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Mel Bundy Beaten, Starved, Tortured while being Unlawfully Imprisoned

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posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:18 PM
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originally posted by: DrThodt
a reply to: BrokedownChevy

Yes, they're claiming its for personal use...personal use to graze cattle for sale.

It's all very patriotic.


originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
So what are public lands for under socialist ideals? Designation as wildlife preserves as they mostly are now? Gotcha, Progressive socialists for wildlife preserves, agenda 21, and not for the people. By the way, the federal marshals destroyed the turtle habitat as they rushed to harass the people.


Public enjoyment of unadulterated lands.


oh yah never mind it was Harry Reid's family involved in the land in this mess....facts conveniently forgotten. It was a land grab by Reid family.
No, in designated wildlife preserves people are not allowed. This is not necessarily the national parks but other areas of wilderness land. Did you know that part of the Agenda 21 matrix, wildlands are being preserved as a way to keep humans out so that humans can be corralled into the bigger cities for easier control and for population control? Perhaps you are all for this, but sounds like head in sand syndrome with willingness to not see the truth with all that 'its for us all to enjoy" baloney....blah blah blah all bullsnip....




Under the Wildlands Project, wilderness areas with no roads are being created to keep human population from developing this land. Conservation organizations tout this plan as a way to protect nature, but in reality through conservation easements, Smart Growth, open space and greenlining, private property rights of American citizens are being transferred to these elite …
resistagenda21.com...

Do yourself and everyone else a favor and learn the truth. Note how much of the west is designated wildlands and federally controlled lands.

And did you also know that it is under the Totalitarian Communitarianism Agenda 21 that the elites seek population control and want us to stop eating beef? The real reason for this is that the elites think we are "useless eaters" and Progressive Marxists blame American affluence for the world' problems, and that beef eating and large homes are too affluent?
edit on 16-4-2016 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Bundy was grazing on public lands and refused to pay grazing fees, citing a territorial agreement his ancestors had long before statehood and the BLM trust. He was fined, refused to pay and was taken to court. A judgement was issued against him and he still refused to pay. So he was threatened with having his cattle seized that were caught grazing on public lands.

And here we are, he's no hero.

eta: In reply to your edited post, I don't have a problem at all with preserving wilderness. I'm a fan of Theodore Roosevelt and those who follow in his steps. There's more than enough land and technological capacity to provide for society without further raping the environment.
edit on 16-4-2016 by DrThodt because: modified reply to edited post

edit on 16-4-2016 by DrThodt because: typo



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:26 PM
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originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: Boadicea

The gov't is known for it's terrible acts but this is so outrageous I gotta wonder how much of it, if any, is true.

If it's true than they may as well fly him to GITMO because the accused there are treated better, slightly.
it's not that outrageous. I used to work in a Texas prison. That sort of treatment isn't too uncommon. Granted, it's not as prevalent as it once was what with the grievance system and all. Still, I'm not the least bit surprised, shocked, or in disbelief. I saw this sort of thing first-hand... But it was never political. It was always personal.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:30 PM
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a reply to: DrThodt




There's more than enough land and technological capacity to provide for society without further raping the environment.


You do not understand what is happening, I think from some kind of vapid refusal to see, nevertheless this is not really about raping the environment. that is an excuse by the elites for control and depopulation. The Rockefellers have been involved in it since Margaret Sanger opened up her American Birth Control League with financial support from them. Just look at the commandments on the Georgia Guidestones, they call for depopulation too. Facts are inconvenient aren't they...
Perhaps if a liberal Democrat gives you the facts...have fun with this.... www.youtube.com...
So please watch and pardon the caps but WAKE UP
oh yah and she talks about the NDAA, how its agenda 21 and she talks about how we are the enemy combatants.... and the world is the battlefield...and the audience she is speaking to is Tea Party activists....oh how the media lies....
edit on 16-4-2016 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:37 PM
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a reply to: DrThodt

Sounds like some kind of commune specifically designed to suit the needs of their posse. I wanted to hike that area with my peaceful family, but now that the public land has been taken away by these armed thugs, well, I don't know what my children will be able to do.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:47 PM
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a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Please cease your tangential non-sequitur. I raise points specific to Bundy's character, intentions and his history of legal issues which lead up to all of this and rather than admitting he has no interest in the people and only seeks to line his own pockets, you come out of left-field with this asinine nonsense.

If you wish to actually discuss the Bundy's and the matter at hand I'll gladly engage in meaningful discourse with you, but if you insist on continually changing the terms of the debate then I'm done.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:49 PM
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a reply to: BrokedownChevy

It's a beautiful area, it's too bad it's also equally dangerous at the moment. Being occupied with armed domestic terrorists who consider you an enemy if you don't support their insane cause.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:52 PM
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Let me preface my reply by saying that the topic of the thread is not what the Bundys did, but what the authorities are doing, and you would seem to be derailing the thread; but you also seem to be making the point that it's okay for the authorities to abuse them because of their previous actions, so I will address your comments in that sense. But let it be clear, my position is that it does not matter what any prisoner has done, absolutely no abuse or brutality by public officials is acceptable.


originally posted by: DrThodt
a reply to: Boadicea

They emphatically broke the law, and for personal greed ...


Granted that neither you nor I can truly know what is in they're hearts and minds, they believe otherwise; they believe that they are defending all the people by defending the constitution and its founding principles. And, as well, they also had nothing to gain personally by standing up for the Hammonds, and others they have stood up for in various ways. You can assume greed is their only motivation, but their words and deeds indicate otherwise.


... but you can't turn your back on a claim that lacks credibility coming from (allegedly) an unethical source


Of course you can. You can rationalize and make excuses for doing so to your heart's content, but it is what it is. I'm not sure what source you are referring to as allegedly unethical -- especially since the accusations are coming from an attorney, Bundy, and Bundy wives -- but I would also ask why no "ethical" and "credible" sources are even addressing these accusations? I've known about it for several days, and waited for official sources to investigate and/or address them, and no one has. Why?


If it turns out these baseless allegations are in fact true, naturally I'll resent the government even more but that still won't make these people patriots or right.


Gotcha. But I appreciate that you can separate the bad behavior of one from the bad behavior of the other, and consider each on their own merits.


You shouldn't rally behind people who have such a blatant bias before first fact-checking and verifying yourself from credible sources.


I did try to find "credible" sources... and I posted the most credible sources I could find. Please don't take my word for it -- look for yourself and please share anything you find that you consider relevant.

As far as those with a "blatant bias," I am not sure who you are referring to; but if it's the Bundy attorney and the Bundys, yeah, they would be biased. But their claims still need to be investigated and addressed.


They want to graze on public lands for free for commercial purposes.


No, actually, they don't. They have refused to pay their grazing fees to the federal government, but have tried to pay their grazing fees to the local government (state or county, maybe both), who the Bundys maintain are the rightful authority. As I noted in the OP, his attorney maintains that:


...the government being scared to actually go to court against Cliven Bundy have their roots in a April 2014 Bureau of Land Management claim that they are worried that Bundy may just have prescriptive rights and that his defense may just use that should his case see the inside of a courtroom.



Are you saying you don't have a problem with the corporate rape of public lands?


I have a huge problem with corporate rape of public lands. I especially have a problem with the huge international mining and energy corporations trying to buy our national lands and our natural resources... and the corrupt politicians trying so hard to sell it to them -- and sell us out! Like the land right next to Bundy's ranch that Harry Reid and his son were trying so hard to sell to a Chinese energy company... after Reid got his buddy in at the BLM and ran every other rancher off their land. The Bundys were the hold outs. The Bundys made sure that deal from the devil did not happen.
edit on 16-4-2016 by Boadicea because: formatting



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: DrThodt

I will not cease speaking out on the truth just because you don't like it. Sorry but yah know Im really not sorry.
How about you give up your attachment to the lying media and their Progressive ideals.

Koire says, "Awareness is the first step in the resistance."

I double dog dare you to listen to Rosa Koire.....and then get back to me.
edit on 16-4-2016 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:56 PM
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a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Agreed. I just don't know why the Bundys would let the media lie for them like that. They appear to fit in well with the socialist propaganda scheme setup for them.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:58 PM
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originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: Boadicea

Conveniently, it is Progressives and Occupy demanding the right to direct and participatory democracy are the first to decry the Bundy Patriots and their supporters their right to redress even under our Constitution....figure that


It's really sad how uninformed and misinformed so many people are about the basic principles we all need to rally around, that apply equally to all of the ways government abuses their power with pretty much everyone.

It's part of our challenge to set the ship right again.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 05:00 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese
a reply to: Boadicea

First they came for the blacks, but you stood aside because you are not black.

Then they came for the muslims, but you stood aside because you are not a muslim.


No, I did not and I do not. Feel free to check my posting history. I will let my words stand on their own merit.

But I do realize that many do... on all sides. It's part of the divide-and-conquer game that keeps us fighting each other instead of them.

Get a grip the comment was targetted at those who do DUH!



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 05:00 PM
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originally posted by: BrokedownChevy
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Agreed. I just don't know why the Bundys would let the media lie for them like that. They appear to fit in well with the socialist propaganda scheme setup for them.


I'm not sure what you mean about the Bundys fitting into the socialist thing. The media is not lying for the Bundys. This is about Agenda 21. Maybe you could listen to Rosa Koire too.... then you will get it and get what I am talking about. The Bundys are cattle ranchers...they raise beef for us affluent people....
edit on 16-4-2016 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 05:02 PM
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a reply to: BrokedownChevy


They hate democracy...


We don't have a democracy. They hate the abuse of people and rights by government.


...and cause violence wherever they go.


No one can cause violence; one can only commit violence -- and the Bundys did not. Everyone decides for themselves if they will commit violence upon another. Including government officials with badges and guns.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 05:10 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Maybe they do believe what they're doing is patriotic, but the inescapable fact is it all started by supporting someone illegally grazing on public lands.

I could just as easily accuse you of rationalizing any excuse to lend support. The difference is I'm waiting for verifiable sources before leaping to conclusions. Like a court filing outlining said abuses.

Thank you for recognizing fault can be observed from both sides.

As far as I'm aware, Bundy has made no effort to pay the State either. He simply said he would only pay the state once control of lands were ceded back. Which in my opinion is an excuse to simply avoid paying. And this is why, Nevada lacks the funding to manage the lands themselves, so if they eliminated their agreement with the BLM trust and acquired control, they would be forced to sell the lands to replenish their coffers as they're incapable of preserving them. Which helps both Bundy and Reid (@ThirdEyeofHorus). They do not want to pay grazing fees to manage lands, they simply want to own and graze the lands, then move on to the next patch and ruin it. And yes Nevada is the sole sovereign of their lands, but they gave the BLM trust the capacity to manage it on Nevada's behalf because as I said, Nevada can't afford to preserve the land.

This whole issue is about selling off public lands for commercial exploitation. But just because the Bundy's look like redneck cowboys, people think they're patriotic Americans.
edit on 16-4-2016 by DrThodt because: grammar



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: yorkshirelad


Get a grip the comment was targetted at those who do DUH!


Get a grip? Really? The reply was specifically addressed to me both via reply formatting and by the specific use of the pronoun "you" as opposed "some people" or "lots of people" or another broad nonspecific target. I can correct the misrepresentation -- intentional or not -- as I see fit. And I did.

Funny... I didn't see you addressed at all and yet you felt it necessary and appropriate to interject... but I need to get a grip? Okay.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 05:40 PM
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originally posted by: DrThodt
a reply to: Boadicea

Maybe they do believe what they're doing is patriotic, but the inescapable fact is it all started by supporting someone illegally grazing on public lands.


As I have read the record -- which is very long and convoluted -- no, it started with various abuses of power and force by federal agents against Bundy and across the country:

Threats, Intimidation and Bullying by Federal Land Managing Agencies

ATS Discussion Thread


I could just as easily accuse you of rationalizing any excuse to lend support. The difference is I'm waiting for verifiable sources before leaping to conclusions. Like a court filing outlining said abuses.


You can accuse me or anyone of anything... as can I... as can anyone.

I am not sure what you mean by verifiable sources.... the court filings and reporting verify that the accusations have been made. But who can/would verify the abuse? Do you think any public agent is going to come forward and confess to his crimes? Do you think they will provide photo/video evidence? Who do you think should be this verifiable source?

And if that verifiable source does not come? Then we just ignore any accusations and not demand accountability from our public officials???


Thank you for recognizing fault can be observed from both sides.


Of course. I've always said that I cannot and do not condone the Bundys methods, but I sure agree that the feds (and others) are abusing their power and need to be stopped and held accountable.


As far as I'm aware, Bundy has made no effort to pay the State either.


At the time of the Nevada standoff, I read court filings in which Bundy claimed it was state-owned land and that he would pay his grazing fees to the state, and the court/state refused to take them. I cannot find a link now. Everything I'm finding is about the most recent court filings.


He simply said he would only pay the state once control of lands were ceded back.


I haven't heard that, but it doesn't necessarily conflict with the court filings I did see. That would make sense for him to say after a court refuses his motion.


Which in my opinion is an excuse to simply avoid paying.


Speculation.


And this is why, Nevada lacks the funding to manage the lands themselves, so if they eliminated their agreement with the BLM trust and acquired control, they would be forced to sell the lands to replenish their coffers as they're incapable of preserving them.


That is debatable... however, there is no good reason for any government to own that much land and it should be disposed of... but TO THE PEOPLE. We have a housing crisis in this nation. People need land to live and work and produce. We need a new -- and improved -- Homestead Act that distributes as much of that land as possible to the people for our best interests.

By all means we can retain our national parks and wildlife preserves. But we can also give much of that land to the people, as should have been done originally.


This whole issue is about selling off public lands for commercial exploitation.


Yup. And the Bundys are standing in the way of the crony capitalists trying to make that happen.


But just because the Bundy's look like redneck cowboys, people think they're patriotic Americans.


Maybe a few... a very few. There are also those who judge them harshly "just because the Bundy's look like redneck cowboys."



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 05:48 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea






That is debatable... however, there is no good reason for any government to own that much land and it should be disposed of... but TO THE PEOPLE. We have a housing crisis in this nation.


Yes, absolutely. I know someone who lives and works in Jacksonhole, Wyoming. There are extremely wealthy people living there, but there is a housing crisis there for the average person because most of the land is owned by the government. It is also interesting the least populated state in the US.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 05:55 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
but what the authorities are doing,


Wrong, what some people claim they are doing, with zero evidence to back that claim up.



but I would also ask why no "ethical" and "credible" sources are even addressing these accusations?


Because they know they are just made up crap.


I've known about it for several days, and waited for official sources to investigate and/or address them, and no one has. Why?


Because there is nothing to actually investigate...



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 05:57 PM
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a reply to: DrThodt




This whole issue is about selling off public lands for commercial exploitation. But just because the Bundy's look like redneck cowboys, people think they're patriotic Americans.


Are you for real? What commercial exploitation? The selling of beef to the American public? I told you this is about Agenda 21 and the elites don't think we don't deserve to eat beef and the Marxists for sure think Americans are too affluent and must have our desire to eat beef crushed beneath their altruistic vegetarian feet.
Yah I'm right in the middle of cowboy country and I find your comments to be incredibly New York snobbish. Right here is where the battle is being fought. I've been to the Delphi meetings where they use surveys to manipulate public opinion. I've been to the land management meetings. I've directly seen how they got responses from a neighboring city instead of the ranchers in the county, how they manipulated the times of the meetings and the ability for the ranchers to take time off for responses. If you eat beef and/or grains from the Northwest...shame shame on you.



If you wish to actually discuss the Bundy's and the matter at hand


I AM discussing the Bundys. I'm discussing the REAL agenda behind the BLM land grab and now the abuse they suffered in prison. Don't like my approach too bad.
edit on 16-4-2016 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)




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