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Gay Rights Hypocrisy: Bryan Adams boycotts Mississippi, has no problem doing shows in Egypt

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posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 02:59 AM
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originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: jjkenobi

Bryan Adams is a businessman. He has the right to ply his trade however and wherever he see's fit.

It's called capitalism....

You got a problem with that?



Ummm

Tell that to the bakers that don't want to support gay weddings.

Seems they where told they don't have a choose in the matter.




posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 08:54 AM
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originally posted by: dismanrc
Ummm

Tell that to the bakers that don't want to support gay weddings.

Seems they where told they don't have a choose in the matter.


They were told they couldn't single out individuals to not serve. Brian Adams is doing no such thing, he canceled his concert for everyone.



posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 09:00 AM
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originally posted by: dismanrc
Ummm

Tell that to the bakers that don't want to support gay weddings.

Seems they where told they don't have a choose in the matter.


That's where you're wrong. The businesses you speak of absolutely had a choice. Either:

A. Serve the public (as businesses are legally required to do)
B. Change your business to religious business status so you CAN legally discriminate OR
C. Get another job
D. Open another business

That's how capitalism works. You're free to go into business, but you must follow the law. A restaurant can't just CHOOSE not to have health inspections.



posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 04:24 PM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
Either he stands for something everywhere, or he doesn't stand for it at all. Picking and choosing is indeed the height of hypocrisy. Stand, or don't stand.


This indicates the lack of nuance... No gray area. It's all black and white thinking... But life isn't like that and people aren't like that. We're all hypocritical in one way or another, whether you support war, but not choice, or if you support the right to abortion, yet are against corporal punishment. Religious people do it all the time. They pick and choose what to believe in their holy books and what to hold other people accountable for... To point out one man's inconsistency, when not one of us is 100% consistent in our positions, could be seen as the height of hypocrisy, too.


You are comparing different issues, when this is about a single issue. He doesn't like the stance of Mississippi on homosexuality, but he goes to a country where one can die for being homosexual? That isn't about shades of grey, but about being grossly inconsistent and dishonest.



posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 04:45 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: jjkenobi

Like many celebrities, he's clueless. Either he stands for something everywhere, or he doesn't stand for it at all. Picking and choosing is indeed the height of hypocrisy. Stand, or don't stand.


Sounds like an ideologue, I take it you don't know the term moderate?


"Moderate" doesn't typically mean "not cool with laws that don't grant business owners their rights but cool with people being killed". He's cancelling a concert in a state, over their laws, but he didn't have a problem performing in places with serious human rights violations. That's not "moderate"; that's claiming a position, for the media attention, that he isn't willing to support fully. He wasn't willing to give up the overseas earnings to really support his claimed position.



posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 04:52 PM
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originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
He doesn't like the stance of Mississippi on homosexuality, but he goes to a country where one can die for being homosexual?


I honestly don't know Egypt's laws on homosexuality - or even if there are any. But one can die here for being a homosexual, too... From what I read, Egypt doesn't sound much worse than Mississippi or some other southern states - or how they'd like to be. They want to be able to discriminate against LGBT people and make homosexuality have a legal status that's lower than other citizens.



The provisional constitution, approved by voters in 2011, does not specifically address LGBT-rights and the Egyptian government continued to oppose a failed United Nations declaration that would condemn anti-gay discrimination and harassment.[14]

In 2013, Egyptian comedian Bassem Youssef said on The Daily Show, in an interview with Jon Stewart, that he had been charged with "propagating and promoting homosexuality and obscenity" by the Morsi government.[15]

In November 2014, eight men were sentenced to three years in prison for charges of spreading indecent images, following the circulation of a video of a gay marriage ceremony.[16]

In December 2014, around 26 men were arrested in a public bathhouse (Hammam) after a TV presenter, Mona Iraqi, collaborated with the Egyptian police. The court acquitted them.


wiki

I don't really care what Bryan Adams boycotts. S. Carolina has lost at least $40 million in revenue since this law passed. Like it or not, people are going to do what they want to show their disapproval. And unless we are 100% in integrity with our positions all the time (which I am not) we don't have any room to be judging someone for speaking their mind. That's my opinion.



posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

I'm pretty sure businesses are allowed to be as inconsistent as they want, provided they're not being discriminatory.



posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 05:24 PM
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a reply to: LadyGreenEyes




The State Department’s Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2015 says that the number of abortions done annually in that Communist country is about 23 million.

- See more at: newbostonpost.com...


and, I'll just refer you to hobby lobby's oh so sincerely held belief that birth control is wrong, while they buy the bulk of their inventory from chinese company's, of which, the last I knew, china used their companies a part of their enforcemnt arm..
as far as I am concerned, if the supreme court along with most of the christian conservatives on ats can blindly accept hobby lobby's claim on their beliefs, well, they can also accept it here, where we aren't talking about a major supreme court decision, and no one is going to die if a concert doesn't go down in the state!



posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 09:42 PM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
He doesn't like the stance of Mississippi on homosexuality, but he goes to a country where one can die for being homosexual?


I honestly don't know Egypt's laws on homosexuality - or even if there are any. But one can die here for being a homosexual, too... From what I read, Egypt doesn't sound much worse than Mississippi or some other southern states - or how they'd like to be. They want to be able to discriminate against LGBT people and make homosexuality have a legal status that's lower than other citizens.



The provisional constitution, approved by voters in 2011, does not specifically address LGBT-rights and the Egyptian government continued to oppose a failed United Nations declaration that would condemn anti-gay discrimination and harassment.[14]

In 2013, Egyptian comedian Bassem Youssef said on The Daily Show, in an interview with Jon Stewart, that he had been charged with "propagating and promoting homosexuality and obscenity" by the Morsi government.[15]

In November 2014, eight men were sentenced to three years in prison for charges of spreading indecent images, following the circulation of a video of a gay marriage ceremony.[16]

In December 2014, around 26 men were arrested in a public bathhouse (Hammam) after a TV presenter, Mona Iraqi, collaborated with the Egyptian police. The court acquitted them.


wiki

I don't really care what Bryan Adams boycotts. S. Carolina has lost at least $40 million in revenue since this law passed. Like it or not, people are going to do what they want to show their disapproval. And unless we are 100% in integrity with our positions all the time (which I am not) we don't have any room to be judging someone for speaking their mind. That's my opinion.


We don't have laws that allow people to be killed, though, for that. Lots of these Middle Eastern countries do. When he goes tot hem, and skips a state here, he's not being honest or consistent. His option, but it's rather foolish.

As for the boycotts, people have that right, and should exercise it. I do so myself, now and then. Still up to each state how they handle such issues, though. People can choose not to move to a place they know doesn't agree with their ideals. I wouldn't move to California, or Massachusetts, because I don't agree with a lot of their laws. If I have a stance on something, though, it's pretty clear. I am sure you know that, since I don't keep my opinions secret. If I am for something, I am for it, and if against, the against. It just annoys me when some celeb states an opinion, looking for publicity, and isn't really firm in their opinion. I refer honesty. I'd rather converse with someone with whom I disagree, who is honest and consistent, than someone who waffles back and forth. You and I don't always agree, but we can usually converse, and we know where the other stands.



posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 09:43 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

I'm pretty sure businesses are allowed to be as inconsistent as they want, provided they're not being discriminatory.


Sticking by one's religious beliefs, in running a business, isn't discriminatory. Forcing someone to agree with something, on the other hand...



posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 09:45 PM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes




The State Department’s Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2015 says that the number of abortions done annually in that Communist country is about 23 million.

- See more at: newbostonpost.com...


and, I'll just refer you to hobby lobby's oh so sincerely held belief that birth control is wrong, while they buy the bulk of their inventory from chinese company's, of which, the last I knew, china used their companies a part of their enforcemnt arm..
as far as I am concerned, if the supreme court along with most of the christian conservatives on ats can blindly accept hobby lobby's claim on their beliefs, well, they can also accept it here, where we aren't talking about a major supreme court decision, and no one is going to die if a concert doesn't go down in the state!



Do you have proof that most of their inventory is from China? These days, a lot from most any store is from there, of course. I don't like it, and I avoid Chinese-made products. That's something I can decide. Isn't always possible, but I can try. Same way Adams could have not performed in Egypt. He chose to take the money, instead.



posted on Apr, 20 2016 @ 06:06 AM
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a reply to: Aazadan


He did? SO he will not go to any other state and preform?

Seems like he is singling out a group of people.



posted on Apr, 20 2016 @ 08:28 AM
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originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
We don't have laws that allow people to be killed, though, for that.


Does Egypt?



Lots of these Middle Eastern countries do. When he goes tot hem, and skips a state here, he's not being honest or consistent.


I agree that it may not be consistent... All of us are inconsistent sometimes... As far as being honest, it's his truth. Who's to say that he's not being honest?



His option, but it's rather foolish.


So, he's foolish sometimes. Aren't we all? I know I am.


Still up to each state how they handle such issues, though.


You're right. It's up to each state, even if their position seems inconsistent. And it's up to each individual to operate their lives how they see fit. Sure, other people will call them foolish and inconsistent and every name in the book, but that's part of life.


If I have a stance on something, though, it's pretty clear. I am sure you know that, since I don't keep my opinions secret. If I am for something, I am for it, and if against, the against.


So, I'm just guessing, and you don't have to answer, but your position on abortion is consistent? I'm assuming you're anti-abortion (think it should be illegal) without exception?


It just annoys me when some celeb states an opinion, looking for publicity, and isn't really firm in their opinion. I refer honesty.


It annoys me when people are so staunchly against abortion, but don't want to take care of the unwanted children that result. It annoys me when they'd give their life to save the life of one baby, without thought of the life of the mother, or their "pro-life" position only extends to the unborn, but they have no problem whatsoever with carpet bombing the Middle East or support the death penalty.

My point being that we're ALL inconsistent at times. That's my only point. People sit back in judgment of this guy when we all do the very same things. And I'm not trying to pick on you. It's just hard to have a discussion with 90% of the people here and I know I can converse with you and I really appreciate it. Thanks.
edit on 4/20/2016 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2016 @ 09:23 AM
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I came across a hopeful news story that could effect this whole bathroom situation...

Game-Changing Decision in the Fight Against Anti-Trans Legislation



Today the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals issued a precedent-setting decision for transgender high school student Gavin Grimm, resoundingly reversing a lower court decision that had held school districts can bar transgender students from using restrooms consistent with their gender identity.
...
And for the anti-transgender legislative attacks we’ve seen this year? As a practical legal matter, this decision likely spells their demise.
...
That means HB2, which forces schools to require transgender students to use restrooms based on the gender listed on their birth certificate, will almost certainly be struck down as a violation of federal law.



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 03:47 PM
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originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

Sticking by one's religious beliefs, in running a business, isn't discriminatory.


Yes it is, if it is a discriminatory standpoint; such an example would be singling out customers who are different for some reason that has been reasonably established and accepted as an uncontrollable thing.

You can't cite your superstition as an excuse for breaking the law.


Forcing someone to agree with something, on the other hand...


You don't have to agree with anything; but you do have to obey the law.

How is this so confusing?
edit on 21-4-2016 by DeadFoot because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 05:53 PM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
We don't have laws that allow people to be killed, though, for that.


Does Egypt?


I couldn't find any information on that. I did locate plenty of stories of unfair treatment, however. That seems to be the standard in that part of the world. Even in places where they don't officially call it illegal, bad treatment is condoned. That simply isn't right. I don't agree with that life choice, but I don't have any inclination or need to hurt or kill someone over it. As long as it isn't affecting me, it isn't my problem.


originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
Lots of these Middle Eastern countries do. When he goes to them, and skips a state here, he's not being honest or consistent.


I agree that it may not be consistent... All of us are inconsistent sometimes... As far as being honest, it's his truth. Who's to say that he's not being honest?


If he honestly was against any actions of that sort, I don't see how he could perform in countries that condone such actions. It isn't like he had no choice about going overseas. I'd say, in that case, he isn't honest with himself, int hat regard. it happens. I like some of his music well enough, as far as that goes, but I can't respect his position in this case. If he cancelled those tours as well, I could.


originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
His option, but it's rather foolish.


So, he's foolish sometimes. Aren't we all? I know I am.


Of course we are! Most of us don't announce it to the media, though. Celebrities, if they are wise, are more careful about that. Some of my favorites don't agree with my politics, but they also aren't in the news all the time about them, so I don't care. It's when they make it well known that problems arise. Whatever side one chooses, in that sort of spotlight, they should be consistent.


originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
Still up to each state how they handle such issues, though.


You're right. It's up to each state, even if their position seems inconsistent. And it's up to each individual to operate their lives how they see fit. Sure, other people will call them foolish and inconsistent and every name in the book, but that's part of life.


I'm a stickler for states' rights, myself.


originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyesIf I have a stance on something, though, it's pretty clear. I am sure you know that, since I don't keep my opinions secret. If I am for something, I am for it, and if against, the against.


So, I'm just guessing, and you don't have to answer, but your position on abortion is consistent? I'm assuming you're anti-abortion (think it should be illegal) without exception?


Off topic, but yeah, at least with very few exceptions. A REAL threat to the life of the mother is a prI have five kidsetty rare thing, and if that's all there was, I could deal. Rape and incest, I wouldn't do it, but again, I could deal. For me, abortion would never, ever, be an option. I couldn't do it. I have five, and lost two more, and every time, there was a very real connection with that baby. Even very early, a loss can be felt. I'd die for one of my kids after they are born, and would before as well, if it was them or me. Abortion because it isn't convenient to have a baby, which is typical, I can't condone.


originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
It just annoys me when some celeb states an opinion, looking for publicity, and isn't really firm in their opinion. I refer honesty.


It annoys me when people are so staunchly against abortion, but don't want to take care of the unwanted children that result. It annoys me when they'd give their life to save the life of one baby, without thought of the life of the mother, or their "pro-life" position only extends to the unborn, but they have no problem whatsoever with carpet bombing the Middle East or support the death penalty.


I don't have to be pro-murder to not want to, or be able to, support all would-be victims of murder. Same with abortion. As for the mothers, there are plenty of groups that can and do offer all kinds of support for a mother who needs help. We don't have a lot, but I have offered help, when able, to those that needed it. Comparing abortion and war isn't really apt. Wars happen for a lot of reasons, and those are different from deliberately killing an unborn helpless child. I'd prefer no war, but they can't always be avoided, because of the way the world is.


originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
My point being that we're ALL inconsistent at times. That's my only point. People sit back in judgment of this guy when we all do the very same things. And I'm not trying to pick on you. It's just hard to have a discussion with 90% of the people here and I know I can converse with you and I really appreciate it. Thanks.


Yes, we can be. I make an effort to be consistent myself. Sure I don't always succeed, but I try. I won't judge him for this, or stop listening to his music. I will think he's inconsistent. More of a *sigh* sort of thing that someone in the public light does something that is guaranteed to bring negative attention. It's just a picture of life, really. I do know what you mean, about the numbers! Plenty here that don't agree with me, and that's cool, but some, you just can't talk to at all. it's nice being able! Discussions with those people with whom we disagree can teach us things. I'd be bored talking only with people that agreed with everything I said! You are welcome, and thanks, yourself.



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 05:57 PM
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a reply to: DeadFoot

The law protects free expression of religion. When a baker willingly serves all customers, and simply doesn't want to participate in a wedding ceremony that is against their religion, that right should be protected. I wouldn't ask a homosexual baker to make a cake with a Bible verse about homosexuality on it. I wouldn't ask a Jewish deli for a ham sandwich. I wouldn't expect a Muslim caterer to serve my Bible study class. We can run businesses, and allow for some concessions, and not be discriminatory. Forcing someone to photograph a wedding that violates their religious beliefs is, in fact, breaking the law, wherein that law should protect their right to religious expression. That isn't confusing to be at all.



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 06:18 PM
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originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

Sticking by one's religious beliefs, in running a business, isn't discriminatory. Forcing someone to agree with something, on the other hand...


It's discriminatory if your religious beliefs make you single out a specific group of people and you're business is open to the general public and deny them service. That is by definition what discrimination is.

So if you single out people into groups by race or sex or whatever and treat them different than all other people that is exactly what discrimination is. That's what makes it different than singling out someone for some other issue. Like if someone is violent or whatever then there is a reason to not conduct business with them. But just because someone is Black or Gay or Trans or Mormon or whatever isn't a reason why you can't conduct business with them. All else being equal they are just like anyone else and there is no reason to deny them service other than a personal bias against them.

Which is why I don't understand with as much as Christians claim they are being persecuted all the time because that is exactly what Anti-Gay Christians are doing to the LGBT people. How can you not see that for what it is??



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 06:59 PM
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originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: DeadFoot

The law protects free expression of religion. When a baker willingly serves all customers, and simply doesn't want to participate in a wedding ceremony that is against their religion, that right should be protected. I wouldn't ask a homosexual baker to make a cake with a Bible verse about homosexuality on it. I wouldn't ask a Jewish deli for a ham sandwich. I wouldn't expect a Muslim caterer to serve my Bible study class. We can run businesses, and allow for some concessions, and not be discriminatory. Forcing someone to photograph a wedding that violates their religious beliefs is, in fact, breaking the law, wherein that law should protect their right to religious expression. That isn't confusing to be at all.


The thing is that your premise is correct; people have the right to religious expression.

Being a photographer is not a form of religious expression as far as most level-headed people are concerned, and the laws reflect that as far as I know.

Your use of the word "violate" makes me feel like you've got your mind made up regardless, though.



posted on Apr, 29 2016 @ 12:13 AM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

Sticking by one's religious beliefs, in running a business, isn't discriminatory. Forcing someone to agree with something, on the other hand...


It's discriminatory if your religious beliefs make you single out a specific group of people and you're business is open to the general public and deny them service. That is by definition what discrimination is.

So if you single out people into groups by race or sex or whatever and treat them different than all other people that is exactly what discrimination is. That's what makes it different than singling out someone for some other issue. Like if someone is violent or whatever then there is a reason to not conduct business with them. But just because someone is Black or Gay or Trans or Mormon or whatever isn't a reason why you can't conduct business with them. All else being equal they are just like anyone else and there is no reason to deny them service other than a personal bias against them.

Which is why I don't understand with as much as Christians claim they are being persecuted all the time because that is exactly what Anti-Gay Christians are doing to the LGBT people. How can you not see that for what it is??


We aren't talking about denying service, though; only specific services that violate the business owner's religious beliefs. Selling baked goods to ny and all, but not offering wedding cakes, since there is more personal involvement in that case. Bakers deliver cakes to weddings, which demands their participation. Would you expect a homosexual baker to provide a cake with Bible verses on it, that speak against homosexuality? Somehow, I doubt it.

Now, if you want real persecution, try the guy that planned to shoot up the FRC. Now that's persecution. Doesn't compare with refusing to participate in a wedding.




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