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Rape Culture

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posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 09:51 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 09:52 AM
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a reply to: Nyiah

Horrible experiences such as hers and other women I know and have known is what drives me and other women and men to bring this scourge of humanity into the light for discussion.



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 09:53 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 10:13 AM
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originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: rockintitz

I think what many people fail to understand is that those who rape people have a mental problem that isn't fixed by logical discussion.

Those who continue to treat rapists as if logical discussion will fix the problem are literally part of the problem, because they often choose to berate those who suggest constructive ideas (concealed carry and training for women, self-defense classes, et.) that empower potential victims are the wrong solution.

Both mindsets baffle my sense of understanding.



It could be a mental problem or a programming (culture) issue, but I do agree with you that the berating of those trying to find solutions and open up dialogue about this is wrong. However, if packing a gun and self-defence skills is a person's only solution, then so be it, but it is wrong to put the responsibility there and not deal with (or even acknowledge) the underlying problem.



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 10:37 AM
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originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: Domo1

To some extent I don't feel it's my place to comment... I understand everyone is responsible for their own self-control and actions. But as humans we have animilistic urges.. If you hold a piece of meat in front of a dog for long enough it'll bite your hand to get what it wants.. It's the equivalent of poking the hornets nest. Certain clothing on woman can be very provocative. It can change a man's entire behavior towards a woman. Show me enough skin and I won't be able to talk in clear sentences. I won't touch what I'm not allowed to touch, doesn't mean some scantily clad young lady won't throw all my thoughts into dissaray, and for some, it might just be to much and the animal within emerges.


Another stupid, meaningless analogy.

If what you said was true only hot looking women in club wear would be victims.

It's ridiculous in the extreme.
Some folks are just bad.
They'll do what they do regardless of how their victim is dressed or acts.

I really think this sort of bs rape apology stuff is at the heart of what people mean when they talk about rape culture.

I'd suggest anyone not capable of keeping their hands to themselves in the presence of someone they may find attractive needs removing from the gene pool pronto.


Thanks for demeaning my post. Context and understanding is critical. That's all I'm gonna say.
Gg out.



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 10:39 AM
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originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: rockintitz

I think what many people fail to understand is that those who rape people have a mental problem that isn't fixed by logical discussion.

Those who continue to treat rapists as if logical discussion will fix the problem are literally part of the problem, because they often choose to berate those who suggest constructive ideas (concealed carry and training for women, self-defense classes, et.) that empower potential victims are the wrong solution.

Both mindsets baffle my sense of understanding.

indeed. We live in a culture of 'treat the symptom, not the cause'. No one here has gotten to the heart of the issue, but it seems you understand.



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 10:48 AM
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edit on 15-4-2016 by GreenGunther because: It's just better this way



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 11:05 AM
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a reply to: GreenGunther

I may understand that we need to treat the root cause, but that doesn't mean that I have the solution, sadly.

Well, I have an idea, but it's only reactionary and is against their whole right to a fair trial.



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 11:11 AM
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originally posted by: InTheLight
It could be a mental problem or a programming (culture) issue, but I do agree with you that the berating of those trying to find solutions and open up dialogue about this is wrong. However, if packing a gun and self-defence skills is a person's only solution, then so be it, but it is wrong to put the responsibility there and not deal with (or even acknowledge) the underlying problem.


No, it's not wrong to put the responsibility on the individual to learn how to protect themselves from known possible threats in their society. That's like saying it's wrong to go to the doctor for regular check-ups, or it's wrong to lock your doors at night. There are always known/possible threats in this world, and the first step that we can do for ourselves is arm ourselves with the best possible defense that we can do at an individual level.

I'm in no position in my life to deal with the root cause (or, as you call it, the underlying problem) that drives a rapist to do what they do, because that's not my specialty or expertise, but my own body and skills--that's my specialty, and I'll do the best that I can with it, and I'll encourage my daughter and my wife to do the same. I can't force it, but I'll try with logic.

No one said packing a gun and knowing how to defend one's self are the only solutions, but when it comes to personal responsibility, they are some really big ones.



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 11:18 AM
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originally posted by: GreenGunther

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: Domo1

To some extent I don't feel it's my place to comment... I understand everyone is responsible for their own self-control and actions. But as humans we have animilistic urges.. If you hold a piece of meat in front of a dog for long enough it'll bite your hand to get what it wants.. It's the equivalent of poking the hornets nest. Certain clothing on woman can be very provocative. It can change a man's entire behavior towards a woman. Show me enough skin and I won't be able to talk in clear sentences. I won't touch what I'm not allowed to touch, doesn't mean some scantily clad young lady won't throw all my thoughts into dissaray, and for some, it might just be to much and the animal within emerges.


Another stupid, meaningless analogy.

If what you said was true only hot looking women in club wear would be victims.

It's ridiculous in the extreme.
Some folks are just bad.
They'll do what they do regardless of how their victim is dressed or acts.

I really think this sort of bs rape apology stuff is at the heart of what people mean when they talk about rape culture.

I'd suggest anyone not capable of keeping their hands to themselves in the presence of someone they may find attractive needs removing from the gene pool pronto.


Thanks for demeaning my post. Context and understanding is critical. That's all I'm gonna say.
Gg out.



There is no context where it's remotely ok to try and pretend "She looked so nice they couldn't be expected to help themselves"

Which is where your dog and steak analogy was leading.

The problem is with the perpetrator not the victim.

This refusal to confront the issue and instead try and deflect it with spurious comments on skirt length makes all men look bad.



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 12:24 PM
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originally posted by: GreenGunther
I'm not sure if this is out of context, but it's something I need an answer to and it's related to all the above mentioned. My question is as follows. What if someone was raped when they were very young, or sexual abused, but they enjoyed it and didn't understand what exactly was going on. Only to learn later in life that they were technically abused, but their feelings then are messed up. You cannot categorise it as "negative" or "positive", only very very complex. Is this rape? Is this abuse?

I had bowed out of this thread because it seems clear to me there are basically two courts; few are listening, and most are so mired in their own personal beliefs, that there is little room for discussion.

I could not let your question go unanswered. The answer without question, is a loud and resounding 'Yes!'

It is Rape and it is Abuse, if the child is under the age of consent, or a person that does not have the capacity to make independent legal decisions. There is nothing complex about it, outside of the mind of the child.

A child may enjoy the taste of anti-freeze, that does not make it okay to allow them to consume it. It is not about what the child finds pleasurable. It is about what is right, safe, and in the best interest of the child, and the child's well being.

You see many post about victims being provocateurs, but what argument can they give for rapists that are stimulated by an infant lying in a crib, a child sleeping in its bed, a child waiting at a bus stop, a grandmother sitting in her living room watching TV, a young girl in a church bathroom, a young boy in a McDonald's bathroom? I could go on and on, but it won't make a darn bit of difference, because both sides have their minds shut.

I live this nightmare. The culture is one of blame, shame, disbelief, and an apologetic mind set for rapist.

I pray every second of everyday that I don't get that phone call. I pray you don't either.

I also pray that I will have enough strength, knowledge, and understanding, to help the victim recover from whatever trauma they may have had to endure.

There is a simple solution to the problem. Start by believing. If the circumstances lends itself to change your mind, at least you haven't thrown an innocent victim under the bus, and we may take one small step closer to reducing this problem.

Again children can't choose to participate in an sexual act with an adult. It is always the choice of the adult, and it is rape, and it is child abuse, and it is a serious crime.

Just my two cents.

edit on 15-4-2016 by NightSkyeB4Dawn because: Punctuation.



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 12:37 PM
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originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: Domo1

If you hold a piece of meat in front of a dog for long enough it'll bite your hand to get what it wants..


And we put down dogs that do this.



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

I fear what you are missing is simple understanding. Nobody wants to be bitten by the dog, the dog has done something bad and should be punished accordingly. I'm not saying they are asking for it, what I'm saying is that if they have any clear picture of the world and know whats it's like, they should know that they are taking a risk.

It's a risk that shouldn't be there, but it is. So deal with it as best you can. Mitigate risk



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 03:16 PM
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originally posted by: dollukka
How women dresses shouldn´t be a cause to minimizing her value as a member of society nor reduce her value in the eyes of the law.

It doesnt
But it may get some pretty rotten people who doesn't care about society values to notice you.
In saying that, the person most likely to get raped isn't the fun scantly dressed woman..its the woman who is alone and seemingly defenseless..aka, a woman who doesn't know how to fight back..easy prey. feminists who say dont bother with learning defense are actually pushing for women to be more targetted by actual rapists


"asking for being raped" WHAT ??? ..

there will always be idiots, however, again, if someone is dressed next to nothing, going clubbing, and hasn't taken precautions, such as a defense course, and not going out with friends who will watch over each other..then it is risks that should be considered.
using some common sense goes a long way basically..most people are 100% cool with anyone being who they want, its the few jerks seeking prey that is the issue of course, but a good group, and well lit areas typically sorts that out.


In other hand.. rape culture DO exist, and is growing in Europe but reasons to that is more due immigration and cultural differences and also just to cause havoc and fear among "native people". Sweden is rape capital of the World for example. As once again you can see rape is a about power and control.

Yep. the west isn't a rape culture..but seems a lot of europe is importing an actual one.



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 03:23 PM
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originally posted by: GreenGunther
Indeed. We live in a culture of 'treat the symptom, not the cause'. No one here has gotten to the heart of the issue, but it seems you understand.

Thats all that can be done. Dont you think that if we could treat the cause of (name any crime ever), we would do that as a society? we treat the symptom of murder because the cause is a unknown.
Not everyone who rapes is mentally disturbed, many may see it as cultural (islam), some may have only a momentary lapse of reason through drugs/alcohol and not some long standing mental illness that could be identified, some may simply be sociopathic jerks who think they are entitled to getting laid, etc.

the symptom then is to find who violated and get them the help they need...be it a very lengthy prison sentence with therapy, or...a very lengthy prison sentence without therapy

In saying that, since we are discussing a very lengthy prison sentence..there better be some strong evidence, because anyone can claim violation..and many do tend to falsely accuse or misrepresent (exaggerate).
edit on 15-4-2016 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 03:44 PM
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Oh lovely, a bunch of men telling us how the things we experience every single day don't exist.



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 04:41 PM
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a reply to: mandyslade

Don't take us out of context.

No one said rape doesn't exist, rather we are calling for real life examples of it in action to support the claim that the whole culture Supports and perpetuates rape, as if its no big deal.

My wife was raped 3 times before the age of 14 so take off with your claims that we don't think it exists.

Just claiming there's a rape culture, isn't helping anything or anybody. Present real life people/institutions with quotes or some leaked internal memo or email.. something! Not just "Rape culture" and "You're men telling us it doesn't exist"

Nonsense. Give real life examples so we can focus on that person or construct, present ideas we can discuss and decide if it would help or exacerbate this "rape culture", then use it to combat and end it and we can fight it together.

I want to eradicate rape across the board, I'll go ahead and speak for everyone and say Rape is Bad and should never happen.

No one can help you do anything if all we do is label and redefine stuff. The laws are there already, Rape is illegal!

Its too broad, you have to name people or anything that "implicitly promotes rape" as another poster claimed.

Just saying that it exists does nothing.



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 05:22 PM
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originally posted by: mandyslade
Oh lovely, a bunch of men telling us how the things we experience every single day don't exist.

you get raped daily?

my..god!



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 05:26 PM
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originally posted by: Butterfinger
Its too broad, you have to name people or anything that "implicitly promotes rape" as another poster claimed.

And thats the problem, isn't it. nothing specifically does in society, so a bunch of made up crap is then shoved up front
video games, media, male gaze, toxic masculinity, porn, sex shaming, sex promotion, etc etc etc..almost all of which is proven false, but when you demand to see evidence that say, the latest duke nukem video game somehow is making rapists, you are labelled a misogynist rape apologist because...feelings outweigh facts on sensitive topics.

sexist women demanding men aren't allowed to have opinions on this are..just a bunch of sexist women.



posted on Apr, 15 2016 @ 05:41 PM
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Interesting and thought provoking thread, OP. Thanks for starting it. I'm not sure how to begin here, so I guess I'll start with this:

There's a physiological aspect to all of this that has yet to be discussed within this thread. Allow me to be perfectly clear in that I do not aproach this topic as an apologist. I have a penis, and I am not ashamed of this. I do not apologize for this physiological fact. The fact that I have one does not make me a rapist.




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