Mel Bundy Beaten, Starved, Tortured while being Unlawfully Imprisoned

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Boadicea

I don't agree with the Bundys' positions on most anything, I particularly don't agree with their tactics, I usually don't agree with you in regards to the Bundys and I definitely don't agree with this (from your first source, my bold):

This is an election year with one of the worse miscarriages of justice in our history and not one candidate — NOT ONE — will come to the defense of these men and women and demand that at the very least, they be treated humanely?!!

--

I can appreciate and respect that.

... but if what is being reported on these sites is true, then it is indeed cruel, inhumane treatment. This should be investigated and if the allegations are born out by the evidence, then those responsible should be held be held accountable.

And I can appreciate and respect that!

I see very little gray area here or room for debate. Everyone, without exception, is entitled to equal protection of the law including humane treatment and due process.

Yes -- thank you!

I'm curious why this is coming from Mel Bundy's wife and LaVoy Finicum's daughter and published on websites that are clearly dedicated to promoting the "militia movement" point of view rather than from the attorneys for either man in any other media at all?

I'd like to know that too. And I looked. I found two mainstream media sources which covered the filings by the attorney for Ammon Bundy about the solitary confinement and political prisoner reference. One was the Las Vegas Review Journal (which I posted in the OP), and the other was the Oregonian (which I did not link, and can't find now). I could find very little at all about Mel Bundy -- and nothing from or about his attorney. In fact, this was the first I even heard of Mel! I did find references to him being arrested in the Oregonian and elsewhere, so he's real. But rather a mystery.

There are some sealed filings. Don't know what that's about. There may be gag orders in place. I've found some references to gag orders, but other than the link about the judge lifting the gag order on Shawna Cox, I can't find anything official (yay or nay) for the others.

ETA: Sorry if you tried to read that mess before I fixed the formatting

a reply to: hellobruce

Sorry -- I missed this the first time! I'm glad you hit "reply" so I saw it...

Okay, gotcha about the Bundys et al. But even if -- and that's a big "if" in my book -- the Bundy women are lying through their teeth, what about the many many other examples of abuse by LE and government agents?

Or are you one of those who picks and chooses who "deserves" such abuse? Is your outrage and/or lack thereof dependent on the target/victim as opposed to the abuse?

a reply to: Boadicea

So what is the saying you guys like to say when someone of color breaks the law...oh yeah.."don't break the law then and that crap won't happen to you" or is that just for people of color?

originally posted by: FullBloodedNative
a reply to: Boadicea

So what is the saying you guys like to say when someone of color breaks the law...oh yeah.."don't break the law then and that crap won't happen to you" or is that just for people of color?

No. That's not me. That's not anyone in this thread. And if you had read through the thread, you would have known that.

For that matter, if you read the OP, you would know that I posted further information regarding such abuse and brutality across the county, and specifically in Chicago, in order to highlight this isn't about race, creed, or color, nor size or shape, or any of the superficial labels we throw around.

This is an effort to inform and discuss the problem of government abuse and force on citizens under color of law, and its solutions. Please join us.

a reply to: grahag

These people are known liars and will say anything to fit their agenda. Any mistreatment they might get while in prison is very likely deserved.

And the police never lie?

Police Officers Filing False Reports

www.lacriminaldefensepartners.com...

POLICE AND DISTRICT ATTORNEYS LYING IN COURT

www.srhunterlaw.com...

Why do police lie? Insight from a Florida judge

www.copblock.org...

The Hard Truth About Cops Who Lie

www.wnyc.org...

Police Misconduct Leading to Wrongful Convictions

resources.lawinfo.com...

This is just a little example to how truthful many policemen are.

In case you didn't know we are a Nation of laws and the fact is, police are not above the laws in our Nation.

That is why we have a Constitution and a due process of the law for ALL AMERICANS. The Bundy's do not deserve to be treated like animals.

How would you react if the police treated you and your children the way they have treated the Bundy's?

There's only one reason they're in prison right now. They didn't play by the rules of the system.

I have to disagree with your statement.

The Bundy's are in jail for many things however The Powers That Be do not like to be challenge when THEY are the one's breaking the laws.

The Bundy's stood up to the BLM for trying to steal their cattle at gun point, with snipers on helicopters, horseback, caring machine guns. Also the BLM kept raising cattle, and gazing fees which forced all the ranchers around the Bundy's ranch to go bankrupt and they had to sell their properties to the BLM, which now's brings up corrupt Senator Harry Reid and son who was buying up all the land around the Bundy's ranch.

Harry Reid and son wanted the Bundy's ranch, anyway they could get it, so corrupt Harry Reid put one of his own men to run BLM to gain control.

It was proven a year or two ago that Harry Reid and son had a five million dollar sell land deal with Chinese for their solar power plant.

The Bundy's where protecting their land from criminals in our government. Sure they may not went about it the right way in your opinion, however they tried the Court system and it failed for them.

Some times that system goes against you and then you pull your britches up and just deal with it like an adult. I'm all about protesting, but bringing a gun to a protest is negating your argument by stating that you're willing to use violence to back up your argument.

That's why the second Amendment was invented, The Right To Bare Arms. It was invented so We The People can protect ourselves from a Tyrannical Government. The Bundy's had a legal right under the law to protect themselves and their land from a well known criminal government who's intention was to take the Bundy's ranch at any cost for Senator Harry Reid personal gains, a five million dollar gain.

They made their bed and now they get to occupy a federal facility that doesn't put up with their #...

Perhaps you feel you are doing a patriotic thing by making such statement, on the contrary, you are not patriotic by any means by supporting a Tyrannical Government.

Jeezuz you peeps need to understand something very basic
EVERYBODY LIES !!!
That's how it is in the real world....
You think propaganda is the sole property of Unca Sam??
When courts convene and charges are laid ,THE LAWYERS THE COPS THE DEFENDANTS ALL LIE TO MAKE THEIR CASES.....
SORRY ABOUT THAT.....
BUT THATS WHY JUSTICE IS A GROUP THING....That's why jurys are picked to figure this stuff out in court...
That's where JURY ANNULLMENT COMES FROM.....

a reply to: Boadicea

Terrorism is the illegal use of violence and intimidation with the goal of bringing about (political/religious/social) change.

Clearly, there is a percentage of US law enforcement agents involved in this case that fit the very definition of a "terrorist" and for them to be labeled any other name would simply be inaccurate.

These individuals who swore an oath to protect the constitution and general public from threats against their security and safety are hypocrites and are simply doing more harm than good to the US's international reputation for justice and freedom.

IMO, the US governments' representatives involved in this case have acted very unprofessionally and are operating more like a criminal gang than righteous keepers of the law.

I'm surprised they didn't send him to the black site in Chicago. They wouldn't have to worry about leaks like this and all the good Americans would march on.


But they #ed up.

a reply to: bandersnatch

Yes! I brought up jury nullification earlier too. There was a time when juries were informed that they were to try both the facts and the law. If juries feel either the law is unjust, or the law is being applied unjustly, then they have the right to vote "not guilty."

If the authorities won't let the people know, we'll have to let each other know...

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Very well said, and I agree. Our government is using terrorist tactics against the people.

I find it especially outrageous that most of the charges against the Bundys -- and so many others -- are charges for acts against the government or its agents... i.e., they are political prisoners... not for crimes against the people.

originally posted by: Flesh699
I'm surprised they didn't send him to the black site in Chicago. They wouldn't have to worry about leaks like this and all the good Americans would march on.


But they #ed up.

I had the same thought as I was reading about the Chicago black site. I bet they're wishing they had done it all different now... I don't think this has played out the way they wanted or expected.

People behave as of this kind of UN Constitutional response by local PD and their Federal 'Oversight' is something new. They should study US history a little more. It is full of abuse by the gubment and the town sheriff.

a reply to: intrptr

Sadly, you're right. Government abuses against the people have always been and always will be; hence the need for "eternal vigilance."

Maybe what's changed is the attitude of the people. Too many people are quite happy to turn a blind eye -- or even cheer and applaud -- government abuses when they think the victims/targets "deserve" it. Perhaps it's part and parcel of the nanny state mentality so to speak... If they can do it for us, then they can do it to us as well. I have no doubt it's part of the divide-and-conquer mentality. If no one will stand up for their fellow citizen, their battle is already half won.

ETA: And part of the terrorist mentality of the government as well no doubt... make sure even those who do recognize the evil are too afraid to stand up to the government.

a reply to: Boadicea

Yah, we're wrong to question our Authorities. And if not the label they provide for public consumption will convince us. They were religious nutters, thug gangsters, agitators, commie fifth columnists, anti americans…

That way after the flames die down and the smoke and bodies are cleared away we can all go back to our little corner convinced by the media they got what they deserved.

a reply to: intrptr

You nailed it. But it gives me no pleasure to say so. In fact, it's downright pathetic how easily we're played. And I do not exclude myself. I'm learning, but there's been too many times that I got that awful sinking feeling when I finally realized how wrong I was about something and had to check my own ego. The thing is, these folks have thought long and hard to figure out how to play us... for those of us who don't think that way, we're constantly playing catch up.

a reply to: Boadicea

Then know this also. The abuse is designed mostly to teach a lesson to people, not the ones imprisoned necessarily, but for all the other lemmings out there that are intimidated by that gestapo style tactic to keep them in line…

This is from yesterday:

Bundy brothers, three others refuse to enter pleas in Bunkerville standoff

Ammon Bundy, the alleged leader of the Oregon takeover, told Foley in court that he has been mistreated by jailers since arriving in Las Vegas earlier in the week, including not being fed and being handcuffed for 23 hours in one stretch.

Before his case was called, his Oregon defense lawyer, Mike Arnold, was ordered to leave the courtroom after he was observed using his cellphone in the gallery. Security officers had warned people ahead of time that they risked being removed if caught using a phone.

(Rules are rules, but a defendant's Constitutional right to legal representation takes precedence over arbitrary rules of the court...)

Two other Bundy sons, Melvin and David, were among the 19 people charged in a 16-count federal indictment in Las Vegas last month in connection with the Bunkerville confrontation. They are being held without bail.

a reply to: theantediluvian

I'm curious why this is coming from Mel Bundy's wife and LaVoy Finicum's daughter and published on websites that are clearly dedicated to promoting the "militia movement" point of view rather than from the attorneys for either man in any other media at all?

I have to wonder about this also. I also have to wonder why so many here in this thread seem to have no doubts or concerns about the veracity of these reports. These reports are dramatic. Very dramatic, true or not. Yet, again, so many demonstrate no incredulity and toss out stars of approval.

If one wanted, one could suggest that if the stories are not true and indeed overly zealous and embellished emotion generators, then the hoped for incitement has been successful here at ATS.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I have to wonder about this also. I also have to wonder why so many here in this thread seem to have no doubts or concerns about the veracity of these reports.

I would have to suggest that after the many many reports of abuse, torture and death, not to mention countless videos of people being gunned down by LE enforcement and government agents (including but certainly not limited to LaVoy Finicum), and of course understanding that the foundation of law is to suspect, question and demand proof of the "enforcers" but the presumption of innocence for the accused, that it is common sense and civic duty to assume the worst.

ETA: And to demand an investigation and accountability where appropriate.

These reports are dramatic. Very dramatic, true or not. Yet, again, so many demonstrate no incredulity and toss out stars of approval.

More than just dramatic... horrendous, unconscionable and unacceptable. If the stories aren't true, what harm is done to follow up? None. The authorities are given every opportunity to prove otherwise. As they should. With great power comes great responsibility.

But if the stories are true, no follow-up simply empowers the abusers and perpetuates the problem. Which is worse?

If one wanted, one could suggest that if the stories are not true and indeed overly zealous and embellished emotion generators, then the hoped for incitement has been successful here at ATS.

Yes, one could suggest and deny anything they want in the absence of proof and accountability...

a reply to: Boadicea

Yes, one could suggest and deny anything they want in the absence of proof and accountability...

.. So true. And is this not also the case considering the absence of proof of these allegations? AS another poster pointed out, the sources of this testimony have been shown to be overly zealous in previous testimony already.

I concur that the litany of abuse and torture along with video proof in other cases does give cause to investigate and correct the problems as cited. However I again have to wonder at the celebrity of these captives. The vast percentage of the abuses we all know are happening are in regards to little known individuals, individuals whose abuse would go unnoticed and uncared about by the vaster population. But in this case, these are high profile prisoners, prisoners whose proven abuse could not as likely go unnoticed. Would not the prison system take more caution?

More than just dramatic... horrendous, unconscionable and unacceptable. If the stories aren't true, what harm is done to follow up? None. The authorities are given every opportunity to prove otherwise. As they should. With great power comes great responsibility.

Again, how true. However are not the lawyers also 'authority' in these cases? Do they not have the right and opportunity to at least concur with these familial statements? Do they also not have the right to counter sue and bring charges against the prison system?

If true, these allegations need, in order to bring about the changes you and I would hope for, to be brought before the broader public. Allegations put forth by militia websites by people already marginalized by what many consider to be reactionary rhetoric will not suffice to gain the attention of the vaster public. Simple. At best they pay attention to half an hour of news from the MSM once or twice a week.

Should the lawyers bring these charges forth there would be a much better chance that these allegations will gain broader scrutiny then by just a smattering of self proclaimed patriots.

And yes, more than dramatic. The allegations are horrendous, unconscionable and unacceptable, as well as uncivilized, un Christian, barbaric inhumane,, and on and on. However I am also sure that there are many who knee jerk support these prisoners who would also knee jerk defend these tactic against those who they do not agree with.

So for me, I want to hear from the defense lawyers, let them bring forth this treatment.