My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you.

"My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." - John F Kennedy

I am writing this thread in response to the numerous threads about socialism, or democratic socialism that I have seen. While I see many virtues in such a system, and would gladly be a part of such a system myself, I do not agree with the implementation of such a system within the United States of America. Historically and even more so in modern America, the more we ask of our government, the more "require" of them, the more services and welfare programs and other issues we want them to represent/implement/make law/outlaw - The bigger the beast gets, which does not serve anything but itself.

"So, what is the best economic system for us?" One may ask.

There are certainly many diverse answers coming from all directions, but if you look at what works the best in this world, which nations come out on top when it comes to standards of living, earnings per capita, and the like - there are similarities you will find. Within these similarities, and taking lessons from the past, I have come to assume what conditions create the most successful and beneficial systems that we as the people can implement/vote for.

Near the top of this list is a free-market. Without a free-market, businesses cannot thrive, and when businesses cannot thrive, the people of the country will be impacted all the same. Government was never meant to regulate business on the level they do, let alone ever actually be the owners of business. It has been proven time and time again that private industry is what fuels a good economy. Government is only meant to intervene in matters of extremes - Such as slavery, or child labor. Any further intervention is only a disservice to the people - Even major things that people are for such as minimum wages can be debated as too much intervention, as businesses will only hire a person worth that wage. It creates a class of people that cannot get a job if they are not deemed as worth that amount. Such a person may find it harder to get ahead in such circumstances.

Another major point would be freedom, specifically the most pure version of freedom we could liberate ourselves into.

We are allowing, or otherwise accepting that our government is making/enforcing laws concerning marriage, our intimate lives, drug use. We allow the government to "manage" (own) so much land, and create so many laws, rules, codes, or otherwise restricting us from using our natural resources in a responsible way. We have we allowed the government to grow so big, so inefficient and allowed them to take so many taxes, and influence so many markets in a negative way. We have insane incarceration rates, too many laws, too many codes, too many tax laws, the government is just too much, and is far beyond needing fixed.

These top two concepts ( freedom for the business, freedom for the individual ) alone are extreme, and can change societies and economics in major negative ways with too much government intervention. Over-regulation within a free-market creates a controlled market, one where business cannot thrive, where the small businesses cannot compete, and where creativity, innovation, overall progression slows down or halts. This same government which seeks to regulate business, seeks to regulate our personal lives. When we demand results from our government concerning partisan issues, when we demand that our government represent us in every tiny way, we only feed them.

What we need to do is step away from this government, reduce both the size and the power of our federal government, and increase the power of local and state governments ( though not overly so. ) We need to demand that we are free and that the government only exist to ensure these freedoms. They are not meant to create legislation, tax code, and other confusing and overly complicated ways to enslave us.

Peace be with us all.

TheCentristPhilosopher

A FREE MARKET is precisely what the damn globalists want to promulgate....one that they have the means to control already...you should read the TPP (toilet paper partnership I calls it) the death of the middle class is held within that agreement as well as the death knell of national sovereignty.

a reply to: bandersnatch

Perhaps there's an alterior motive behind moving all of our means of production outside of the country?

Well, Ive just been reading one of those popups, you know, The Amazing worth of NASCAR drivers.

The top is the Earn-hard or is it Earnhart, whatever....family is worth $300 million...tho daddy did die.

Even the lowly NASCAR driver gets 1.5 MILLION Dollars per Month!

Sure, you can die in a car race....you can die in a plane trip, or walking across the road too.

Man, 1.5 Million per month, for racing cars and living the lifestyle.......God Bless 'Merica.

I wanna come back as an American Nascar Driver....yawl!! Yee Harrr.

You Boyz has got it all worked out...

Why do people complain so much?

a reply to: TheCentristPhilosopher

Typical libertarian rhetoric. Perfect example:

Over-regulation within a free-market creates a controlled market, one where business cannot thrive, where the small businesses cannot compete, and where creativity, innovation, overall progression slows down or halts.

Are you familiar with the "Rule of Three?" (aka "The Rule of Three and Four)

Boston Consulting Group - BCG Classics Revisited: The Rule of Three and Four

Ivy Business Journal - Competitive Markets and the Rule of Three

The problem I think most people have with economics is that they have only a basic concept of microeconomics informed by politically promoted economic dogma. Markets evolve. In the beginning, an industry might be chock full of competitors but over time, competition leads to consolidation. Regulation can interfere with the outcome but it's important to understand that absent regulation, the result is inevitably consolidation to a few major players.

How many NASCAR drivers are there compared to Wallymart pert time workers or MC Ds burger flippers.....
The disparity is egregious really....

a reply to: TheCentristPhilosopher

democratic socialism

Can there be such a thing ?
Democracy - rule by the people
Socialism - economic system controlled by the government

So , no.

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: bandersnatch

Perhaps there's an alterior motive behind moving all of our means of production outside of the country?

Only if you consider profit an ulterior motive. In a free market, manufacturers are free to move factories to wherever is most profitable — for instance third world countries where labor is cheap, environmental laws are lax, safety regulations are lax, etc. The easiest way to "create" jobs (in reality shuffle to our country from another country) in the US would be for Americans to work for less compensation in worse conditions and let companies pollute more — i.e. out third world the third world.

a reply to: Gothmog
Perhaps not the kind of socialism you fear....
In truth the socialism that will work requires a more altruistic and less greedy human race...
Look at how many do not have employment now....
with technology, and enlighjtened planning
nobody would be required to work....unless they wished to have more than a basic subsistence....

originally posted by: bandersnatch
a reply to: Gothmog
Perhaps not the kind of socialism you fear....
In truth the socialism that will work requires a more altruistic and less greedy human race...
Look at how many do not have employment now....
with technology, and enlighjtened planning
nobody would be required to work....unless they wished to have more than a basic subsistence....

OOPS now you have went and done it.

Perhaps not the kind of socialism you fear....

You have implied you know me and I fear socialism
You DO NOT KNOW ME
The penultimate mistake has been made , thus disallowing any other comment you posted.

a reply to: bandersnatch

Yes, tongue in cheek of course.

What is interesting for the "Western World", its that all thru the late 1970s, and all thru the 1980s,
People were constantly bombarded by the media, Governments , business to a degree..... on how "Technology" was going to "Free" people....How EVERYTHING was going to be mechanized, computers were going to do everything, Working hours were going to be reduced, people were going to have much more leisure time, and could do Sooo much more in their lives because of computers and robotics etc.
The world will be a utopia by the mid 1990s. Everyone will work no more than 15 hours per week, but still be on the same wages or much better. People will have months holidays, everything will be available. Etc etc etc.

It was drummed into us for Decades.

Now....People are unemployed because rich executives want 10 million $ per year + Benefits, but pay workers 2 $ per hour.
Some People now work up to 80 hours per week, being greedy and depriving another person the opportunity to work, because they..."want to get ahead".

Robotics and computers have helped business.....to shed people and forget about them with no income, unlike the Theory where the wealth would be spread amongst everyone....

If it wasnt for human greed, everyone could be happy. But as they say, Everyone is Equal.....Just some Piggies are MORE Equal than others.....

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: bandersnatch
a reply to: Gothmog
Perhaps not the kind of socialism you fear....
In truth the socialism that will work requires a more altruistic and less greedy human race...
Look at how many do not have employment now....
with technology, and enlighjtened planning
nobody would be required to work....unless they wished to have more than a basic subsistence....

OOPS now you have went and done it.

Perhaps not the kind of socialism you fear....

You have implied you know me and I fear socialism
You DO NOT KNOW ME
The penultimate mistake has been made , thus disallowing any other comment you posted.

You just did the same mistake as you haven't the power to disallow a damn thing I happen to say....
So don't imply same ...
You want a civil conversation or a street brawl?

Last fellow to say that got assassinated. How dare a president tell the people to respect and work hard for their country to continue making it great! Yes, sarcasm was turned on.

Now, the true behind it is, we all need to respect our country and work hard to support and protect it the best we can because it's our home, it's our children and grand children's home. People who solely live off the government and the people who pay taxes to support them have no respect. We need to get back to having pride for our home. Pride in our freedom, pride in honoring those that created a place for us to raise our family. I'm not talking solely about American pride, I'm talking about your pride for your home and country whether it's "God save the Queen" or "I will bleed on these stripes to keep them red". People need to dig deep and pull their honor to the surface and live by it. Not living with the mentality of 'what are you giving me today?'