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Asking the right questions

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posted on May, 27 2016 @ 07:26 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Hi Kev,

1 - There is an outside force involved, local or not, physical or not. Because they don't want to seem inconveniently powerless. Therefore the reverse-engineering, TR3B, Lazar, Aliens, etc. Also, the phenom in the first place would be helpful for keeping hidden advanced tech from privy eyes.
2 - They want to hide that they really have this suggestively physics bending tech. And the secret space program. Which is also artificially built into our conscience. Logic opens flaws in this theory, however.
3 - Also, because people need a new religion, as you state yourself, and the wrong place is the stars. You know magicians, they do something with their left hand while they have your focus on their right.

I'd go with 1 and 3.




posted on May, 27 2016 @ 09:08 PM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: ch1n1t0

But I think it's possible to extract more information.

Been thinking about it.



Kev, would you care to elaborate on this, please?



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 10:36 PM
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a reply to: ch1n1t0

When I had my own high strangeness BTUFO encounter it shared characteristics with a nonordinary state of mind that I was well familiar with that happens during night terrors.

This leads me to believe that total sensory input replacement is often associated with such encounters.

That "there is something there" AND one cannot trust ones senses as a complete virtual reality overwrite is also taking place.

Using that as a general model of what to expect might be helpful.

That's what I've been keeping in mind.

Kev



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:15 PM
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a reply to: mirageman



The UFO phenomenon has also produced little more than lights in the sky since the Cold War ended. I don't think there is a coincidence there.


I dont have a good feel for this, there are many cases like Shag harbor that we would know next to nothing about if not for the efforts of 1 nosey person.

The Hangar 1 series was a mixed bagged of reports from MUFON, but it did highlight just how many cases are relatively unknown (nor studied). One case that seemed pretty credible occurred at the 29:04 mark of this video. If the officers are to believed, how could they be mistaken? Why risk your job and credibility if it is a lie?



How many reports are happening each year now? I really have no idea.



posted on May, 28 2016 @ 12:56 PM
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a reply to: ch1n1t0

In all the truth could not be more obvious.

At the time of a UFO sighting or cattle mute, black helicopters appear. Is that not completely obvious?

At the time of an abductee disclosing their experiences their phones become tapped. Is that not completely obvious?

The most respected human beings in the world who have worked in top secret projects, make statements at the time of their passing, pleading to believe them that the government is lying to us and UFOs are real. Is that not completely obvious?

The government gets caught red handed in lying to confirm what is being said. Is that not completely obvious?

Yet, ignorant, stubborn, ridiculous human beings, the lowest pathetic lifeforms on the planet earth, still chose to believe a consistent liar over the most respected people in the world who are pleading for you to believe their words. Any person on this forum who has read a thing or two on this subject, is a complete embarrassment to our species if they do not believe that aliens have been here on earth for a long time.



posted on May, 28 2016 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: UFOdanger

Define alien.

Just the aggressiveness of the way you present your stance tell me that you really aren't very much in the loop of this thread or the T&C of the website, seeing that you're new here explains it. Knowledge of which lasts you longer around here. Not that you break the T&C, it's just a general observation I'm sharing.

Just the acceptance of this assumption, that it's ET, is reaching for conclusions without looking at the evidence with an open mind. Yes, UFO's (UAPs being a more correct term) are real, and yes, I think it's likely that you might be wrong with your assumptions that UFOs are ET (or most, if you'd go for game of semantics, which I doubt). All that you outlined points to the fact the government is very much interested in the subject and also likes to keep it under wraps, but nothing else. And it is obvious questions that you're asking, already answered ones. To get you back in the loop - we tend to ask the not so obvious questions here.

If you're wondering on the harshness, I'm not dismissing the ET-hypothesis, while you're dismissing all other hypothesis, or at least from the way you postulate your thoughts.
edit on 28-5-2016 by ch1n1t0 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-5-2016 by ch1n1t0 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-5-2016 by ch1n1t0 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2016 @ 09:37 PM
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a reply to: ch1n1t0

I'm always a few breaths away from ranting about the "aliens and UFOs" delusions that so many seem to have.

Now I'm not saying that Aliens and UFOs don't exist.. somewhere in the Universe.

I'm also not saying that there aren't "UAPs" whatever they are, doing all sorts of crazy things on Earth.
and I understand that people mistake those for "UFOs" (nuts and bolts craft presumably with little
green men).

But what bakes my noodle 100%, is the (IMHO) tragically LAME point of view, that there MUST be nuts and bolts "UFOs" and aliens on Earth at the present time, simply because a lot of people FANTASIZE about it being true.. and I could almost live with that.. but the vastly MORE LAME thing, is that hardly anyone who holds this view seems to understand..

that just because some critter drives a nuts and bolts craft across half the Universe to get here (presuming that is possible and is happening), that they would be KIND or FRIENDLY to humans.

I'm 1/4 Native American, and European Settlers came to American, and slaughtered nearly all of the original inhabitants of this land and took nearly ALL their stuff.

I can't imagine in my wildest dreams, why any SANE person would at random, take the luck of the draw, and hope that alien beings were coming here to 'rescue us from ourselves'.

Oh sure, it's POSSIBLE that they would actually be kind, totally wise, and would live to kiss all our boo boo's and fix all our problems.

But it's just as possible that they are just like us.. no matter their level of technology or social evolution - ravening, raping, pillaging monsters, that consume everything, then move on to a new area, until everything they touch is destroyed.

That's the human way. There is no reason to assume that other "Apex Predators" from other worlds, wouldn't be just the same, or worse than us.

This wish for aliens to rescue us, is just another form of the religious impulse, which has done nothing positive for several thousand years.

IMHO.

Kev



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 03:30 PM
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Vallee published an excellent list of questions in this 2014 document "A Strategy for Research":

www.cnes-geipan.fr...



A. Unknown Global Patterns
• How long has this phenomenon manifested? When did it start?
• What overall Patterns emerge from the available data?
• Is there a pseudo-random model behind these events?
• Does it suggest ongoing interaction with humanity?
• Is there a cyclical pattern of « waves » that can be used to forecast the timing and localization of future events?
• Is it correlated with known natural cycles (physical, astronomical, biological, etc)?
• What relationships emerge when witness-centered parameters are taken into account?

B. Physics of the Phenomenon
• What are the various types of manifestations (orbs, lights, sounds, structured objects) and how do they present in combination?
• What are the measurable effects: light energy output, material composition, compass readings, magnetic remanence, radioactivity?
• What new equipment needs to be designed to improve collection, preservation and analysis?
• How many cases involve impact on plant life? Insect life?
• How can insects and micro-organisms be recruited as enhanced detectors or measuring devices?
• Why is there no reliable, authenticated photograph of a UAP with appreciable detail? Is the problem with our equipment or ...?

C. Special Locations
• What are the characteristics of information-rich areas where the phenomenon appears to manifest often: Bigelow ranch, Col de Vence, Yakima Valley, the Urals cluster, Hessdalen, etc?
• How does its behavior change when confronted with special measures: equipment, new social conditions, military?
• What could be expected from special observation programs at such locations?

D. Social & Cultural Factors
• Did the phenomenon really change its behavior in 1947, or was that simply an effect of the American media?
• How does the phenomenon evolve as a function of geography, culture and physical parameters (hot, cold, ice, type of terrain?)
• How does the phenomenon react to human technology: sensors, cameras, nuclear devices, high technology, advanced aircraft?
• Are there global cycles in the phenomenon’s relationship to humanity (and vice-versa) ?
• Does the phenomenon anticipate or mimic our inventions?
• Does it show a special interest in social upheavals or wars?

E. Impact on Humans
• What is the range of physiological and pathological effects on humans and animals? Does it vary across cultures?
• How do these effects vary with distance, altitude, type of object, time of day, apparent « maneuvers », emitted light/radiation, etc?
• Under what circumstances does interaction result in benefits for humans: apparent healing, enhanced consciousness?
• What are the characteristics of situations where it is a threat to humans, as opposed to other apparent behaviors?
• Under what circumstances is « communication » reported by witnesses?

F. Methodology
• Can analysis disclose evidence of a « control system » behind the hidden patterns of the phenomenon?
• Can we determine what is the reference signal in such control?
• What should the size and scope of a database be in order to reliably support hypothesis testing? How sensitive is it to culture, language, epoch?
• What form of reasoning is appropriate: deductive, inductive, abductive? Why?
• What are the patterns of mimicry used by the phenomenon? Can we separate the underlying « technology » from the simulacra it generates?
• Are we capable of testing our hypotheses reliably? In other words, given a hypothesis with good statistical support, can a skeptical analyst « prove » the opposite hypothesis with equally good statistical support?

edit on 30-5-2016 by Autograf because: formatting



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 04:23 PM
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a reply to: Autograf

He did.

I wish that there were professional researchers using this list of questions.

Kev



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 05:03 PM
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a reply to: Autograf

He missed an important one for percipients:

E. Impact on Humans
• How much confidence do you have in your recollection of the experience?



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

That is very valid and true.

When I met JV, we discussed that factor a fair bit. You'd think that he would,
have put it on the list.

In my own case, of the BTUFO sighting, there were 3 memory revisions
that occurred over a period of a year, on top of the original memory.

Fortunately my autistic memory kept a record of not only the relatively
unaltered (I'm presuming) initial memory, but the 3 revisions.

I do find the process interesting. I"m undecided whether it is simply our
primitive brain attempting to "back fill" like it does so constantly, or
whether there is a 'trickster effect" involved. Or both.

I do not know.

Kev



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 06:21 PM
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This is an interesting thread. Now, about what quiestions to ask I quite like the Vallee list mentioned above, although I'm not sure I agree with his theories. I like his rigorous approach.

UFO (or UAP) - it really just means unidentified flying object/phenomenon. There is no sense in claiming that it does not exist, because then everybody would have to be able to identify and explain everything they witnessed all the time. This is clearly not the case - even with supposedly competent witnesses. Or there would be no UFO/UAP phenomenon.

Insiders vs outsiders. Who are the insiders, or likely to be the insiders, who know more than ourselves about what this phenomenon might be? Are there really any credible insiders, or are we all just as bewildered by UFO/UAP - call it what you will? The official position of every government on Earth is that they have little, or no, idea what this is. Now, some times they might be lying of course to cover up some secret project or other, but might it not also be that they have very little information themselves? It is important to make a good case for who the insiders might be, if you are going to determine what might be valid information and what is disinformation. Especially if there is an agenda.

These might be some interesting avenues to look at.

I also find it puzzling that something that is evolving with us as a phenomenon would chose to appear like a flying triangle at a time where such a machine makes no sense whatsoever, like in the 15th century when Colombus plied the waves. Or indeed anytime before the appearance of our own flying triangles. What is the point of appearing to be a machine when nobody around is able to make any sense of it? Why not a great flying galleon?

There are some sightings out there that to me, at least, seems like it either something we made, or something from the outside. If from the outside, the most likely candidate to me is space. Which is big, and clearly there, and which we know very little about. It is possible to travel in it, because we have done it ourselves, although only for a bit and very slowly.

The father Gill sighting from 1959 is one such sighting. There is a few threads about it on ATS. Here is one.

This, to me at least, seems to be either: Us, meaning some high tech that the pulblic is unaware of or someone else with tech we are not anyway near duplicating (at least officialy) more than 50 years later. Or the father, and his fellow conspirators, are lying through their teeth. Or they hallucinated the whole thing, which is a pretty amazing hallucination. Especially since they watched it for so they tired of it and went to church for a bit, then came back and watched it some more. I guess most of you are familiar with the case, but to you who are not, it really is an amazing case.

Now, with regards to the high strangeness aspect of some of these encounters, it really is possible that this is some unknown phenomenon that creates various illusions of technology that isn't quite perfect (or the quiestion would not arise at all). But might it not also be that technology can create the high strangeness effect by interacting with our senses, and even our brains? Perhaps not even on purpose?

For the record, yes I am quite fond of the extraterrestrial hypothesis, although I might have stated in other threads that I am not married to it. But we have been engaged now for quite a while :-)

Just some thoughts.

BT



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 07:04 PM
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its a big ass universe and i hope we're not alone, but,
if a race of beings can travel light years to visit us, and the best we can reverse engineer is bluetooth, that aint fair.
the white house couldn't keep bill clinton receiving oral sex from a fat chick quiet, you actually think they could cover something this big up? or anything for that matter.
if aliens are visiting and, trying to let us know, they're doing a bad job.
if aliens are visiting and, don't want to be seen, there used to be loads of sightings so, they're doing a bad job.
which leads to...
pretty much everyone now, globally, carries a high quality camera/video recorder, yet sightings have fell to an all time low.
when was the last time a ghost was pictured?
but, a look around youtube points to any number of wild conspiracies,



posted on Jun, 4 2016 @ 10:25 PM
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originally posted by: ch1n1t0
a reply to: UFOdanger

Define alien.

Just the aggressiveness of the way you present your stance tell me that you really aren't very much in the loop of this thread or the T&C of the website, seeing that you're new here explains it. Knowledge of which lasts you longer around here. Not that you break the T&C, it's just a general observation I'm sharing.

Just the acceptance of this assumption, that it's ET, is reaching for conclusions without looking at the evidence with an open mind. Yes, UFO's (UAPs being a more correct term) are real, and yes, I think it's likely that you might be wrong with your assumptions that UFOs are ET (or most, if you'd go for game of semantics, which I doubt). All that you outlined points to the fact the government is very much interested in the subject and also likes to keep it under wraps, but nothing else. And it is obvious questions that you're asking, already answered ones. To get you back in the loop - we tend to ask the not so obvious questions here.

If you're wondering on the harshness, I'm not dismissing the ET-hypothesis, while you're dismissing all other hypothesis, or at least from the way you postulate your thoughts.


I think there can be no doubt that the truth is alien, meaning little green men from outer space.

I understand and believe in having an approach of etiquette, but the reason why I am passionate about this is because of the tremendous amount of lies surrounding the historical events of the past. This is very much like the Dead Sea Scrolls. I hat eit with so much of a passion that human beings in power deliberately conspire and what most outrages me, is that they pull it off and make people passionately believe in things that are false, one of them being the delusion of religion and another being the delusion that we are not being visited by an ET species. Secondary to my absolute frustration to my brothers and sisters in believing lies from people who lie, is that they do not believe the truth from honorable men and women who speak the truth, most often before they pass which deeply applies more importance to the subject being spoken of in a court of law. I am so disgusted that the most honorable men and women in the world can come out and tell us we are being visited and they are not believed.

It is possible to prove a conspiracy of lies as opposed to the truth which forces it's head out every time and time again. The majority of mainstream belief may be a certain thing, but every accountable witness can demonstrate one applicable truth that is consistent every time and is only known to serious researchers and investigators. It is completely irrational to think that a logical unlikely event is not truthful when it comes from a dubious source, yet all the credible witnesses claim and agree on the unlikely event. It is completely final, that we learned after Roswell for physical reality that absolute proof was evident and that the public could not be told because they could not handle the truth.

So as we see the world of UFOlogy evolve, the natural timeline of events led researchers to abductions and cattle mutilations, just an absolute fact, so when these witnesses go to people like Bud Hopkins for therapy, it is of no surprise to the least that we have the same reports of the Roswell aliens reported to Leonard Stringfield became popping up. I am sure that they are here because it was revealed to me, as you would be also if you were in those shoes, but this post is about even if I was not shown them, with everything that has taken place since Roswell, there is just no doubt at all.



posted on Jun, 5 2016 @ 07:25 AM
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a reply to: UFOdanger

You just wrote a load of conspiracy clichés that are brought out all the time.

How about some PROOF that would be better.



posted on Jun, 5 2016 @ 01:36 PM
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originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: UFOdanger

You just wrote a load of conspiracy clichés that are brought out all the time.

How about some PROOF that would be better.


It is absurd that you are completely avoiding the truth that our highest ranking military officers in the darkest of black ops ever existed have taken the utmost precautions resulting to violence if needed in order to keep a lid on this. It is completely absurd that for one example, a UFO researcher risks his life in order to tell us the truth and he undergoes a knee surgery which made him pass away. In other examples the researchers tell us specifically that they believe people are attempting to take their life and they promise us that they are not suicidal by any means - but when the officials say they caused suicide right afterwards - you believe it!

That I am not bringing your so called proof, as if I am supposed to show you a live alien over this webpage or something completely outlandish and impossible, is the least of ridiculous claims or delusional thinking that you have, for the main understanding of rationality is blatantly that you have no intention of putting your senses to use: You have ears but refuse to hear, you have eyes but refuse to see, you have a mind but you stubbornly and pridefully refuse to think!

At least all your pride has absolutely no chance of attaining close to the amount of integrity that I have, for I listen to the most honorable men and women who have live on earth - and I believe what they tell me from their sincere heart, the same information that you refuse to believe from an utmost honest man just because it doesn't fit inside of your small box in the way of your thinking. All of these honorable men and women, the most honorable generation that ever lived on earth, love and appreciate me for listening to them and believing them when they plead for my attention. These same individuals look down on you with laughter thinking of your absurdity, that egotistical notions of human nature prevent you from using a rational mind of logic - all because your selfish ego is too immature to believe something that you thought was too out of the ordinary to suggest. it takes 100s of years and many generations to evolve out of your pathetic and immature way of thinking.



posted on Jun, 5 2016 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: UFOdanger

I think wmd meant PROOF not of the existence of UFOs (UAP), but of them being ET. (correct me if I'm wrong of course)

I see that you say you are sure about them being ET because of so many people coming forward with information. Now... As credible as any person can be, he is still susceptible to error. Especially, in a stress situation. Especially if it's a force vastly different from our concepts and understandings, and as advanced as the phenom's characteristics suggest it is. And it's not only that.

You type like a sound person. It would be good for both you and UFOlogy if you tried accepting the validity of these next questions - Do you think that some (if not many) of these credible people can't be bought? Or misled? Or be willfully deceptive for their own reasons, no matter how honorable they might be (every single person has skeletons in the closet).

I have two questions for you - have you ever seen a UFO? Second - how much do you trust your own self?

To make a point I'll throw an image in the mix.




posted on Jun, 5 2016 @ 02:41 PM
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Interesting questions ...How many INTERCEPTOR aircraft were lost between 1947 to current?
How are the losses listed?
Where were the most losses recorded?



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