Seems obvious to me that they don't! Ah, but once again, who are you that they are coming into contact? Are you a sovereign man on the land, or are you a straw man attached the D.C.?
Yes, the peace officer is the servant and you are the master as we are supposed to be the masters of this government. Things have changed a bit after we were declared enemies of the government. Remember the flag reference? What kind of flag is on the uniform of the cop? Executive or judicial? Does it have gold trim? Yup. It's a war flag. Hmmm.... what has happened?

By the way, Yx, why not just type your thoughts rather than quote-bullet quote-bullet? Not only is that highly annoying, you are helping none when it comes to any actual exchange of ideas or information.

Posted by Thomas Crowne
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Ok, Yx, do you understand the difference between "peace officer" and "police officer"?

There are 50 states in the union with 50 different sets of rules and laws. For which state does your question apply?

Posted by Thomas Crowne
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Do you understand when a peace officer can constitutionally come in contact with a citizen?

LOL -- yes.

Posted by Thomas Crowne
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Do you understand when they can search you, hold you or arrest you without violating the constitution?

Yes.

Posted by Thomas Crowne
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Seems obvious to me that "they" don't!

When you say "they," are you referring to all officers? Are you painting all officers with the same paint brush?

Posted by Thomas Crowne
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Ah, but once again, who are you that they are coming into contact?

I do not understand your question. Maybe you can re-word it a little bit better.

Posted by Thomas Crowne
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Are you a sovereign man on the land, or are you a straw man attached the D.C.?

LOL -- I have read and re-read your question, but cannot make any sense out of it. What exactly are you trying to ask???

Posted by Thomas Crowne
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Things have changed a bit, after we were declared enemies of the government.

Who declared you an enemy of the government??? What are you talking about???

Posted by Thomas Crowne
Yx, why not just type your thoughts rather than quote-bullet quote-bullet?

Because when I answer a quote from page 1 [of 5] that was written a week ago, I want the reader to know exactly what my comments are in reference to.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
I agree with what you are saying, Scout. But, for the denefit of the doubt of the cop that is even dumber than I am, let's use this as an example:

You just said you went down town and picked up a license. Why? Had you bought an automobile and never "gave" it to the state by placing their tag on it, you'd never have needed that driver's license. Now, doesn't it make sense that you would be travelling instead of operating under such conditions? You have the right to travel, right? Driving is a privilege, right?
Now, what do you think the typical cop is going to think if you are traveling, he pulls you over and you ask him why he thinks his Uniformed Commercial Codes apply to you? He's not gonna ask if you've been drinking, but what have you been smoking with it?

Yes, I agree that most (99%) would not know what the hell you were talking about and it would go to court, where your odds of finding a judge who would hear your UCC claim would be only slightly better, and if he did listen, it would probably be out of amusement. The UCC filings of sovereign citizens have been getting more complex, however, and more and more are getting their day in court and some are even winning, but that’s a conversation for another thread.

I think I understand what you are saying about them not understanding, but I insist that this is no excuse. Further, since almost none of them understand their OWN law, let alone the real law, what is one to do?

You could:
A. Try to start a public awareness group and educate them. You would probably be laughed at from the get-go and end up on a federal agencies # list.

B. You can let it go and live by their rules. Granted you would be consenting to being a slave, but you could keep your comfortable jobs and lifestyles.

C. You can take to the hills and start shooting government agents in the back. In this scenario, you will probably die and you will set back the cause of liberty in this country God only knows how much. Not only that, but you will be labeled a "lone nut," a militia member (even if you never joined a militia,) a white separatist (even if you live in the city and your wife is black,) and probably be tied to Iraqi insurgents somehow. I wanted to avoid getting off subject by talking about all that so I started this thread last night
politics.abovetopsecret.com...' but if seems this thread has moved toward that topic anyways.

So what do we do TC if we can’t get LE to understand? What would you suggest?

Bull, you just answered me 5 minutes after I posted and did it the same way.
In regard to your first bullet response to one of my questions, my resonse to that bullet response is that your response to the second question indicates that you are incorrect in your assumption that you understand.
In refard to all other bullet responses, were you talking to me? Sorry, I nodded off as I don't do repetitive bullet/quotes. If a poster is that impolite as to not talk with me, I don't read.

If you want to have good officers, then it begins from the top down... all the way down to when they are hired. It is imperative that only the best candidates be hired as entry-level officers. That's why becoming a cop is one of the hardest jobs to get, although politics can also play a large role (unfortunately).

Who do you want to see hired as an officer??? What kinds of standards should be imposed on applicants???

1. Pass a polygraph examination.

2. Pass a background investigation where an investigator interviews the applicants present and past neighbors, present and past employers, present and past co-employees, etc...

3. Pass a T.A.B.E. test to determine if the applicant can read and write at a sufficient level.

4. Have a minimum of an Associates or a Bachelors degree.

5. Not have an arrest record.

6. Not have a history of moral turpitude.

7. Not have experimented with certain drugs... or not have experimented with marijuana in the last XXX years.

8. Never been a dealer.

9. Pass an oral review board of senior officers.

10. Pass an oral review board of civilians.

11. Pass a physical agility test, to include strength testing, aerobic testing, etc...

12. Pass a police academy.

13. Pass a field training program (historically, this has a high wash-out rate).

14. Insert your own requirement here....

As you can see, it can be an expensive and time consuming process to find, hire and train the most qualified police applicant. For every 100 applicants, about 3 - 10 are hired, depending on the locale.

Originally posted by Yxboom

Posted by Thomas Crowne
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Are you a sovereign man on the land, or are you a straw man attached the D.C.?

LOL -- I have read and re-read your question, but cannot make any sense out of it. What exactly are you trying to ask???

Posted by Thomas Crowne
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Things have changed a bit, after we were declared enemies of the government.

Who declared you an enemy of the government??? What are you talking about???

You have just proven that you have no idea what the conversation is even about, and that you need to go educate yourself before further engagement so as not to make yourself sound stupid.

As evidenced by YX here, I would have to say you are right TC, most people have no idea and think you are smoking something when you bring up the law.

Posted by cavscout
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You have just proven that you have no idea what the conversation is even about, and that you need to go educate yourself before further engagement so as not to make yourself sound stupid.

LOL -- If you only knew. ROFLMBO

Originally posted by cavscout

See now, you keep saying that but you wont answer my main point. What’s that about?

Can you honestly say that you think there is one LEO out there who hasn't enforced or helped to enforce an unconstitutional law? What’s wrong with "lumping millions of people into any group" if they all belong there?

Just tell me that you can name one cop who hasn’t done something contradictory to the constitution. That’s all.

Oh, and by the way, we are not discussing lawyers or doctors. They are not the same thing as cops. You’re trying to avoid having to say that there is not one cop who hasn’t crapped on the constitution, and therefore became a lying, backstabbing piece of crap.


[edit on 15-1-2005 by cavscout]

Ok I see where you are going now But its not really the Cops that are " crapping " on the constitution or changing it. That would fall on the people that make the laws they people we elect to office.

Its also true that in a cops oath the pledge" to uphold and defend The Constitution of The United States of America" But they also pledge to uphold the law of their state. I'll use the Maryland state police oath as a example.

''I do solemnly swear that I will bear true faith and allegiance to The United States of America and to The State of Maryland; that I will serve honestly and faithfully to uphold and defend The Constitution of The United States of America and to The State of Maryland; that I will enforce the laws of The State of Maryland; and that I will obey the orders of The Governor and the Officers appointed over me according to the rules and regulations of The Maryland State Police.''

If you have a problem with laws that conflict with the Constitution blame the law makers not the cops.

I would like it if you could give some examples of a law that cops enforce that violates the Constitution. Dont give me the fact that you cant buy or own a anti-tank missile and that violates the second amendment either.

www.mdsp.maryland.gov...

Originally posted by cavscout

Oh, and remember; although they may not consider anything they do unconstitutional, or they may think it is OK because they are serving the will of the people, lets not forget the Germans. When we prosecuted the Nazis at Nuremberg in '46, what did we establish? We established a precedent that men can and will be executed legally for "just following orders."

I have said it twice now, does everyone see it! Just following orders is no excuse.

Shadow, why wouldn’t enforcing laws contradictory to the 2nd count? After all, it is the most important right, for without it you have no way to secure your other rights. Anyways, I am going to go smoke and get a coffee, and if my wife lets me back on the computer when I get back, I will give you some other examples. I swear ATS is going to cause a divorce!