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HB2, North Carolina mandate to hate homosexuals.

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posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 07:51 AM
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originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: network dude
the reason for the OP was all the confused ideas about what this bill actually was for. Everyone seems to think it's about radical right wing Christians enacting legislation to put the LGBT community in their place. It's not.


You're clearly either trolling or in deep denial, numerous people here have pointed out the stupidity and hypocrisy in your claims, and you keep ignoring them and banging on with the same nonsense.

This law is not just about transgender bathrooms. This law allows the specific discrimination against all LGBT people across the state, it specifically places those with "faith" above all others in law, which is unconstitutional at the very least.

You can keep trying to ignore that all you damn well like, it won't make that reality go away.

Not that any of this matters of course, these laws will be repealed in all of these states and the Christian fanatics will once again be shown that their previous hegemony is well and truly over.

If it takes the federal government to do it, then so be it.


Then show me where in the this bill HB2, it states that any mandate to ridicule the LGBT community exists. As far as I understand this, it was repealing the Charlotte law and making it not possible for municipalities to enact further laws along the same lines.

If I'm wrong, then I need a bit more than your angry word to prove it.




posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 07:52 AM
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originally posted by: Rocker2013

Now just who is the "special snowflake" now? The one who just wants to get on with life and be treated like anyone else? Or the one who wants other people to hide away because their mental immaturity has given them a arrogant belief that only people like them matter and everyone else should just shut up?


If the snowflake really just wanted to be treated like everyone else, why does he/she need special bathrooms to be built?

You almost made my point for me.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 07:53 AM
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Reading through this topic was profoundly depressing and frustrating.


For a site whose ostensible motto is "deny ignorance," I hope someone here sometime soon makes a thorough and well supported educational topic discussing the current and full status of gender identity knowledge both socially and scientifically/medically, because it's dramatically apparent many literally have no idea what being transgender even actually means given how some are still conflating sex with gender, and imagining trans individuals as simply "wearing different clothes and calling themselves X." Is that really how people view trans people?

I would create such a topic myself, but 1) my social anxiety precludes being responsible for such an effort in terms of sustaining, defending, and actively discussing it. It takes all I have even to make this post, for fear of some people's responses, knowing I cannot sustain or deal with protracted arguments even on the internet. Which makes me feel like a horrible coward given what I know many trans folks face in their lives. But I still hope someone does it. And 2) as a cisgender male I don't feel it's my place, and I don't want to get anything wrong despite good intentions.

This is not to denigrate, attack, or shame those who don't understand (or, from their point of view, "agree with" trans persons,) and acknowledging ignorance should not be seen as a personal attack. Living on Earth guarantees one is ignorant of many things. Since there is more in the universe than any of us can ever know, we are all ignorant of something. That's just life. But when that ignorance is used to justify further burdening the lives of the already most fringe, disenfranchised, misunderstood members of our society... that hurts my head and heart.

As with sexuality, what is being discussed is not "a choice," or a superficial matter. On the contrary, it is about something about as intrinsic and innate as any facet of being a human being can get. My two cents. Going to hide now. Reading every page of this topic was draining. Not attacking/angry at anyone. Just saying.

Peace.
edit on 4/16/2016 by AceWombat04 because: Typo



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 07:59 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 08:08 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 08:10 AM
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a reply to: AngryCymraeg

The USA is a Christian nation.

We have a manifest destiny and god will not bless us if we seccumb to sin and tempation like the British!



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 08:11 AM
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originally posted by: Americanpatriot123
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

The USA is a Christian nation.

We have a manifest destiny and god will not bless us if we seccumb to sin and tempation like the British!


Still not sure if you're serious or just trying to yank my chain. By the way, the word is 'succumb'.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 08:12 AM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Rocker2013

Now just who is the "special snowflake" now? The one who just wants to get on with life and be treated like anyone else? Or the one who wants other people to hide away because their mental immaturity has given them a arrogant belief that only people like them matter and everyone else should just shut up?


If the snowflake really just wanted to be treated like everyone else, why does he/she need special bathrooms to be built?

You almost made my point for me.


They were not asking for a special bathroom, the fact that you keep making this suggestion (along with all your other outright lies about this law) makes it clear that your motivations here are not to discuss this law, but to continue with little more than right-wing propaganda.

Again, it doesn't matter, these laws are going to be repealed, these states will have to evolve on this issue, if they refuse to then they'll be looking like Detroit in ten years.


(post by Americanpatriot123 removed for a manners violation)

posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 08:14 AM
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originally posted by: Americanpatriot123
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

The USA is a Christian nation.

We have a manifest destiny and god will not bless us if we seccumb to sin and tempation like the British!


It's temptation.
You should look into learning basic English at some point.
Then again, we all know that illiteracy is often a prerequisite of general ignorance.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: AceWombat04

I wonder, do you ever think of the other point of view on this? Not being mean, or not "trying" to be an ignorant 'right wing Christian', there are some things I'd just rather not dig that deep into. I don't watch Bones on TV because I really don't want to see decomposed bodies. I feel as if I have that choice in life. I fully agree that others have the right to watch it, and even enjoy it.

I happen to be straight. I have family who identifies with being "other", and I love them just the same, but I have no desire to dive deep into what they do and who they do what with. So while everyone has the universal right to be happy and be themselves, don't those of us who chose not to dig into those questions have the right to not have that thrown at us?

I realize there are ignorant folks who might outwardly show aggression towards the LGBT people. but for every one of those, there are a hundred who would rather just live their lives as they have, and not be immersed in that culture. Don't they have that right as well?



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 08:22 AM
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originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Rocker2013

Now just who is the "special snowflake" now? The one who just wants to get on with life and be treated like anyone else? Or the one who wants other people to hide away because their mental immaturity has given them a arrogant belief that only people like them matter and everyone else should just shut up?


If the snowflake really just wanted to be treated like everyone else, why does he/she need special bathrooms to be built?

You almost made my point for me.


They were not asking for a special bathroom, the fact that you keep making this suggestion (along with all your other outright lies about this law) makes it clear that your motivations here are not to discuss this law, but to continue with little more than right-wing propaganda.

Again, it doesn't matter, these laws are going to be repealed, these states will have to evolve on this issue, if they refuse to then they'll be looking like Detroit in ten years.


Again, show me. All the words I have read regarding this, stemmed from the bathroom law in Charlotte. If I am wrong, use something other than just your word to explain it. I sourced a very biased article in the OP. (biased against my point, but it still made my point clear, I think)



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 08:32 AM
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originally posted by: Americanpatriot123
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I dont care what a panzy coward Brit thinks to be honest.

The England is nothing but a weak European slave.



Still not sure if you are still trolling or trying (very badly) to annoy me. And by the way it's 'pansy'. I can send you a link to an online dictionary if you like.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 08:33 AM
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a reply to: network dude

Try reading the link I posted at the end of the last page for some perspective.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 09:08 AM
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originally posted by: network dude
Again, show me. All the words I have read regarding this, stemmed from the bathroom law in Charlotte. If I am wrong, use something other than just your word to explain it. I sourced a very biased article in the OP. (biased against my point, but it still made my point clear, I think)


Do you need 24 hour care?
Go to these links, READ THEM BOTH.

Understanding HB2: North Carolina’s newest law solidifies state’s role in defining discrimination

HB 2



The provisions of this Article supersede and preempt any ordinance, regulation, resolution, or policy adopted or imposed by a unit of local government or other political subdivision of the State




It is the public policy of this State to protect and safeguard the right and opportunity of all persons to seek, obtain and hold employment without discrimination or abridgement on account of race, religion, color, national origin, age, biological sex or handicap by employers which regularly employ 15 or more employees


Notice the bits missing from this "right" to fairness? Can you read it and comprehend what it actually says (or doesn't say) or do you need me to spell it out for you?




such that this Article and other 6 applicable provisions of the General Statutes supersede and preempt any ordinance , regulation , resolution , or policy adopted or imposed by a unit of local government or other political subdivision of the State that regulates or imposes any requir ement upon an employer pertaining to the regulation of discriminatory practices in employment , except such regulations applicable to personnel employed by that body that are not otherwise in conflict with State law .





The Human Relations Commission in the Department of Administration shall have the authority to receive charges of discrimination from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission pursuant to an agreement under Section 709(b) of Public Law 88 - 352, as amended by Public Law 92 - 261, and investigate and conciliate charges of discrimination. Throughout this process, the agency shall use its good offices to effect an amicable resolution of the charges of discrimination. This Article does not create, and shall not be construed to create or support, a statutory or common law private right of action, and no person may bring any civil action based upon the public policy expressed herein


So, given that the state has now mandated that no authority within the state can enact any equality or rights laws themselves and have to abide by state law, and given that this state law EXPRESSLY ignores LGBT citizens and EXPRESSLY states BIOLOGICAL gender, this paragraph means that no citizen within NC can take any legal action against anyone for being discriminated against because of their sexual or physical identity.

I'm not going to start drawing diagrams and writing definitions of words to help you understand this plain English, it's ALL THERE for you to damn well read and understand for yourself.

If you want to simply reject reality and imagine it's not there then there is clearly nothing more to be said in this discussion.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 09:14 AM
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this issue is just more distractions from what really matters like our debt, infrastructure and the climate

I have never in my 48 years on earth had a bathroom experience with someone I felt should not be in the bathroom, and I bet 99.999% of americans would say the same.

the only possible place this could be an issue is in a high school, there is a trans in my kids high school, but my daughter says everybody is cool with her and nobody gives her a hard time. when she has to pee, she goes and pees.

having a "I have more righteous outrage than you" party is a lot of wasted energy imho



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 09:21 AM
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a reply to: network dude

You have the right not to engage with anything you choose not to engage with, certainly. But if that's all you're doing, you're not who my post refers to. On the contrary, my post refers to the inevitability of some degree of ignorance (and doesn't exempt me or anyone else from that clause of being human, incidentally.) What it said though, quoting myself, was:

"That's just life. But when that ignorance is used to justify further burdening the lives of the already most fringe, disenfranchised, misunderstood members of our society... "

E.g. not merely refraining from engagement with something, but willfully using said lack of engagement or knowledge to justify maltreatment and overt bigotry. Which, sadly, happens a lot. It should be understood that my post is not directed at anyone that description doesn't match.

But there are a litany of posts in this and other threads which not only display what is imo tremendous ignorance (again, "ignorance" is not an attack) of gender identity, but justification of overt bigotry and advocacy for disenfranchisement predicated on said ignorance, and - imo - that suggests the need for an educational topic discussing the difference - as just one example - between sex and gender identity. And of course, no one would be forced to click on such a topic should it be created. Which I hope it is.

Peace.
edit on 4/16/2016 by AceWombat04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 09:31 AM
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originally posted by: syrinx high priest
this issue is just more distractions from what really matters like our debt, infrastructure and the climate

I have never in my 48 years on earth had a bathroom experience with someone I felt should not be in the bathroom, and I bet 99.999% of americans would say the same.

the only possible place this could be an issue is in a high school, there is a trans in my kids high school, but my daughter says everybody is cool with her and nobody gives her a hard time. when she has to pee, she goes and pees.

having a "I have more righteous outrage than you" party is a lot of wasted energy imho



It's important to make the distinction here that only one group is creating laws which directly attack the rights and freedoms of other citizens.
People are absolutely right to be angry about this when their lives are being damaged, restricted, their rights refused etc.

No Christian is harmed in any way by allowing transgender people to use the facilities of their choice, neither are they harmed at all by having an LGBT employee, nor are they harmed at all by serving anyone as a business. Their lives, their rights, their freedoms are in no way affected at all by the gender of someone else, or the gender of the person that person chooses to love or even just have sex with.

The notion that Christians are somehow being "attacked" by being asked to treat others with decency and respect is what's really wrong here.

I don't think it's intended as a distraction by anyone. For the ignorant people passing these laws it's an attempt to stamp their religious and moralistic authority onto others and deny entire groups of people they irrationally hate the rights and protections everyone else has and everyone deserves.

This all comes down to one ignorant group of religious nutters wanting to control society to suit their warped views, nothing more and nothing less.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 09:32 AM
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a reply to: network dude

Where did you go Network Dude?
You still reading those links or are you too scared to comment now that you've been proven to be either completely wrong, or an outright liar?

I'm relishing the prospect of seeing you admit that you were wrong on this.

edit on 16-4-2016 by Rocker2013 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 09:32 AM
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a reply to: Rocker2013

You're forgetting that the GOP is obsessed with pedophiles in dresses. Given the recent news about Hastert they are once again 20 years out of date and looking in the wrong places.




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