Gay Rights Hypocrisy: Bryan Adams boycotts Mississippi, has no problem doing shows in Egypt

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: intrepid

Oh yeah, forgot.

We need to be at each other's throats all the time so we don't actually focus our anger on the actual idiots causing all of this.

If it ain't broke don't fix it. And it works.

a reply to: mOjOm

I never said they did have civil rights.
Which is all the more reason he should've canceled his shows in Egypt. If he hoped to influence political change in favor of LGBT's there would be a lack of a public platform in which he could espouse his pro-gay rights sentiment without being arrested...

Bryan adams a Canadian born citizen weighs in on U.S political issues by canceling one of his shows but is more than willing to tour Islamic countries which have more extremist conservative views on gay-rights than all of the U.S.
I'm sorry but it's a double standard,It's not logically consistent and you're justifying irrationality.

Also prior to the civil right's America was almost as conservative on gay-rights as the Islamic countries.
So no America hasn't always been this bastion of freedom and pro-equality your claiming it to have been.
Because if it was,the founders would've made that clear from the start.
But as we all know that wasn't the case. As only white,male,landowners had the right to be apart of the political process in America for the longest time.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

I didn't say it was from our founders. But it is where we are now after a lot of difficulty struggling for equality. Being treated equally is a part of this nations principles though. Those principles were upheld legally by every state at one time too. Now we are seeing states going in the opposite direction. Agree with that regression if you want, it's your choice. But do the rest of us a favor and wear it proudly so we can treat you how you should be treated as well.

It's not a double standard if he's advocating for whatever the Laws are in whatever nation he's performing in. Maybe he's advocating for Civil Rights here because we have civil rights here. Somewhere where there are no civil rights it doesn't matter.

In all honesty though it makes no difference if Adams has a double standard or not. If he does it makes him just as bad as the hypocrites in Miss. and who cares. The fact is that people in Miss apparently like discrimination and support it so they should love that he's discriminating against them. They should support Adams in his decision to deny them his concert based on his personal belief that they are A-Holes the same way they deny others because they believe they are icky or whatever.

a reply to: jjkenobi

The problem with progressives is that, due to racism, classism, and sexism, they hold people who look like them to a higher standard. The hypocrisy arises exactly when they hold apparently different groups to different standards, and in the case of the countries mentioned, Adams finds them inferior, and expects less of them thereby.

a reply to: mOjOm

LOL,you're predictable. Essentially if I disagree with the standard that Mississippi is being held to than I am condoning the discrimination that occurs in that state. Umm.. No that's not how that works.
I stated that he needs logical consistency to his views on gay-rights. To hold one state of a unified country at a much higher standard than entire nation-states that have laws denying the rights of gay men and women is not logically sound reasoning. Especially since he's not even from the country or state that this is taking place.


Bryan could still advocate for civil right's in these Islamic countries. Elton John advocates for LGBT rights in Russia,which has recently become more and more anti-LGBT as the years go on. He even continued on with his tour back in late 2013 through Russia even though many artists had chosen to boycott. Elton did so to spread his pro LGBT message there, I don't see why Bryan Adams couldn't do the same with Mississippi.

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
LOL,you're predictable. Essentially if I disagree with the standard that Mississippi is being held to than I am condoning the discrimination that occurs in that state. Umm.. No that's not how that works.
I stated that he needs logical consistency to his views on gay-rights. To hold one state of a unified country at a much higher standard than entire nation-states that have laws denying the rights of gay men and women is not logically sound reasoning. Especially since he's not even from the country or state that this is taking place.

Miss. is being held to the standard of the Nation it is unified with. Which it has failed. There is no need to compare Miss. with Egypt. The fact is they are failing their own nation which they are a part of.

I don't really care what you agree with or disagree with personally. If you're defending Miss. then you're as much of a failure to your nation as those who passed this law there.

Speaking of being logically consistent. Who are you to say that Adams needs to hold everyone to the same standard when you seem to have arbitrary standards for what others do???

Maybe he's holding Egypt to Egypt's Standards and Miss. to US standards. If that's the case then he's being perfectly logically consistent. Egypt has set it's standards low and lived up to them. The US has set their standards a bit higher and Miss. has failed to live up to them. Seems perfectly logical to me. Adams will still perform elsewhere in the US, just not MIss. So there ya go. Logically consistent. Happy.

It still doesn't change the fact that Miss. is apparently supporting discrimination against it's own citizens. You apparently seem to agree with that. At least that what it seems to me since you seem to be defending their problems with Adams. If that's not the case then I suppose you should make that clear. Until then, that's how it seems to me.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

logical, consistent?
umm...ya....
hobby lobby stands in front of the supreme court proclaiming their oh so deeply held belief that having to provide insurance that includes birth control is against their religion, but they buy probably over 50% of their inventory from chinese companies.

catholic hospitals will maintain their claim that their religion is against abortion, that life is oh so sacred, even when the women is miscarrying, forcing the doctors to sit and wait for for the fetal heartbeat to stop, totally ignoring the doctor's own freedom to act according to their own conscious because they know this is endangering the health and welfare of the mother, and possibly their life. and the courts will fully protect their right to do this!!

christian will clamor for religious protections, for themselves, but then bulk when the gov't extends the tiniest protection to those of other faiths...

and you expect logic and consistency?

consistency would require all the different beliefs to be treated equal with an equal amount of protection...
this if hobby lobby is protected from providing insurance for birth control, then the business run by the jahova witness should be protected from having to provide blood transfusions.. but the supreme court clearly stated that their decision only pertains to the issue of birth control...

if a landlord's belief concerning homosexuality is deserving protection, and therefore he should be able to deny someone an apartment based on that, then so shouldn't someone's belief about other sins that don't involve marriage, but this law only involves issues of marriage.

and if life is oh so sacred, then the mother's life shouldn't be endangered, especially when the mother is obviously having a problem, and the fetus obviously isn't going to survive no matter what is done!
and if the hospital's belief should be protected to the point where it's okay to risk that mother's life, then the doctor's who is also providing care for that child, who also has deeply held beliefs that in many cases (I assume because they are speaking out against this as well) is very contrary to the hospitals, should also be protected!

nope no logic here, no consistency!! sorry!

a reply to: dawnstar

This whole conversation reminds me of this:

a reply to: mOjOm

that rabbit hole that alice fell into led to a saner world than our country seems to be!!

and what gets me is I cannot for the life of me, figure out just how homosexuality and gay marriage is harming anyone!! god, it's not like anyone is having sex for your kids to see as they play outside, supposedly, my community has a rather large population of them and I have only encountered them three times (that I know of), and two of those I didn't know because of any actions they took, but rather what they told me or others told me.
I do much prefer the wiccan creed, as long as it harms no one, do as you will!

a reply to: mOjOm

Miss. is being held to the standard of the Nation it is unified with. Which it has failed. There is no need to compare Miss. with Egypt. The fact is they are failing their own nation which they are a part of. I don't really care what you agree with or disagree with personally. If you're defending Miss. then you're as much of a failure to your nation as those who passed this law there.

Really resorting to ad hominems...? Are you seriously that intellectually bankrupt.
I'm not defending Mississippi's legislation to discriminate,I'm not sure where you got that idea from.
Unless I explicitly say otherwise I wouldn't make assumptions about my political stance.
I'm simply stating that it's logically inconsistent for Bryan Adams to boycott a state but not other whole nation-states with worse views on gay-rights.

Speaking of being logically consistent. Who are you to say that Adams needs to hold everyone to the same standard when you seem to have arbitrary standards for what others do??? Maybe he's holding Egypt to Egypt's Standards and Miss. to US standards. If that's the case then he's being perfectly logically consistent. Egypt has set it's standards low and lived up to them. The US has set their standards a bit higher and Miss. has failed to live up to them. Seems perfectly logical to me. Adams will still perform elsewhere in the US, just not MIss. So there ya go. Logically consistent. Happy.

As I said in my previous post,Bryan Adam's should've continued with his show in Mississippi to show his support for the current LGBT and human rights groups in the state. Much like Elton John did with his tour through Russia and Adams did in Egypt. Really not that hard to grasp how inconsistent this is of him. Egypt hasn't been living up to their standards,that's why the Mubarak regime had been overthrown. And now apparently this current regime is worse than its predecessor so I don't expect Egypt to continue "living up" to its standards for very long.

It still doesn't change the fact that Miss. is apparently supporting discrimination against it's own citizens. You apparently seem to agree with that. At least that what it seems to me since you seem to be defending their problems with Adams. If that's not the case then I suppose you should make that clear. Until then, that's how it seems to me.

Seriously...Again with this dude...No I don't agree with discrimination against anyone,especially not against LGBTs.
You can look through my post history for proof of this,so you can stop making assumptions about my political stances.
I'm also not defending Mississippi or their legislation to discriminate against LGBTs,I'm criticizing Bryan Adams's reasoning for canceling his show. Just because I disagree with you on this one minor issue,doesn't mean I'm against gay-rights.

a reply to: dawnstar

I'm not against gay-rights or abortion....
Stop with the assumptions.

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
Really resorting to ad hominems...? Are you seriously that intellectually bankrupt.
I'm not defending Mississippi's legislation to discriminate,I'm not sure where you got that idea from.
Unless I explicitly say otherwise I wouldn't make assumptions about my political stance.
I'm simply stating that it's logically inconsistent for Bryan Adams to boycott a state but not other whole nation-states with worse views on gay-rights.

What attack. I said "IF" you agree with them...That's not a declarative statement. If you don't agree then it doesn't pertain to you.

You're not supporting them??? Well, you certainly don't seem to be against them. So where do you stand then??? If you don't want me to assume something then maybe you need to specify your position and I won't have to guess what it is. I can't read minds after all.

Again. How is it inconsistent to hold them up to the expectations which are expected of them based on the laws of that nation??? Egypt isn't expected to support Equal Rights so how can you hold them to that standard??? Miss on the other hand as part of the US is expected to support equal rights.

Since when is Egypt expected to be like the US and abide by US Law??? Never.
What about Miss??? From the moment we've had civil rights.
Seems pretty consistent to me.

Seriously...Again with this dude...No I don't agree with discrimination against anyone,especially not against LGBTs.
You can look through my post history for proof of this,so you can stop making assumptions about my political stances.
I'm also not defending Mississippi or their legislation to discriminate against LGBTs,I'm criticizing Bryan Adams's reasoning for canceling his show. Just because I disagree with you on this one minor issue,doesn't mean I'm against gay-rights.

Great. Happy to hear it.

There is nothing wrong with his reasoning. He's probably pissed off that a state within the US has decided to legalize discrimination against LGBT folks. He might not like the fact that Egypt treats LGBT folks even worse than Miss. but then again, that's Egypt and not the US. If I'm in another country I play by their rules. I may not always agree with them but I still play by them because I'm there and not in the US. But in the US if someone isn't playing by the Rules of the US then I'd be justified in pointing that out. Seems reasonable to me.

But like I said. Who gives a damn about his reasoning. The fact is Miss. is screwing up with this legislation because it's literally targeting it's own citizens and "respecting and institution of Religion" at the same time. So any attention that brings that out and makes them responsible for it is a good thing. Trying to invalidate that by spinning this to whether or not Brian Adams is a Hypocrite or not is just a lame way to shift focus of what the problem is. At the end of the day Brain Adams values mean nothing anyway. Making a big deal out of him rather than the actual problem is just BS misdirection. Even this is a waste of time what you and I are doing now.

a reply to: mOjOm

What attack. I said "IF" you agree with them...That's not a declarative statement. If you don't agree then it doesn't pertain to you.

Cut the crap man. It was heavily implied by your previous post that you thought I was in support of the bill based on my criticisms of Bryan Adams's decision to boycott the state of Mississippi.

You're not supporting them??? Well, you certainly don't seem to be against them. So where do you stand then??? If you don't want me to assume something then maybe you need to specify your position and I won't have to guess what it is. I can't read minds after all.

Why would I have to be against them in order to criticize Bryan Adams?
But FYI, I don't support the bill or the discrimination that goes on in states with similar legislations.

There is nothing wrong with his reasoning. He's probably pissed off that a state within the US has decided to legalize discrimination against LGBT folks. He might not like the fact that Egypt treats LGBT folks even worse than Miss. but then again, that's Egypt and not the US. If I'm in another country I play by their rules. I may not always agree with them but I still play by them because I'm there and not in the US. But in the US if someone isn't playing by the Rules of the US then I'd be justified in pointing that out. Seems reasonable to me.

Bryan Adams is not American. The fact that he chooses to weigh in on U.S politics and hopes to influence political change by boycotting a state is logically inconsistent because A) He's done shows in other nation-states that have much harsher laws against LGBTs. Also I believe he played a show in Russia a few times. Russia BTW does have civil rights or at least a few of the political principles that make it up. Yet he didn't Boycott any of them.

B) Other states within the U.S. (e.g Alabama,North Carolina and Kentucky) Also have passed laws that discriminate against LGBTs, I don't see Bryan Adams boycotting those states either. Maybe he has correct me if I'm wrong. If he wanted to support LGBTs in Mississippi,canceling a show isn't the best way of showing solidarity,he could've used the opportunity to spread the message of civil rights.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

I am not assuming much of anything, just making an observation.
it seems that logic and consistency has left the religious right camp long ago,
A neighbor once came to my door and started griping to me about something my kid said to her. she said he has called her something that I have never heard come out of his mouth, that was never spoken by anyone in the household. I laid into her.. every night as my kids laid in bed, her and other neighbors would be outside, drinking their beer, playing their music, and well, you could hear them yelling up and down the road at each other. so, instead of sleeping this is what my kids listened to half the night. I told her point blank, gee, I have never spoken that word and it has never been spoken in this house till you have just spoken it. but I have heard it yelled throughout the night by you and your neighbors...
don't expect my kids to act more grown up than the adults that surround them!!! and I shut the door and waited for her to leave before I said a word to my son!

I'd say the same thing now to the christian right,
your own camp is full of hypocrisy and lies, don't expect those you view as heathens, sinners, and deviants to act more righteous than yourselves!!

it's not like the christian right hasn't boycotted companies, now is it? heck I remember alot of off the wall boycotts being called just based on a companies logo!

I'm not saying this isn't hypocritical. Imho, it is. And I do wish personally that he were more consistent in his position. However, from many comments herein I draw the following speculative inference:

One having a flawed or anything-less-than-perfectly-consistent position apparently negates the reality of the problem they feel they are taking a stand against, and said negation and imperfection is evidently more important than calling attention to actual said problem.

I.e. "Well he's a hypocrite so even the parts of his position that are (arguably) right are negated and null and void," versus, "Well he's a hypocrite, but I agree with half of his position."

Once again, nuance is not permitted. It's all or nothing, black or white, binary hostility. The status quo of our age.

Peace.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
a reply to: jjkenobi

Of course, the major differences are that this is happening in the USA, a country which claims to be the "best country in the world", while being far behind most other Western nations.

Really?
Only 13 out of fifty European nations allow same-sex marriage.

Harte

originally posted by: Atsbhct
a reply to: LSU0408

Just wondering: How does Bryan Adams deny the rights of any person?

Ummm, well for the people that were going they cannot now ??

Are you really serious ??

Not only that but we need to read more news headlines about all the OUTRAGE over this bill, that is literally one of the least most important things I have EVER heard to be raging about ???

How about our right to sanity and not hearing rants about this over and over.

a reply to: ParasuvO

Not only that but we need to read more news headlines about all the OUTRAGE over this bill, that is literally one of the least most important things I have EVER heard to be raging about ???

war one christmas, poor persecuted christians with their churches on just about every corner, sharia law is coming to america, fetal baby parts for sale for profit, god sent that earthquake, or tornado or flood, or whatever, because he is angry about abortion, or homosexuality, or whatever..

I'd list any of those way lower in importance than bills designed just to remove rights from any group in any part of america!

Well, last I checked Egypt doesn't lie to the world by falsely promoting itself as a shining beacon of freedom, democracy, peace and happiness while being anything of that sort, like a certain other nation does, so I consider it apples and oranges.
By the way, who put that Egyptian government (an so many others like it) in power again...? Ah, right...

originally posted by: AceWombat04
Once again, nuance is not permitted. It's all or nothing, black or white, binary hostility. The status quo of our age.

Hear! Hear! Nail on the Head. To put all this energy into pointing out an inconsistency in a single human being's actions... I just don't get it. Are we expecting perfection from Bryan Adams, when NOT ONE of us is perfect??? That's sure what it looks like. I say if it bothers someone that much, they need to get a life. And soon!