This is what happens when you have marxist socialist central planning.

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

It can be done better and far cheaper locally with a private company.

Less waste and abuse more local oversight.

a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

Where is the profit in providing subsidized food, shelter and medicine to those who are priced out of the market by underpaying (underperforming) private employers?

That sounds like a Tesla-level business plan in the making.

I still havent figured out how people still think that hillary and bernie are commies, and what does venezuela have to do with both of them.

This video shows an actual supermarket in venezuela. It isn't empty but basic items are missing.



There are doritos at around 2:40 so how socialist can they be...oops they are red.

a reply to: Indigent
Man I feel sorry for the people that have to actually live in that authoritarian non-sense.

Why would the Cuban government collude with Chavez to destroy Venezuela?

originally posted by: John_Rodger_Cornman
a reply to: Indigent
Man I feel sorry for the people that have to actually live in that authoritarian non-sense.

Why would the Cuban government collude with Chavez to destroy Venezuela?

I'm guessing for the same reason that Chavez's daughter has $4.2billion in assets. Wouldn't it be interesting to know how much the Castros and their cronies are worth?

a reply to: ketsuko

Kind of a good point, except Sanders isn't proposing pure socialism where everyone gets an equal share of everything. Plus, your example is extremely overly simplistic. Wouldn't it be more like:

Everyone needs 20
People with 0 get 20
People with 20 get 20
People with 30 get 25
People with 40 get 30
People with 500 get 300
...

Not written "to scale" or with any actual thought put into "rates" or anything, of course, but I think it paints a more accurate picture than your example, which is the one used by people trying to trick people into thinking the plan is to bring everyone down equally to the lowest-common-denominator.

It's the same reason people believe in the notion of the wealthier people scaling back their effort and earnings - the lie that by working harder/smarter and investing, you'll gain nothing, and this have no motivation. That's full pure communism. In the case of pure communism, I'd agree but Sanders is about flattening the bell curve. Essentially, forcing trickle down economics to work, since, as billionaires became wealthier, shockingly, they didn't pay their employees more out of the goodness of their hearts - they just legislated ways to export jobs more efficiently so they could drive down wages and gather up an even bigger percentage of the nation's wealth.

a reply to: daskakik

Doritos is PepsiCo, PepsiCo in Venezuela is part of polar, basically the only private company that produce food in Venezuela, it still exist because it was too big so they left it last, by the time the government wanted to took it down the government could not do it or else would be total collapse.

One of the reasons polar still exist is the owner is filthy rich and prefers to lost money in Venezuela that allow the government to win, whoever he saw what was coming and started productions plants in Colombia, basically what is left in Venezuela is not a business but a pet to him

a reply to: Indigent

Wow.

That is crazy.

originally posted by: Indigent
Doritos is PepsiCo,

I read that the scarcity is really just about 42 items which are controlled.

I mentioned doritos because they are such an "american" product.

Actually the shelves are not really empty.

a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

Says the man whose country has socialized (rescued) the Too Big To Fail Banking System (Bail ins coming soon)

Nothing really new in your Red Scare thread

Similar oil markets attacks have been aimed at Russia for the last 4 months

When a nation is so dependant on one natural resource (oil) you are at the mercy of the international markets and speculators, shorting by Big Financial players, ie JP Morgan Goldman Sachs

The biggest Economy in the world (That's you USA) was bought to its knees in 2008 by these players needing the Govt to bail out the banking system.

People lost their houses, end result these same crooks went back in an rebrought the assets with Govt TARP money
Not many countries are blessed like the USA having the biggest Military enabling it to go in and steal resources, or to control the oil & drugs for its super corporations, and also propping up the $Petrol dollar.

Your national debt for the last 5 years has been hovering at 80% of GDP

en.wikipedia.org...

www.economist.com...

The real source of trouble, private-sector economists agree, is price and exchashortsellinge controls imposed by the government, along with nationalisations of food processing and farmland. The diving price of oil, virtually Venezuela’s only export, means that the government can no longer import its way out of trouble. Earnings of foreign exchange are expected to drop by $35 billion this year, from $65 billion in 2014

fabiusmaximus.com...

Another perspective Watch labor, one of the — or perhaps the — major engine of the economy. New claims for unemployment are a sensitive indicator of labor markets, a powerful leading indicator, and hard numbers reported in real time — but they’re noisy. Claims have given a tentative warning, as their rate of improvement slows.

if you feel inclined...to be educated
www.census.gov...

a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Leftist guerrilla in Venezuela started by direct intervention of Cuba, unlike Colombia Venezuela was very powerful after the last dictatorship and the government crushed the rebels. Once they got military defeated the government offer them the opportunity to participate in politics.

Part of what was the guerrilla did not do this, instead they infiltrated the military. Chavez was part of this communist indoctrination and basically since 82 he started to plot a coup. He even travel to Cuba in those early years.

By the end of the 80s Venezuela economy deteriorate due to bad goverment management, at this time Chavez, an altmirant, with direct intervention of Fidel had a plan that enlisted about 1/3 of the army, the plan was to make the coup and place former president caldera in charge, the plan failed in part because the admiral was not aware of caldera involment, the day of the rebellion he bailed when he find out he was not going to be the dictator of Venezuela.

After some more events caldera came to power and pardoned Chavez and the rest of the rebels. One of them become governor of one of the richest state in the country and made an adequate job. By this time Chavez made 4 years of campaign to become president, during this time he pretended to be a right wing strong man.

When he came to power he changed radically to the left, and then started the public approach to Fidel.

Gradually with each election the rhetoric shifted more and more to the left, it started as a nationalistic movement and by 2002 it was socialist. By this time there was a really confusing coup that help Chavez consolidate, after this Chavez security staff was completely integrated by Cuban intelligence as he don't trust Venezuelans.

The cuban intelligence (g2) started an active roll in the army as advisers, indoctrination began, all aspects of culture changed, the motto of the army change to socialism or death, systematically all industry and means of productions became part of the state, Chavez collapsed production and replaced by importation to have more control of all aspects of Venezuela, this was all under the advice of Cuba.

In parallel corruption was rampant and it's covered in the other post, the degradation generated by corruption hinder Chavez, by 2006 he could not control everything thighly, by 2008 it was too much and the system started to collaps beyond his control.

When maduro came to power he was just a puppet that could not do anything, the real power was controlled by the corrupt leaders that did not want to lose control of its money, oil collapsed and there was no more money to sustain the grossly overpriced corrupt import scheme, instead of stop stealing they just decreased the import volumes.

From the start Chavez wanted to be Fidel, I don't really know what, son perhaps? Fidel used Chavez to replace what Cuba lost after the soviet union collapse, together they destroy Venezuela to guarantee Chavez control, cancer was not in the plans, corruption was the cancer of the country, and Chavez tumor was the other

By the way, most of Fidel involvement was revealed by Chavez along the hours upon hours he spoke on tv

a reply to: daskakik

Want to come and see for yourself?

originally posted by: Indigent
Want to come and see for yourself?

Sure but I can't so, all I can do is look at vids like the one I posted. The one in the OP didn't show anything, although I'll admit that I hopped around it, just seemed to talk about it.

a reply to: daskakik

So you trust a video and not a Venezuelan...

Tomorrow from my desktop I'll get you the other videos...

originally posted by: Indigent
So you trust a video and not a Venezuelan...

Well the bit about scarcity being just about the 42 controlled items is from a venezuelan.

Here's the link but it is in spanish:
www.bbc.com...

Tomorrow from my desktop I'll get you the other videos...

Can you include some local markets because, as a latin american, I know that the bulk of commerce happens in those places.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

People did that when interracial marriages were legalized. People were running around screaming that soon people would be marrying their cats and dogs. Well, that didn't happen.

What in the world does interracial marriage have to do with any of this?

Are you trying to (obtusely and dishonestly) associate anti-Marxism with racism?

a reply to: Indigent

man that is horrible.

Seems like Chavez was a puppet for the Cuban government.

Authoritarian policies turned that country into a prison. I feel bad for the people that have to live in that.
Beautiful people. Rich,vivid culture. Long history.

Never trust government.

Never trust people saying government can help you.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

Says the man whose country has socialized (rescued) the Too Big To Fail Banking System (Bail ins coming soon)

By the corporate owned Democrats and Republicans not the Libertarians

Nothing really new in your Red Scare thread

We are in $19 trillion because of those two political cartels.

Similar oil markets attacks have been aimed at Russia for the last 4 months

By who? The US government does not produce oil.we are not as dependent on foriegn oil as you think

We export a lot of natural gas and oil to Mexico and other countries.

www.eia.gov...
www.bloomberg.com...



When a nation is so dependant on one natural resource (oil) you are at the mercy of the international markets and speculators, shorting by Big Financial players, ie JP Morgan Goldman Sachs

The biggest Economy in the world (That's you USA) was bought to its knees in 2008 by these players needing the Govt to bail out the banking system.

People lost their houses, end result these same crooks went back in an rebrought the assets with Govt TARP money
Not many countries are blessed like the USA having the biggest Military enabling it to go in and steal resources, or to control the oil & drugs for its super corporations, and also propping up the $Petrol dollar.

Your national debt for the last 5 years has been hovering at 80% of GDP

en.wikipedia.org...

www.economist.com...

The real source of trouble, private-sector economists agree, is price and exchashortsellinge controls imposed by the government, along with nationalisations of food processing and farmland. The diving price of oil, virtually Venezuela’s only export, means that the government can no longer import its way out of trouble. Earnings of foreign exchange are expected to drop by $35 billion this year, from $65 billion in 2014

fabiusmaximus.com...

Another perspective Watch labor, one of the — or perhaps the — major engine of the economy. New claims for unemployment are a sensitive indicator of labor markets, a powerful leading indicator, and hard numbers reported in real time — but they’re noisy. Claims have given a tentative warning, as their rate of improvement slows.

if you feel inclined...to be educated
www.census.gov...

Where did we steal resources?
Who in our government controls the drugs?
The US dollar is "legal tender" of the Federal reserve banking system(private banking system that is not apart of the government) not the US government.

Federal Reserve notes are legal tender currency notes. The twelve Federal Reserve Banks issue them into circulation pursuant to the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. A commercial bank belonging to the Federal Reserve System can obtain Federal Reserve notes from the Federal Reserve Bank in its district whenever it wishes. It must pay for them in full, dollar for dollar, by drawing down its account with its district Federal Reserve Bank.

Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy.

www.treasury.gov...

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

People did that when interracial marriages were legalized. People were running around screaming that soon people would be marrying their cats and dogs. Well, that didn't happen.

What in the world does interracial marriage have to do with any of this?

Are you trying to (obtusely and dishonestly) associate anti-Marxism with racism?

You mean like the "Race mixing is communism" scare tactics they used in the 60s? (edit: This was in Little Rock, Arkansas.)
upload.wikimedia.org...

Edit to Add: And just for kicks and giggles, let's not forget this KKK sign. It warned African Americans against attending communist meetings and against seeking social equality. So yeah, there was a lot of racism mixed into the anti-communist fearmongering right here in the US.