Bipartisan group of U.S. Senators urge NBA to move '17 All-Star Game

a reply to: Annee
How many kids in North Carolina are born with both genitalia?
I don't understand how this became so huge.. They should just choose a bathroom and sit down every time.

a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

You mean we aren't supposed to announce our gender loudly on the way in?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

You mean we aren't supposed to announce our gender loudly on the way in?

I only do that when I go into a Red Lobster.

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o
a reply to: Annee
How many kids in North Carolina are born with both genitalia?
I don't understand how this became so huge.. They should just choose a bathroom and sit down every time.

Both genitalia?

That's not transgender.

Good article I found.

Article is dated 2/18/15 (the science might have various dates)

Sex redefined. The idea of two sexes is simplistic. Biologists now think there is a wider spectrum than that.

This is the last paragraph. So if the law requires that a person is male or female, should that sex be assigned by anatomy, hormones, cells or chromosomes, and what should be done if they clash? “My feeling is that since there is not one biological parameter that takes over every other parameter, at the end of the day, gender identity seems to be the most reasonable parameter,” says Vilain. In other words, if you want to know whether someone is male or female, it may be best just to ask.

www.nature.com...#/spectrum

a reply to: Annee

I want to read that article, but am really pressed for time. Do they elucidate on the following:

“My feeling is that since there is not one biological parameter that takes over every other parameter

Im a pretty smart fella, and just can't make sense of that.

The physical traits of sex are the basis of our biology. What are they measuring to have made the water so murky?

a reply to: Annee

I guess i could put it differently:

One of the things about having high levels of empathy is that you can easily put yourself in smoeone else's shoes. For me, i can literally "identify as" anyone or anything if i am given a few moments to get in that mindset.

I don't mean to trivialize the notion of "woman trapped in a mans body" because I have seen the inner conflict first hand, and the damage it can cause (he killed himself a few years back, which was devastating for my wife and I both as we called him "friend"). But where does the "identify as" stop? What if you have an actor that is heavy on the method, and spends 3 months working on getting in character....how does that fit in? Psychologically, there is still the same issue of self identity. And im not so sure we can exclude delusion, either self induced or not, from that.

This is a pandoras box that we are not even close to being ready to open.

One more question, because i think its worth asking:

If i want to identify as a handicap person, and that is a "thing", can I get the parking? Im not talking about someone who is exploiting this new reality we are going into....i mean someone truly identifies as disabled despite not actually being disabled.

Currently this is classified as a mental illness. I believe transgenderism once was as well. So how do we move forward with that? Is self identity all that matters?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
One more question, because i think its worth asking:

If i want to identify as a handicap person, and that is a "thing", can I get the parking? Im not talking about someone who is exploiting this new reality we are going into....i mean someone truly identifies as disabled despite not actually being disabled.

Currently this is classified as a mental illness. I believe transgenderism once was as well. So how do we move forward with that? Is self identity all that matters?

My mom was physically disabled. It is not something I take lightly. This was prior to the Disability Act. She was treated by businesses (other) similarly to how LGBT are treated. We were kicked out of businesses for various reasons, including upsetting other customers - - that did not feel comfortable.

The biggest problem with handicapped is not the physical disability - - as much as it is exhaustion. With many it takes extra effort just to get in and out of a car. That's just the parking lot. Not even to the store yet.

Some with mental/emotional difficulties, such as agoraphobia, might qualify for handicap parking.

I would drop my mom off at the front, then go find a parking place (Not the Handicap Parking). It is not something I would ever take advantage of. I am capable of walking, even from the furthest parking space.

A doctor's note of recommendation used to be required. I'm not sure if that still applies.

a reply to: Annee

My mom is disabled for various reasons as well. I get it.


But what I am talking about is "Body Integrity Identity Disorder". You believe that your body is physically disabled, even when it is not. Any illness has varying degrees, with some people having the belief that they choose to ignore, and not needing treatment. So on and so forth. How does this fit in to self identity?

Or people who identify as non human, like this one chick that believed she was a squirrel. I saw one patient that believed he was a glass of orange juice. Yes, its humorous, but im not making light here.

There is likely going to need to be a "line drawn" (to use a bad metaphor) on what we call "self identity" and what we call "metal illness". To some, transgender people may simply suffer from Body Dysmorphic Disorder.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

This is a Pandora's box that we are not even close to being ready to open.

I assume, most are under some kind of medical care.

I am not trans or LGBT, so I don't know how they would personally feel about t.

People wear medical bracelets, or carry medical cards for various reasons. I personally would not be opposed to a medical card.

But, does that cause a stigma?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Annee

My mom is disabled for various reasons as well. I get it.


But what I am talking about is "Body Integrity Identity Disorder". You believe that your body is physically disabled, even when it is not.

I think that would have to be determined by a professional.

I am not against it. The mind is a strange thing.

Not all legitimate handicaps are physically visible.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

IMO - - The biggest problem is Science vs Belief.

Getting society to know and accept that both Sexuality & Gender have variances.

Look how many in here still state as fact "penis or vagina" determines who you are.

originally posted by: Annee
Look how many in here still state as fact "penis or vagina" determines who you are.

Let's not be entirely disingenuous. It determines what you are, not who you are. I don't believe any of us on the traditional common sense side have suggested that sex organs dictate WHO you are, because most of us believe you make yourself who you are.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Annee
Look how many in here still state as fact "penis or vagina" determines who you are.

Let's not be entirely disingenuous. It determines what you are, not who you are. I don't believe any of us on the traditional common sense side have suggested that sex organs dictate WHO you are, because most of us believe you make yourself who you are.

How is what or who different in this specific subject?

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

IMO - - The biggest problem is Science vs Belief.

Getting society to know and accept that both Sexuality & Gender have variances.

Look how many in here still state as fact "penis or vagina" determines who you are.

You have to understand that, even to someone who for the most part doesn't find disagreement with your overall stance here, to make it a choice of "science vs belief" creates a visceral reaction that I have to choke down.

Beyond any box you can fit me into, i am a rationalist. To understand, im going to need to understand it in a rational manner. There isn't room for belief, especially when it comes to making new laws. Which, as it so happens in this particular instance, works in favor of LGBT rights.

But before we go into that, we are going to have to actually identify the real truth. Because there is nothing stating that sexual organ doesn't determine sexuality. In fact, stating the opposite flies in the face of everything that humanity has ever known. I thinkn the first think to really know is:

- is transgenderism an expression of Body Dysmoprhic Disorder
- if so, do we really care (or can we make it where we don't care) because i really just don't want to

This won't happen because the teeth gnashing at the suggestion would create a million parades in the Capital. People don't want to be told they're abnormal. And, again, im not sure it really matters.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

You have to understand that, even to someone who for the most part doesn't find disagreement with your overall stance here, to make it a choice of "science vs belief" creates a visceral reaction that I have to choke down.

I always try to reduce to the simplest form.

I do understand all sides. I fully admit my personal experience of how my mom (and us, 3 kids under 7) was treated (I was only 5 when she contracted polio) - - - strongly influences my thinking.

If I had not had that experience, or a different experience - - - my thinking might be different.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Nope. Just walk in, do your business, walk out.
Trans or not.
Actually, if you are trans, go ahead and yell out that your a man, who identifies as a woman, so your using the womens restroom. Then complain that there are no urinals.

a reply to: Annee

Wait a minute.. You were talking about a transgender 5 year old!
This is getting ridiculous. Five year olds can barely spell and add/subtract. How the hell are they going to understand something so complex as their 'gender identity'
I'm going to have to stand by the original statement.
Let the equipment decide.
After they have the operation, they can use the other one.

a reply to: Annee

Fair enough.



To the thread in general...im interested in playing with the ideas I presented above, if anyone wants to pick up the counter argument.