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Mel Bundy Beaten, Starved, Tortured while being Unlawfully Imprisoned

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posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 02:18 PM
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originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Boadicea

So true. And is this not also the case considering the absence of proof of these allegations?


Of course -- that was my point.


AS another poster pointed out, the sources of this testimony have been shown to be overly zealous in previous testimony already.


I would dispute that, both literally and figuratively, since we do know that Ammon Bundy and his attorney have addressed the abuse both in court and in court filings; but even understanding they may be crying wolf one too many times, the accusations need to be addressed.


I concur that the litany of abuse and torture along with video proof in other cases does give cause to investigate and correct the problems as cited. However I again have to wonder at the celebrity of these captives. The vast percentage of the abuses we all know are happening are in regards to little known individuals, individuals whose abuse would go unnoticed and uncared about by the vaster population.


I cannot speak for the whole world, but I don't believe that the greater population does not care. In fact, as ever more folks are personally feeling the heavy hand of the government in their personal lives, I believe that ever more folks are ever more concerned.


But in this case, these are high profile prisoners, prisoners whose proven abuse could not as likely go unnoticed. Would not the prison system take more caution?


One would think so... one would hope so... but then again, they may have gotten away with so much already that they think they can get away with anything. If they know (or believe) there will be no accountability, they have nothing to lose.


However are not the lawyers also 'authority' in these cases? Do they not have the right and opportunity to at least concur with these familial statements? Do they also not have the right to counter sue and bring charges against the prison system?


Actually, as I understand it, no. Lawyers are not authorities and have no real power... to wit, despite Ammon Bundy's constitutional right to legal representation which supercedes any court "rules", his attorney was removed from the court. Ammon Bundy had no legal counsel in court.

Further, we know there have been gag orders issued. We know there have been sealed filings. We do not know what all has or has not been ordered by the court. It is possible that the attorneys have been "gagged" to one extent or another. It is also possible that their filings have been sealed from public view. And while they have the power to sue, they have no power to bring charges against anyone.


If true, these allegations need, in order to bring about the changes you and I would hope for, to be brought before the broader public.


You're right. So where is the mainstream media? Why aren't they reporting about any of this? Why aren't they investigating? Why aren't they demanding answers? Where are our elected officials -- and would-be elected officials? Where are the authorities responding to any of these accusations? I've looked.


Should the lawyers bring these charges forth there would be a much better chance that these allegations will gain broader scrutiny then by just a smattering of self proclaimed patriots.


Which may very well be why gag orders have been issued... to make sure that doesn't happen.


And yes, more than dramatic. The allegations are horrendous, unconscionable and unacceptable, as well as uncivilized, un Christian, barbaric inhumane,, and on and on.


Thank you for expanding



However I am also sure that there are many who knee jerk support these prisoners who would also knee jerk defend these tactic against those who they do not agree with.


So am I. But this attitude is also unconscionable and unacceptable. I hope this thread -- and future threads I author -- serve to help us all move past all that.


So for me, I want to hear from the defense lawyers, let them bring forth this treatment.


Yes, I would like to hear from them as well... and from those accused and those with the power and authority to investigate and address the accusations.




posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

You seem grounded in your considerations. Thanks.

but even understanding they may be crying wolf one too many times, the accusations need to be addressed.


Indeed. But who could do this? It is my understanding that grand juries have the constitutional right to investigate crimes and allegations concerning cases brought before them. And as I recall even have rights to visit prisons to assess things with in their purview. I do not know if a grand jury has voted yet to come down on all the charges being levied and turned them into indictments. If not then might they be able to call these allegations to light?

Granted, in so many cases a grand jury serves only as a rubber stamp to the district attorney but as a constitutional authority, they might have the power to investigate.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 03:02 PM
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originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Boadicea

You seem grounded in your considerations. Thanks.


Thank you!


but even understanding they may be crying wolf one too many times, the accusations need to be addressed.



Indeed. But who could do this?


Maybe that's part of the problem we should be looking at, and ultimately correcting. Who can and should be doing this? Why isn't there a clear path for addressing and redressing their greivances? (I can't help but note this is what brought the Bundy's to this point to begin with: The failure of the system to address their grievances... and the subsequent bullying, threats, intimidation and other abuses of power and force by the authorities.)


It is my understanding that grand juries have the constitutional right to investigate crimes and allegations concerning cases brought before them.


I'm not sure about that. Take the following with a grain of salt (and a shot of tequila if you're so inclined
) but I know that many have complained that the grand jury as originally intended and established has gradually had their power taken away under color of law. At one time, yes, citizen grand juries could convene themselves and bring charges against anyone and everyone, including public officials. Now they are confined to only being convened by the proper authorities, and can only consider those specific charges brought against specific defendants. One article I read referred to the current grand jury as "castrated."


Granted, in so many cases a grand jury serves only as a rubber stamp to the district attorney but as a constitutional authority, they might have the power to investigate.


If they don't, maybe they should. At the very least, giving some real power back to the citizens would serve as an effective deterrent against public officials, and a powerful tool for the people.

You and I shouldn't have to wonder, much less argue. We should have a means to find answers and act accordingly.
edit on 16-4-2016 by Boadicea because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-4-2016 by Boadicea because: formatting... grrrrr!



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 03:14 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

None of these sources are credible.

I also refuse to trust anyone who looks at these people as patriots. They are domestic-terrorists, political-dissidents and they do not embody the spirit of America.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 03:34 PM
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originally posted by: DrThodt
a reply to: Boadicea

None of these sources are credible.

I also refuse to trust anyone who looks at these people as patriots. They are domestic-terrorists, political-dissidents and they do not embody the spirit of America.


Gotcha -- you will turn your back (and a blind eye) because you don't like the targets and/or the sources.

Makes perfect sense that you "refuse to trust anyone who looks at these people as patriots." Knowing that you cannot be trusted... that you will, again, turn your back (and a blind eye) because you don't like the targets and/or sources, you would have to believe the same about others.

Well, you don't trust me then, but that's okay. I don't trust you either. The difference is that if you were the one telling me that you had been abused by public officials, I would stand up for you and demand an investigation -- and, if proven true, demand restitution for you and criminal charges against your abusers... even knowing that you would throw me to the wolves because you don't like me or trust me.

And whether you know it or not, or like it or not, the Bundys have and are standing for you and your rights as well as their own.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 03:44 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea
We have allowed a fascist Police State to flourish and prevail even under a leftist leadership in govt. That should be enough to prove that fascist totalitarianism is not right wing. When Patriots who believe in the Constitution and private property rights are tortured by dictatorship in govt that should wake up a few people. Will it, or will people still look the other way wishing to blame all our problems on the right wing ? In fact this is exactly what Jonah Goldberg is talking about in his book, "Liberal Fascism".


edit on 16-4-2016 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 03:48 PM
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originally posted by: DrThodt
a reply to: Boadicea

None of these sources are credible.

I also refuse to trust anyone who looks at these people as patriots. They are domestic-terrorists, political-dissidents and they do not embody the spirit of America.


Oh right but if they are Occupy Wall Street communists and they hate capitalism and free enterprise and private property rights and think they are going to make a difference by making us pay financial transaction fees they are true patriots....is that what you mean?
Let me know when you wake up from your Utopian slumber



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

I don't deny having disdain for these folks. They emphatically broke the law, and for personal greed, but you can't turn your back on a claim that lacks credibility coming from (allegedly) an unethical source. If it turns out these baseless allegations are in fact true, naturally I'll resent the government even more but that still won't make these people patriots or right.

You shouldn't rally behind people who have such a blatant bias before first fact-checking and verifying yourself from credible sources.

And no they aren't. They want to graze on public lands for free for commercial purposes. Are you saying you don't have a problem with the corporate rape of public lands?



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea






At one time, yes, citizen grand juries could convene themselves and bring charges against anyone and everyone, including public officials. Now


Conveniently, it is Progressives and Occupy demanding the right to direct and participatory democracy are the first to decry the Bundy Patriots and their supporters their right to redress even under our Constitution....figure that



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Bundy got a redress, he lost. So he sought the help of a bunch of domestic terrorists looking for any excuse to go to war.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Sounds like some good Americans taking care of some nasty socialists.


I'm just glad that they got rid of these thugs. They hate democracy and cause violence wherever they go.
edit on 16-4-2016 by BrokedownChevy because: Needed to say more about how the Bundys are evil communists



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:00 PM
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a reply to: BrokedownChevy

Firstly, there's nothing wrong with socialism. Unions are an American institution and are socialist as well as all the national infrastructure you use daily.

Secondly, these people aren't socialists. They're fighting for Bundy's "right" to commercially graze public lands free of charge. For his benefit, not ours.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:03 PM
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a reply to: DrThodt

Pretty sure they're claiming the land for their own purposes. They want to setup some kind of commune where they give themselves free services such as monetary gain from the exploitation of falsely claimed land.


I can't stand socialists.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan






think that if the people that fought and died for this country knew the truth behind their fighting and dying, we would find out that it was never a nation of principles.


Might you have gotten a hold of some Progressive history revision? Sounds like the communist Howard Zinn personally.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:06 PM
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a reply to: BrokedownChevy




posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

I heard this Bundy keeps copies of all Zinn's work underneath his pillow. These people worship the idea of a prison planet. May liberty prevail.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:12 PM
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originally posted by: DrThodt
a reply to: BrokedownChevy

Firstly, there's nothing wrong with socialism. Unions are an American institution and are socialist as well as all the national infrastructure you use daily.

Secondly, these people aren't socialists. They're fighting for Bundy's "right" to commercially graze public lands free of charge. For his benefit, not ours.


So what are public lands for under socialist ideals? Designation as wildlife preserves as they mostly are now? Gotcha, Progressive socialists for wildlife preserves, agenda 21, and not for the people. By the way, the federal marshals destroyed the turtle habitat as they rushed to harass the people. Totalitarianism was never for the people anyway. It was always for control of the population and land and resources for the elites and their cronies. The ends always justify the means for them.
edit on 16-4-2016 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:14 PM
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a reply to: BrokedownChevy

Yes, they're claiming its for personal use...personal use to graze cattle for sale.

It's all very patriotic.


originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
So what are public lands for under socialist ideals? Designation as wildlife preserves as they mostly are now? Gotcha, Progressive socialists for wildlife preserves, agenda 21, and not for the people. By the way, the federal marshals destroyed the turtle habitat as they rushed to harass the people.


Public enjoyment of unadulterated lands.
edit on 16-4-2016 by DrThodt because: preventing double-post



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: Boadicea
We have allowed a fascist Police State to flourish and prevail even under a leftist leadership in govt. That should be enough to prove that fascist totalitarianism is not right wing. When Patriots who believe in the Constitution and private property rights are tortured by dictatorship in govt that should wake up a few people. Will it, or will people still look the other way wishing to blame all our problems on the right wing ? In fact this is exactly what Jonah Goldberg is talking about in his book, "Liberal Fascism".


Yes, you're right. Left/right is indeed another way we divide ourselves and excuse/rationalize bad behavior against the "enemy." It's got to change. For the ones abusing their power, they don't care who you are... it's about them, not you. They don't care about left and right or Black and White or anything else EXCEPT to the extent they can play us to divide-and-conquer.

It's about power... and for the power hungry, no amount of power is ever enough.




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