(LEAD) N. Korea' early-morning ballistic missile launch ends in failure: military

a reply to: xuenchen
Just out of curiosity, do you or anybody believe if we detected an ICBM getting ready/prepared for launch and had time to have a satellite lock on it we could destroy it at anytime we choose? Either right there on the pad or when in flight possibly with lasers?

I feel like we have this ability but destroying them on the pad everytime would become obvious, so we let them fly up a little bit every once and a while before destroying them. I dont know just thinking out loud, remember reading we had this tech over 10 years ago so maybe its on a satellite or a few by now

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: BlueAjah

Out of all the countries that need a fat useless dicktator removed, North Korea would be at the top of the list - their ongoing threats to Sth Korea, Japan and the US are far more overt and vocal than any other that I can think of.

So, in all seriousness, why has the US governments coalition of the willing not done what they do best and delivered round boy and his regime some mega-freedoms of democracy yet?

Must be because:
a) They are continuously being monitored and are deemed to be of no threat.
OR
b) They have no oil under their dirt.

B

Yeah but the thing is Kim Jong knows perfectly well that if he does anything spectacularly stupid like nuking south korea, then the retaliation will include a nuclear missile being dropped right on top of his head.

It would be near-instant suicide for him.

And he strikes me as a man who likes the finer things in life, he likes his palaces, his food, his mistresses, his luxury lifestyle. So unless he is so crazy as to be seeking suicide-by-nuke, then this is all the pathetic posing of a child.

a reply to: BlueAjah


I figured that missile would not fulfill its mission. More precisely, I figured that if it did not fail on its own during the early lift stage than once underway and away from visibility it would fail.

I can imagine the US laser operator in Utah or someplace arguing with his commander: "Sir, let's blast it just as it lifts off and show that little bastard."

Commander: "No, son, we can't do it that way. They would detect our shot. We'll wait till it clears xxxxx feet where the chances of a clean shot are better. That gives us a lot of room for 'plausible denial' if it ever comes down to that."

As so it may have been....

a reply to: BlueAjah

I do believe you're going to get your wish sometime soon.

China has broken support for NK and sided with the International community, their statement about this launch makes clear their position:

China also criticised what it called "the latest in a string of sabre-rattling that, if unchecked, will lead the country to nowhere," according to the official Xinhua news agency.

BBC

This is after South Korea broke a story a week or so ago about a statement made by the NK regime branding China an "enemy" of the nation.

This is what the world needed to be able to take action against NK. We could not have done so with China supporting NK as it was previously. Thankfully, it seems China is now more than a little aware of the risk posed by their former ally and has made it clear that this path of Nuclear armament is not acceptable.

It's all extremely complex, but I do believe that the US, China, Japan and South Korea are planning to take action. There are high-level meetings between China and the US taking place, or have taken place, for the first time over the issue of NK.

It is most definitely high on their list of priorities.

It's absolutely clear that unless NK reverses course it will be attacked. There is absolutely no other plausible outcome. There is no way any nation on this Earth would be willing to sit back and do nothing while NK develops Nuclear capability.
Those who are not going to be involved in the action taken will sit back and watch without much of a comment, but there is not a country out there who would seriously criticize any action taken, or get involved in defence of NK.

Even Russia has been extremely careful to stay out of this conversation. Some might think that because Russia assisted them to get this far that they might actually support NK being nuclear armed, that's false. Russia sold them plants and equipment to make some money, it was a business arrangement they made under the assumption that this would have all been resolved through diplomatic means. It was a dangerous, stupidly greedy and short-sighted decision, but rest assured Russia doesn't want to see NK armed with nukes.

They took a risk for business, and it backfired. Russia doesn't want to see that crazy little nation having nuclear weapons any more than SK or the US does.

In addition:

North Korea has been jamming GPS signals in South Korea since March 31, threatening the safety of civilian aircraft and vessels and violating international agreements, Seoul told the United Nations Security Council in a letter released on Monday.

Yahoo

Further to this, the recent tests of ICMB capability in NK have reportedly shown a marked increase in power and reach, with a significant step having been achieved which would allow the NK regime to strike the US mainland.

Time is running out. The US knows that it's delayed this for too long already. There is no possible way to break off from a military action against NK within the next two to three years unless Kim comes back to the negotiating table and basically hands over full and complete access to all his military capabilities and nuclear plants to the international community, anything less than full and complete access would not be considered acceptable.

The only things that have stopped the US from taking action up to this point are China's defence of NK, and the risk to Japan and SK should action be taken. While it's likely Japan and SK might experience damage and deaths, they both know that the dangers of doing nothing are far too high. They know that they need to be a part of any operation, and it's likely we would see it start with an evacuation of high risk areas in both SK and Japan.

When we see any news of areas of SK or Japan being evacuated, prepare to see the fireworks over NK starting.

a reply to: BlueAjah



Its only a matter of time before one of the launches malfunctions and hits a neighboring country.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Excellent analysis of the situation.
It does indeed seem like events have taken a new turn.

a reply to: Rocker2013

They have to a point broke off support for NK, but don't think China is not still supporting them economically. They are NK biggest trade partner and the thing they don't agree with is NK nuclear ambition, but other than that things are still the same.

Just as the US and China don't agree on things militarily...economically we use each other as though nothings wrong.

It surely makes things interesting.

NK..like a blackfly buzzing around the kitchen..more annoying than anything. When I heard this my 1st thought was..
www.youtube.com...

right, ok. what laws is NK breaking by pursuing a missile defence system and nuclear aremement? and whom govern those laws.

is it that no coutry can pursue nuke capabilities, or just not countries 'approved' by people who think they make the rules for other countries.

what about countries taht used nukes in warfare without a unilateral consent from UN and other allies or exauhsting other avenues before dropping an atom bomb on innocents...

why cant a country tests nukes or missiles, between 2000 and today can anyone guess how many missiles the us has tested and detonated. how many 'mini' nuke test was performed in our own deserts?
or does none of this matters...

a reply to: odzeandennz

Maybe you can uphold your convictions by moving to South Korea?
You can sit there and wait and tell NK that they have every right to keep trying to shoot nukes at you
But, since reports say he now has weapons that can reach the US mainland, we are not so safe here either.

Un is delusional, and constantly makes threats to destroy South Korea and the US.
He has even threatened China.
Do you really think it is acceptable for a country making these threats to continue like this?

I don't think it is so much a concern that a country has nukes.
The concern is that a country with an insane dictator that continuosly makes threats has nukes.

.

a reply to: BlueAjah

fair point.

however, statistically, what country /countries have bombed/invaded other countries in the modern day era.

statistically, what country/countries are more of a threat to the free world.

how many bombs NK dropped on other countries in the past 10 months, year, decade... how many accidently dropped on the wrong targets... how many countries NK is spying on, how many vessels with nukes does NK has patroling other countries shores..? how many wmd's has any other countries used in military and non military warfare in say the past year, decade, century even.


what is NK violating by by enriching their military arsenal.

im asking unbiasedly and realistically.

if NK is part of the IAEA or signed any international treaty which stated they cannot pursue nukes capabilities, then they should be sanctioned. otherwise, think of the predicament we have seen time and time again.

remember not too long ago how the US was hell bent on not letting iran pursue nuclear developments for energy or weaponry... here we are today, they are still enriching and developing resources they deem needed for their nation.... now the focus is on NK
shockingly, its 3 countries always at the forefront against other nations military abilities... ask yourselves why. dont just get on the axis of evil bandwagon, we all know the amount of truths there are in incriminating other nations.

remember all those SATELLITE images we had on IRAQ and their WMDs. we obliterated them and left...
whos governing our actions and 'hunches' (lacking any proofs)we have.

if history is accurate, who is more of a threat to other nations than any. i could be wrong though. if so please steer me in the right direction.

i also know this simple logic and unbiased opinion will turn into a hate america theme...not really. just realistic.

a reply to: odzeandennz

I agree with some of your points.

But I do believe that we have a right to defend our country. ISIS makes threats against us too, and those inspired by them have actually attacked and killed US citizens. So, I think we are right to take every measure necessary to stop them.

But of course there is a line that needs to be drawn regarding who and why etc. It is a deep, complicated issue, balancing national security with ethical dilemmas.

a reply to: odzeandennz

right, ok. what laws is NK breaking by pursuing a missile defence system and nuclear aremement? and whom govern those laws.

Does he really need to breaking a law for the world to not want little Kim with nukes, as he really isn't the most stable president of a country that may actually try and use them.

NK neighbors know that NK is poking a sleeping dog, and if they attempt an attack on either the US, or SK the response will be hard and deadly...also know this is just making the decision to out THAAD in SK a little bit easier. That is something China does not want to see happen.

SO in essence China has been doing the job of keeping NK in line, but it seems little Kim is going to see how far they can push it with China before giving in to them.

is it that no coutry can pursue nuke capabilities, or just not countries 'approved' by people who think they make the rules for other countries.

Think about what you asked for a minute, and then think about some of the countries we have on this planet...do you really want a few of them with nuclear capabilities?

why cant a country tests nukes or missiles

Read my reply from above.

between 2000 and today can anyone guess how many missiles the us has tested and detonated. how many 'mini' nuke test was performed in our own deserts? or does none of this matters...

We can have them to a certain number and we can test them...we just can't make new ones.

You might like this...

www.un.org...

a reply to: tsurfer2000h
since your first response was 'does he really need to be breaking any laws' , then you cement your argument by asking me to think about countries on this planet and do we want them with nukes, im going to refrain from conversing and further beyond this post .

nothing you say would make any arguement in any sane court of law. maybe here on ats people will think you have valid points by saying 'just look at country X"
then you point me to un.org in an effort to help me understand nuke treaties i think.. but you need to read up on international laws, and why the first nuke treaties were signed in the first place.

again, what laws, international or what pact is NK defying

Iran was in a nuke treaty, yet they enriched and sent UN inspectors back home.

the grand scheme here is Japan and the US's ever expanding strategic military stance.. as always.
so no neutral mind can pin point what NK is actually violating.
Does any really think the US s nuke program is not expanding. will it take another snowden to unveil
more dirty laundry as we point the fimger ready to strike


isnt saying 'just look at the crazy dictator the same tactic employed by bush, collin powell et al to destry iraq... we know why now

a reply to: odzeandennz

When did this become a court of law?

Now again I ask do you want certain countries that would love to see the US turned to glass, and if they had the capabilities to do so do you think they wouldn't do so, or sell them to certain groups that would do so?

I know why they signed nuke treaties...your reply was why can't any country have a nuke program, and I pointed out the reason so what is it your not comprehending?

As for the US nuke program...you know that little non proliferation act I pointed out is the reason the US nuke program isn't expanding. Unlike Russis who is developing new ones. You may actually want to do some research before acting as though you know.

As for Snowden...he was a thief that ran rather than stay and standup for your position as some kind of whistleblower instead of running like the thief he was. Interesting though how he ran and ended up living nice in Russia.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h
right.
parties or states involved in the treaty.
you're not comprehending that NK is not the only nation whom did not agree to Nuke proliferation laws. there were countries not seeking nor planned to seek nukes. which is why its still brought each year at the conference and the IAEA. hence sanctions/embargo are the only lawful actions that can take place. states don't police other states , or invade and decide to bomb based on what they think... wtf.

if the US was stupid enough to lay a finger on NK, don't anyone think they would have done so years ago. how many administrations have threatened NK so far....

a reply to: odzeandennz

Actually NK was a signature to those treaties. When they got nukes they withdrew from the treaty. NK as a nation is present because of China. NK as a nuclear power is because of Russia.

NK is one big pile of rot thats close to collapsing.