The United States: Is the Problem Really Guns?

Are guns the problem? No. Do they ad to the problem? Of course. The problem with so many gun owners is they are irresponsible gun owners. They do not secure their weapons properly and almost all weapons used in crimes started off in the hands of a legal gun owner who had a house or car broken into and the weapon stolen. Or worse they leave them where kids can get them. Nobody is held responsible so they have no incentive to ever become responsible gun owners.

Anywhere in the world where there the population is heavily armed, crime is also a problem. People like to point to the Swiss many men have a weapon at home as part of the military reserves. And this is true but, they do not have the ammo and those weapons have to be secured properly and that storage can be inspected to make sure it is up to snuff. The NRA would never allow that.

You have people who own weapons for hunting, for recreational shooting, and for home defense and most of those people are pretty responsible. Then you have people who own them because they think they are a cool toy or they think they are some how keeping the government in check despite the fact they government has artillery, armor, bombers, cruise missile and tanks. Those people can be a problem.

So yes guns ad to the problem of not only more crime but, a more deadly police force who is under much greater threat. However, owning guns is an American right so that is not going to change. What should change is mandatory safety classes, better background checks and people being held responsible for how the weapon the own is used.

originally posted by: MrSpad
Are guns the problem? No. Do they ad to the problem? Of course. The problem with so many gun owners is they are irresponsible gun owners. They do not secure their weapons properly and almost all weapons used in crimes started off in the hands of a legal gun owner who had a house or car broken into and the weapon stolen. Or worse they leave them where kids can get them. Nobody is held responsible so they have no incentive to ever become responsible gun owners.

Anywhere in the world where there the population is heavily armed, crime is also a problem. People like to point to the Swiss many men have a weapon at home as part of the military reserves. And this is true but, they do not have the ammo and those weapons have to be secured properly and that storage can be inspected to make sure it is up to snuff. The NRA would never allow that.

You have people who own weapons for hunting, for recreational shooting, and for home defense and most of those people are pretty responsible. Then you have people who own them because they think they are a cool toy or they think they are some how keeping the government in check despite the fact they government has artillery, armor, bombers, cruise missile and tanks. Those people can be a problem.

So yes guns ad to the problem of not only more crime but, a more deadly police force who is under much greater threat. However, owning guns is an American right so that is not going to change. What should change is mandatory safety classes, better background checks and people being held responsible for how the weapon the own is used.

Cars cause drunk driving.

Forks cause obesity.

High buildings cause suicide.

Pools cause people to drown.

Sexy women cause rapes.

At some point, society has to accept that people are responsible for their own actions. Guns are a tool. No gun has ever just randomly jumped up and shot someone. In a nation of 350 million people, you are going to have a few idiots.

No, lack of discipline, and bitchy, over sensitive egos and personalities are the problem.

Not only that, the lack of ability to solve problem with words, or just a good 1v1 fight to solves issues ain't in their resolutions. Too much work and effort required.

a reply to: Edumakated

Cars cause drunk driving.

Obviously cars don't 'cause' drunk driving and laws also don't stop everyone from driving while drunk... but if it was made legal tomorrow to drive while drunk, do you think it would result in less alcohol related crashes or more?

The question is rhetorical, btw. Any person who posses any kind of commonsense knows the answer.

Also, just as a general statement, not directing this at anyone personally... but using flawed fallacies to win an argument, makes people come across as lacking a basic sense of reality.

... just saying.

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

No, it's not guns.

If you spend time on here, you'll soon discover that it is SSRI drugs....

Yep, drugs. If we just ban them and get rid of them all of our problems with guns will disappear overnight.

Despite the fact that violent crime is actually at a 50 year low, and SSRI use is at an all time high -- somehow removing these drugs will solve the problem.

It's all so simple, just like flipping a switch!

/sarcasm

America: the land where we want simple solutions to complex problems not today, but YESTERDAY!

a reply to: MrSpad

They do not secure their weapons properly and almost all weapons used in crimes started off in the hands of a legal gun owner who had a house or car broken into and the weapon stolen. 

I never bought the 'It is the victim's fault that a criminal broke into their house and took something of value' story.
If someone will break into a house, they will take a whole gunsafe and cut it open with a cutting wheel on a grinder later.
The victim is not at fault, the criminal is.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Despite the fact that violent crime is actually at a 50 year low, and SSRI use is at an all time high -- somehow removing these drugs will solve the problem.

I don't disagree with the point you're making, but a person could also make that same argument regarding 50 year lows in crime rates in contrast to the record gun sales over the last several years.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

(it's more accurate to say that I'm anti-gun-control-for-the-US-due-to-practicality and have been for some time.)

At least you're honest. My point still is an always is ain't the guns that cause crime, its the criminals…

Purely objective and theoretical because I like to be a Dumbass.

But it's not the criminals perse that cause the crime, it is the Law that makes it a crime, change the law remove the crime.

Ok I'm on a bad roll today.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: MrSpad

They do not secure their weapons properly and almost all weapons used in crimes started off in the hands of a legal gun owner who had a house or car broken into and the weapon stolen. 

I never bought the 'It is the victim's fault that a criminal broke into their house and took something of value' story.
If someone will break into a house, they will take a whole gunsafe and cut it open with a cutting wheel on a grinder later.
The victim is not at fault, the criminal is.

Actually the "stolen gun" this isn't true:

Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.

In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf.

PBS

originally posted by: vor78

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Despite the fact that violent crime is actually at a 50 year low, and SSRI use is at an all time high -- somehow removing these drugs will solve the problem.

I don't disagree with the point you're making, but a person could also make that same argument regarding 50 year lows in crime rates in contrast to the record gun sales over the last several years.

And in 50 years the population has also grown, which means there are going to be more customers for guns.

Part of this all boils down to how connected everyone is via technology. In the 70's someone in Seattle might not hear about a double homicide in Florida. The news consisted of the newspaper and the nightly news on 1-2 television channels for ONE hour or less a night.

There was more violent crimes, but people didn't have access to every single bit of news every second of every day from all places on the globe.

We are too soft on gun toting criminals, sentences are a joke, no death penalty. People just go to jail and hamg out with their crews, play carda, eat and sleep. Just get taken care of for a cool 20 years then do ot again. America has had guns since day 1. They just properly punished people for most of our history.

originally posted by: DrakeINFERNO
We are too soft on gun toting criminals, sentences are a joke, no death penalty. People just go to jail and hamg out with their crews, play carda, eat and sleep. Just get taken care of for a cool 20 years then do ot again. America has had guns since day 1. They just properly punished people for most of our history.

Yes, because jail and prison are great places. Being locked in a 6 foot by 8 foot room for 20+ hours a day isn't all that bad. If you're lucky, they might mix real eggs in with the powdered ones!

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Its not great for the average person. Someone willing to shoot someone over nothing could care less and are not normal thinkers.

a reply to: DrakeINFERNO

Yeah right, with the largest prison population in the entire world, Americas problem is they don't punish people enough... lol.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Execute gun toting criminals. They used to hang horse thieves. I get it you libs love coddling criminals, treating them more humanely than victims. Im not here to change your mind.

We have an ample supply of low intellect sh.t bags with laundry lists of gun crimes spending very little time in prison and shouldn't waste money on them.

I tried finding the article that breaks down the numbers Ill try looking for it and posting since people will want sources.

But I remember reading that the USA is in the top 5 for gun deaths in the world but if you took away the statistics from New orleans, Chicago, Detroit and DC/baltimore area. Then the USA would be in the bottom 5 countries for gun deaths. That speaks volumes to the real problem we have.

Hell if New Orleans was its own country it would have the 2nd highest murder rate in the world.

The problem is gangs not guns.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: DrakeINFERNO

Yeah right, with the largest prison population in the entire world, Americas problem is they don't punish people enough... lol.

In this particular case, no, we don't. All too often, these people committing homicides with firearms happen to have prior lesser offenses involving firearms on their criminal record. After a couple of years in prison, the system turns them loose and they turn to more violent crime. And yes, in many cases, they're being turned loose to make room for non-violent offenders who probably shouldn't be there.

To that end, as a gun owner and strong 2A supporter, I'm also an advocate of much tougher mandatory long-term sentencing laws for those committing felonies involving any usage OR physical possession of a firearm at the time the violent crime was committed. In effect, it would be a zero tolerance policy. Our criminal justice system has its problems, but locking up violent offenders too long isn't one of them.

a reply to: vor78

I see 2nd degree assault charges all too often getting tagged to multiple victim shootings in my liberal bastion of glory.

a reply to: DrakeINFERNO

Sounds about right. Here's an article detailing how bad it is in Chicago.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Are you seriously claiming giving convicted criminals and gang members (in any country) the right to legally bear arms, or the right to carry a firearm at all times, wouldn't raise the murder rate?

How'd you get that?