Mel Bundy Beaten, Starved, Tortured while being Unlawfully Imprisoned

a reply to: grahag

Gotcha. My initial response was to remind you that the thread is about the bad behavior of government officials and NOT the Bundys... then I realized that what you are really telling me (and the world) is that because you don't like the Bundys and/or their cause, you have no problem with any/all abuse, threats, intimidation and even torture being committed by government agents/officials in your name... Good to know.

And I will only say thank you for reminding me once again that there are such people who can and do applaud, condone and encourage this sadistic behavior... and hence the profound need for the rest of us to keep fighting the good fight. I fully recognize and understand though that while you would throw me and others to the wolves, me and others are fighting for you and your rights as well as our own. Do you?

a reply to: Miracula2

Wow. Just wow. I've read your comment a few times and I'm STILL having trouble wrapping my head around the twisted logic. Wow.

The Bundy's are not responsible for the behavior and actions of anyone but themselves... Likewise, government agents and officials are responsible for their own behavior. In the case of this OP, their BAD behavior.

But the overwhelming message that I get from your words is that of a bully. Obviously, the Bundys -- and all individuals -- targeted by the government have the least amount of power and the least amount of strength and the least amount of resources, but you would blame the victims of government abuse and tyranny for their abuse and tyranny, giving government agents/officials a free pass to keep doing the same.

Good to know. Thanks for the heads up.

a reply to: Indigo5

I have read the OP, thread and anything I could find on the net and can't find anything to suggest this OP isn't complete BS?

And you were expecting what? A full confession from the accused???

Let me just start with the Henderson (Nevada) Police Department Incident and Discipline Report (form HPD 4002) dated 4/13/16 which documents:

Inmate Bundy placed on segregation status for his safety and welfare per Lt. Toliver due to high profile case.

Which does, in fact, partially substantiate the Bundy women's claims; and which does, in fact, conform to bipartisan national and international standards of torture:

Barack Obama: Why we must rethink solitary confinement

George Will: The torture of solitary confinement

In the Cellars of the Hollow Men: Use of Solitary Confinement in U.S. Prisons and Its Implications Under International Laws against Torture

Also note that per the documentation of the Henderson Police Department, Ammon Bundy (and reportedly/presumably others) was placed in solitary confinement upon initial booking by the Henderson Police, not for any transgressions on his part, nor because of any threats from the general population of the prison, but simply because it was a "high profile case."

Obama Highlights The Destructive Impact Of Solitary Confinement While Announcing New Rules

But you can't find anything to suggest this OP isn't complete BS?

Yeah, right.

If I missed anyone, I apologize -- give me a nudge and point me in the direction of your comment, and I will respond... I promise!

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: Boadicea

Wow thanks for posting about the fb thing.

You're welcome. Rather odd, isn't it? Or maybe that's just the norm now.

Well, just yesterday I met a Libertarian attorney who is investigating the Bundy episode. He says Ammon was indeed in chains.

And thank you for sharing that -- it warms my cockles to know others are paying attention and digging for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!!! One of my biggest red flags in all this is the LACK of information available from both official sources and mainstream media.

I told him I was grateful for people like him to defend liberty and we discovered we both have Revolutionary Patriots in our ancestry.

I too am very grateful for people like him. And you can add me to those who have Revolutionary roots. I jokingly say that my Uncle Sam is Sam Adams, but I can trace my heritage back half a dozen ways and on both sides of my family. I don't take any glory in it for myself -- I was taught early in my life that their glory was not my own, but only that I had a responsibility to live up to my forefathers' legacy. And I'm trying...

originally posted by: Boadicea
-- snip --
And thank you for sharing that -- it warms my cockles to know others are paying attention and digging for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!!! One of my biggest red flags in all this is the LACK of information available from both official sources and mainstream media.
-- snip --

I find it interesting that it keeps being repeated that Malheur was taken by force or gunpoint when, in fact, the person in charge told refuge employees not to come back after the holiday. This was well in advance of the get together at the Hammond ranch. There had been no plans for anything other than that gathering as a show of support before someone else that had become part of the crowd suggested a place down the road that could be used to help draw attention to the protest.

The lady with the trailer park & restaurant just outside the refuge got a phone call from an "official" telling her to possibly expect several vehicles passing her place & going to the refuge. She was instructed not to do anything, just let them go, and that there was no need to call any authorities.

I've listened to an interview with the lady that was in the truck with Lavoy (later, when they killed him) and she said the refuge was unlocked and unoccupied when they got there.

As of a week or so ago, one of the Bundys (Ryan, I think) still had a bullet in his shoulder.

Watch this and then explain to me just how the BLM is "managing" anything when they are investing neither money nor effort in these type areas that are affected and when the overgrazing of the land forces them to move the wild horses, their answer is to move them into areas where ranchers have gone through the processes (and expense) for the necessary paperwork, maintained the land and any fencing or buildings as well as paying for the drilling of any wells and upkeep of that, and arbitrarily reduce the amount of cattle the rancher can have.


The men who don't want to identify themselves in this vid are NOT Oregon State Police(OSP). Before you call me a liar or full of sh*t, do a just a little bit of your own research and you'll find out I'm right. The guy driving the vehicle that was behind Lavoy and had one of the Bundys with him was one of the plants. That can be easily verified.

The two women in the truck with Lavoy were just a high school girl who had gone up there to sing with them and the woman filming had been asked at the last minute to grab her video camera because the lady they'd expected wasn't going to make it.

Regardless of what you think of Lavoy, listen to the fear in that truck... I firmly believe the intention was to get someone scared enough to either pull a weapon or try to bolt. My belief is that they intended to kill everyone in that truck.

And for what???? In this entire situation, not ONE of these people ever brandished a weapon or discharged a firearm!

a reply to: CornShucker

I won't be calling you full of anything -- except a good dose of common sense. I agree on all counts. I agree with Ammon's attorney that these are political prisoners posing no threat to anyone except the bad guys in government.

I've also noticed the media's insistance on using the terms "armed takeover" and "armed protesters", etc., as if the refuge was taken by armed force... not that it was sitting empty. Not just "unprotected," but totally unmanned. Technically, the terms are not incorrect, but are definitely and deliberately misleading.

It should also be noted that of the many threats to the Burns townsfolk attributed to the "armed protesters," there has been absolutely no proof of any harassment by protesters, and it could have been pretty much anyone making threats... including the many many plainclothes law enforcement agents in town who have NEVER been identified.

I haven't been a fan of the methods used by Bundy et al, though I've always understood and supported their efforts against the bad behavior of government. But they have definitely gotten the attention of the public -- and government. They saw injustice and did what they knew and what they could to fight that injustice, putting their lives and their livelihoods on the line for all of us. For that, they have my respect and appreciation.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: CornShucker

I won't be calling you full of anything -- except a good dose of common sense. I agree on all counts.

Apology for that. It was late and I didn't realize how that looked. I meant that in general, not toward you. Given some of the posts I expected to get hammered for daring to speak up for them. Thank you for giving me the chance to explain instead of pinning my ears back.

That accidental blank mess at the bottom of my post shows I should have been in bed already and not on the 'Net...

a reply to: Boadicea

what america was that ? the america that was founded by Satanists ? the america that experimented on its populace ?
the america who declared every citizen an enemy of the state ? without you knowing. that beacon of liberty that uses Egyptian obelisks ? the lady of liberty looking for her husbands fallace ?

a reply to: CornShucker

Apology for that.
It was late and I didn't realize how that looked. I meant that in general, not toward you. Given some of the posts I expected to get hammered for daring to speak up for them. Thank you for giving me the chance to explain instead of pinning my ears back.

No worries! Being attacked for one's opinion is to be expected -- no matter what that opinion is. It's really sad how common that is...

That accidental blank mess at the bottom of my post shows I should have been in bed already and not on the 'Net...

We've all been there... but no harm no foul. I'm glad you commented -- thank you!

originally posted by: kibric
a reply to: Boadicea

what america was that ? the america that was founded by Satanists ?

Make stuff up much? America was not founded by Satanists, which was not even a "thing" until the last century. Our nation was founded by Protestants of various persuasions who "protested" the authority and sovereignty of the Catholic church over them, in addition to the tyranny of England and putting corporate interests over the people's well being and best interests.

the america that experimented on its populace ?

The America that had to be lied to about cruel and inhumane experimentation on its populace because of the very real outrage and fury they would have faced if known... and was faced when it did become known. Of course, there have always and will always be those who would rather mock and belittle any such efforts to expose such bad behavior and make our public agents/officials accountable. But you know that already, don't you?

the america who declared every citizen an enemy of the state ?

Um, did you even read any of this OP? No. I'm the one calling them out for not only declaring every citizen an enemy of the state, but for treating us as an enemy of the state. I understand that WE ARE THE STATE.

... without you knowing. that beacon of liberty that uses Egyptian obelisks ? the lady of liberty looking for her husbands fallace ?

Um, I'm old, but not THAT old! So no, obviously I was not there to know at the time that Egyption symbols were being incorporated into our capitol's infrastructure, but I know now and I have known for some 30+ years. It's not a secret.

So is that really all you've got? You're going to leave a snarky comment to me about the bad behavior of government in a thread in which I'm calling out the bad behavior of government??? Oh dear...

a reply to: Boadicea

no dear its the patriotism that makes me wretch but i feel the same about every country including mine it wasnt an attack on you

and yes your founding fathers were masons who are Satanists maybe ignorant of what they had really joined up too

a reply to: Boadicea

sorry Boadicea it was not an attack just my frustration with governments

i mock and belittle patriotism of any country

most governments are foul in my opinion

a reply to: Boadicea

you have done a fine job calling out the bad behavior of government im just grumpy

a reply to: kibric

Yeah, I sure can't blame you for being cynical and angry with government... I am too!

So let's just chalk this up to growing pains and move on. I'm thinking we agree more than we disagree and we have many great conversations in our ATS future.

I think what bothers and worries me the most is the unabashed way that national media portrays anyone with a disagreement or grievance as "anti-government" immediately. We have some areas of the country where it is fair game to certainly say and almost do whatever you want and be called a "protester". In another, you can go into a deserted complex of buildings, wash the walls, bag up the trash and clutter, sweep the floors and kill the bugs, mice and rats that have been allowed to overrun the place and be labeled "armed, anti-government militants."

The public needs to know that one of the laws these men are being held under has the words "Death Penalty" in the actual name of the law!

How can we claim to be a country of laws when we have tenured college professors who've planted bombs, taken part in occupying federal buildings and destroying whole file cabinets of records that have never paid any legal penalty? How can people go through a parking garage and bust out windows of someone else's cars just because they wanted to come hear someone talk and not worry about the law? Yet a group of non-violent ranchers trying to get their story out into the public wind up in solitary confinement 23 hours a day and are warned that they are not allowed to discuss their case on the phone during their one chance a day to talk to their family?

Unlike the uncounted mass of newly arrived people that are given court dates and then released (un-monitored, that would be against their "Constitutional Rights"!), if these men were released on bond I can guarantee you where they'd be. They'd be back running the ranches that their women (some with small children) are now forced to try to keep going with the help of neighbors and the last male Bundy who just turned 18.

H*ll, for that matter, look at Pete Santilli. Anyone that wants to point out that he has a mouth on him won't get an argument from me. He wasn't, however, screaming in any LEO's face with a bandana covering his face. The only thing he ever carried was a cellphone, a laptop and a camera to report live from the scene. He could have easily slipped away and remained free 'til they eventually found him, but instead was arrested when he went to the LEOs and offered to be a go-between to help get the rest of the women and children out of Malhuer before something bad happened...

It is a real struggle not to let everything that is going on become depressing and dispiriting. At one time I entertained the idea of becoming an English instructor so words have a special place in my heart. The term anti-government is mutating into something it's never been before. When you are forced into fearing your own government and weighing each comment or action against what it might cost you, the very government that is creating that atmosphere makes the term self-fulfilling...

By the way, are these the same brainless morons who think that the Second Amendment means that they are allowed their guns in jail? You know, these dribbling idiots.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
By the way, are these the same brainless morons who think that the Second Amendment means that they are allowed their guns in jail?

Yes, they are the same brainless morons!

I'm calling this a "false poop" attack

I don't believe a word that guy says