It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Dead Sea Scrolls: James vs Paul

page: 1
5
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 11:00 AM
link   
Biblical scholar and professor Robert Eisenman, the first independent scholar to view the entire unpublished material from the Dead Sea Scrolls Eisenman and translate and publish them theorized that the end of the Damascus document was an excommunication letter to Paul from the Jerusalem church. Here is the Document: Damascusdocument

Pay attention to # 40 foundations of Righteousness.

Also he wrote a book about it called James the brother of Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls subtitled Paul the enemy.

James the brother of Jesus


Do your own research and draw your own conclusions, just enjoy yourself.
edit on 9-4-2016 by Solarmania because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-4-2016 by Solarmania because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-4-2016 by Solarmania because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-4-2016 by Solarmania because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 11:21 AM
link   
James the brother of Jesus

This is the link to the book, the computer combined them twice for some reason.



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 11:43 AM
link   
a reply to: Solarmania

The book of James found in the NT was written no later than 48AD. this James was martyred in Acts 12, he is the brother of John. Not the brother of Jesus who was an elder in Jerusalem. Even the context is that of the kingdom and living in it as Jesus taught all Jews too.

James even wrote only to the 12 tribes. he said they were scattered. Peter called them strangers but they are Israel these are the Jews who were in the east still (like the wise men) and in other areas they were taken before Christ time.

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Who is answered in the first verse., the why follows, The what and the how of the book also follow. But it is for Israel in tribulation (which is yet to come).

By the way, you should really just go start y our own web site instead of being banned so many time and cluttering up ATS with your same old post. You and it is getting old already.


edit on 9-4-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 12:27 PM
link   

originally posted by: Solarmania
Biblical scholar and professor Robert Eisenman, the first independent scholar to view the entire unpublished material from the Dead Sea Scrolls Eisenman and translate and publish them theorized that the end of the Damascus document was an excommunication letter to Paul from the Jerusalem church. Here is the Document: Damascusdocument

Pay attention to # 40 foundations of Righteousness.

Also he wrote a book about it called James the brother of Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls subtitled Paul the enemy.

James the brother of Jesus


Do your own research and draw your own conclusions, just enjoy yourself.


Replacement Israel hates Paul? Paul exposes that replacement Israel belief!

Basic structures are part of any kind of Greek city in the Ancient World. And what Alexander the Great and his successors did was they took that basic Greek structure, and they transplanted it all over the Eastern Mediterranean, whether they were in Egypt or Syria or Asia Minor or anyplace else. One can travel right now to Turkey or Syria or Israel or Jordan or Egypt, and one can see excavations of towns, and it’s remarkable how they all look so much alike, because they’re all inspired by this originally Greek model of the city. 


Alexander and his successors Hellenized the entire eastern Mediterranean, and that meant, every major city would have a certain commonality to it. It would have a certain koine to it; that is, a Greek overlay, over what may be also be there, the original indigenous kind of cultures and languages. Just what was this high priest named Jason thinking, when he built a gymnasium in Jerusalem in 175BC; he also founded a Greek City structure.


The Greek polis, which is simply the Greek word for city, had several institutions that are very important; They all practiced a certain kind of Greek education. The Greek word paideia, means education, but it also means more than simply role learning or memorization or learning to read like we think. Paideia is the Greek word that means the formation of the young man.


Throughout all this it was mainly young men and boys who were educated, girls could be given some education, if their families were wealthy enough, but the cities didn’t really concern themselves so much with girls’ education. Their family might, but the cities concerned themselves with the education of their boys. So paideia referred to the education of the young man, both mentally, but militarily-so one was taught to fight-and culturally; one might be taught other things about culture. 


One might even have some music training or something like that. The place where this education took place was the gymnasium. Now a gymnasium doesn’t mean what it means in English, it actually comes from the Greek word for naked, gymnos. And the reason it was called ‘the naked place’ is because, of course, young Greek men always exercised in the nude and played sports in the nude. But this also became the place where one would do other kinds of learning. 


So if one was learning rhetoric, for example, you might practice giving speeches at the gymnasium. But also men in town would just kind of gather there, it was kind of a place where men gathered and they had gone to school at the same place. One would meet your friends, play games; so this would all take place in the gymnasium.

Another institution was what they called the ephebeia. When one was a young boy, one would have studied just reading and writing Homer. When one got to be 16 or 22 around their, one might enter the ephebeia; one would become an ephebe, and that just meant that one was past their sort of early secondary training and now one was being really in training to be a warrior and a citizen. 


They would march together in a parade in town. They would go on military training perhaps together. They would also engage in sports together, and they would develop a camaraderie because they were expected then to be the fighting force for their city, their city-state. So the ephebeia was this institution that every boy had to go through in order then to be a full citizen of a city. 


Their also was these political structures, the first political structure is the demos. Demos just means the “people,” It’s just a Greek word for “the people.” But it actually referred more politically to all of the male citizens, and in Greek cities, by tradition, only men were citizens of a city. But all the men who were citizens had a vote, and the demos referred to that political body of voting men. 


Now they kept this idea that the demos=that is, the adult citizen males of a city-were a political body. And that’s when, if you had everybody come to the theater for a big debate about something, you could still have people voting in certain things that the city might decide to do, although they couldn’t rule themselves completely by themselves. 


Then they had a smaller council that might be 50 people. It varied the size, according to the city. The council was called the boule, and that referred to a smaller council of older men, usually, who made decisions that they then would put before the whole the demos the whole voting population. These are the basic structures that are part of a Greek City, and Jason just brought Alexander’s dream to Jerusalem. 


Their was a group of former high priests, who have been dislocated and other priestly families withdrawing from Jerusalem, and apparently going out in the desert, and maybe building a community out there, and we find out about them in the twentieth century when the Dead Sea scrolls were discovered in the late 1940’s. So that may have been another way to respond to this increasing Hellenization in Jerusalem, to just pull away and from a different community.



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 12:35 PM
link   
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Im not even talking about the book of James. Im talking about the James the Just(Zaddik) of the Zaddikim, a group mentioned frequently in the Dead Sea Scrolls that was evidently lead by James the brother of Jesus, known as James the Just.

I didn't even mention the book of James which despite your personal opinion is believed to be written by and is attributed to James the leader of Jerusalem known as the brother of Jesus.

I don't know what you get out of telling people that James wasn't written by James the Just but it doesn't make a difference to me. It has all the authority of a leader in its declaration of faith in the absence of good deeds not really being faith at all, a seeming rebuttal of the false doctrine of grace taught by Paul that got him in hot water with Jerusalem.

So you are most likely wrong about the book of James, if it isn't written by James it is pseudepigraphal because he is one of 3 along with Peter and John that were pillars of the church so it doesn't make sense for a lesser James to be in that group and it makes sense that it WAS James the Just, Peter and John that wrote those epistles.
edit on 9-4-2016 by Solarmania because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 12:47 PM
link   

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: Solarmania
Biblical scholar and professor Robert Eisenman, the first independent scholar to view the entire unpublished material from the Dead Sea Scrolls Eisenman and translate and publish them theorized that the end of the Damascus document was an excommunication letter to Paul from the Jerusalem church. Here is the Document: Damascusdocument

Pay attention to # 40 foundations of Righteousness.

Also he wrote a book about it called James the brother of Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls subtitled Paul the enemy.

James the brother of Jesus


Do your own research and draw your own conclusions, just enjoy yourself.


Replacement Israel hates Paul? Paul exposes that replacement Israel belief!

Basic structures are part of any kind of Greek city in the Ancient World. And what Alexander the Great and his successors did was they took that basic Greek structure, and they transplanted it all over the Eastern Mediterranean, whether they were in Egypt or Syria or Asia Minor or anyplace else. One can travel right now to Turkey or Syria or Israel or Jordan or Egypt, and one can see excavations of towns, and it’s remarkable how they all look so much alike, because they’re all inspired by this originally Greek model of the city. 


Alexander and his successors Hellenized the entire eastern Mediterranean, and that meant, every major city would have a certain commonality to it. It would have a certain koine to it; that is, a Greek overlay, over what may be also be there, the original indigenous kind of cultures and languages. Just what was this high priest named Jason thinking, when he built a gymnasium in Jerusalem in 175BC; he also founded a Greek City structure.


The Greek polis, which is simply the Greek word for city, had several institutions that are very important; They all practiced a certain kind of Greek education. The Greek word paideia, means education, but it also means more than simply role learning or memorization or learning to read like we think. Paideia is the Greek word that means the formation of the young man.


Throughout all this it was mainly young men and boys who were educated, girls could be given some education, if their families were wealthy enough, but the cities didn’t really concern themselves so much with girls’ education. Their family might, but the cities concerned themselves with the education of their boys. So paideia referred to the education of the young man, both mentally, but militarily-so one was taught to fight-and culturally; one might be taught other things about culture. 


One might even have some music training or something like that. The place where this education took place was the gymnasium. Now a gymnasium doesn’t mean what it means in English, it actually comes from the Greek word for naked, gymnos. And the reason it was called ‘the naked place’ is because, of course, young Greek men always exercised in the nude and played sports in the nude. But this also became the place where one would do other kinds of learning. 


So if one was learning rhetoric, for example, you might practice giving speeches at the gymnasium. But also men in town would just kind of gather there, it was kind of a place where men gathered and they had gone to school at the same place. One would meet your friends, play games; so this would all take place in the gymnasium.

Another institution was what they called the ephebeia. When one was a young boy, one would have studied just reading and writing Homer. When one got to be 16 or 22 around their, one might enter the ephebeia; one would become an ephebe, and that just meant that one was past their sort of early secondary training and now one was being really in training to be a warrior and a citizen. 


They would march together in a parade in town. They would go on military training perhaps together. They would also engage in sports together, and they would develop a camaraderie because they were expected then to be the fighting force for their city, their city-state. So the ephebeia was this institution that every boy had to go through in order then to be a full citizen of a city. 


Their also was these political structures, the first political structure is the demos. Demos just means the “people,” It’s just a Greek word for “the people.” But it actually referred more politically to all of the male citizens, and in Greek cities, by tradition, only men were citizens of a city. But all the men who were citizens had a vote, and the demos referred to that political body of voting men. 


Now they kept this idea that the demos=that is, the adult citizen males of a city-were a political body. And that’s when, if you had everybody come to the theater for a big debate about something, you could still have people voting in certain things that the city might decide to do, although they couldn’t rule themselves completely by themselves. 


Then they had a smaller council that might be 50 people. It varied the size, according to the city. The council was called the boule, and that referred to a smaller council of older men, usually, who made decisions that they then would put before the whole the demos the whole voting population. These are the basic structures that are part of a Greek City, and Jason just brought by Alexander’s dream to Jerusalem. 


Their was a group of former high priests, who have been dislocated and other priestly families withdrawing from Jerusalem, and apparently going out in the desert, and maybe building a community out there, and we find out about them in the twentieth century when the Dead Sea scrolls were discovered in the late 1940’s. So that may have been another way to respond to this increasing Hellenization in Jerusalem, to just pull away and from a different community.



Not to be rude, but your not even talking about the Dead Sea Scrolls or Paul or James, and while you sound like you have some theories but you should work on them a little so that you can talk about one topic at a time and you will make more sense. I just don't see the point of saying what you said or even what point you are trying to make.

Damascus document, Dead Sea Scrolls Paul and James the leader of Jerusalem are who and what we are talking about if you need a little help.



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 12:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: Solarmania

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: Solarmania
Biblical scholar and professor Robert Eisenman, the first independent scholar to view the entire unpublished material from the Dead Sea Scrolls Eisenman and translate and publish them theorized that the end of the Damascus document was an excommunication letter to Paul from the Jerusalem church. Here is the Document: Damascusdocument

Pay attention to # 40 foundations of Righteousness.

Also he wrote a book about it called James the brother of Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls subtitled Paul the enemy.

James the brother of Jesus


Do your own research and draw your own conclusions, just enjoy yourself.


Replacement Israel hates Paul? Paul exposes that replacement Israel belief!

Basic structures are part of any kind of Greek city in the Ancient World. And what Alexander the Great and his successors did was they took that basic Greek structure, and they transplanted it all over the Eastern Mediterranean, whether they were in Egypt or Syria or Asia Minor or anyplace else. One can travel right now to Turkey or Syria or Israel or Jordan or Egypt, and one can see excavations of towns, and it’s remarkable how they all look so much alike, because they’re all inspired by this originally Greek model of the city. 


Alexander and his successors Hellenized the entire eastern Mediterranean, and that meant, every major city would have a certain commonality to it. It would have a certain koine to it; that is, a Greek overlay, over what may be also be there, the original indigenous kind of cultures and languages. Just what was this high priest named Jason thinking, when he built a gymnasium in Jerusalem in 175BC; he also founded a Greek City structure.


The Greek polis, which is simply the Greek word for city, had several institutions that are very important; They all practiced a certain kind of Greek education. The Greek word paideia, means education, but it also means more than simply role learning or memorization or learning to read like we think. Paideia is the Greek word that means the formation of the young man.


Throughout all this it was mainly young men and boys who were educated, girls could be given some education, if their families were wealthy enough, but the cities didn’t really concern themselves so much with girls’ education. Their family might, but the cities concerned themselves with the education of their boys. So paideia referred to the education of the young man, both mentally, but militarily-so one was taught to fight-and culturally; one might be taught other things about culture. 


One might even have some music training or something like that. The place where this education took place was the gymnasium. Now a gymnasium doesn’t mean what it means in English, it actually comes from the Greek word for naked, gymnos. And the reason it was called ‘the naked place’ is because, of course, young Greek men always exercised in the nude and played sports in the nude. But this also became the place where one would do other kinds of learning. 


So if one was learning rhetoric, for example, you might practice giving speeches at the gymnasium. But also men in town would just kind of gather there, it was kind of a place where men gathered and they had gone to school at the same place. One would meet your friends, play games; so this would all take place in the gymnasium.

Another institution was what they called the ephebeia. When one was a young boy, one would have studied just reading and writing Homer. When one got to be 16 or 22 around their, one might enter the ephebeia; one would become an ephebe, and that just meant that one was past their sort of early secondary training and now one was being really in training to be a warrior and a citizen. 


They would march together in a parade in town. They would go on military training perhaps together. They would also engage in sports together, and they would develop a camaraderie because they were expected then to be the fighting force for their city, their city-state. So the ephebeia was this institution that every boy had to go through in order then to be a full citizen of a city. 


Their also was these political structures, the first political structure is the demos. Demos just means the “people,” It’s just a Greek word for “the people.” But it actually referred more politically to all of the male citizens, and in Greek cities, by tradition, only men were citizens of a city. But all the men who were citizens had a vote, and the demos referred to that political body of voting men. 


Now they kept this idea that the demos=that is, the adult citizen males of a city-were a political body. And that’s when, if you had everybody come to the theater for a big debate about something, you could still have people voting in certain things that the city might decide to do, although they couldn’t rule themselves completely by themselves. 


Then they had a smaller council that might be 50 people. It varied the size, according to the city. The council was called the boule, and that referred to a smaller council of older men, usually, who made decisions that they then would put before the whole the demos the whole voting population. These are the basic structures that are part of a Greek City, and Jason just brought by Alexander’s dream to Jerusalem. 


Their was a group of former high priests, who have been dislocated and other priestly families withdrawing from Jerusalem, and apparently going out in the desert, and maybe building a community out there, and we find out about them in the twentieth century when the Dead Sea scrolls were discovered in the late 1940’s. So that may have been another way to respond to this increasing Hellenization in Jerusalem, to just pull away and from a different community.



Not to be rude, but your not even talking about the Dead Sea Scrolls or Paul or James, and while you sound like you have some theories but you should work on them a little so that you can talk about one topic at a time and you will make more sense. I just don't see the point of saying what you said or even what point you are trying to make.

Damascus document, Dead Sea Scrolls Paul and James the leader of Jerusalem are who and what we are talking about if you need a little help.


I showed you the history of the Dead Sea Scrolls? Hellenization in Jerusalem is why these people left. Only replacement Israel uses James. You should leave Paul alone, because Paul exposes replacement Israel. You can't get around Paul no matter how many words you type.



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 12:52 PM
link   
a reply to: Solarmania

No you are wrong.



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 01:16 PM
link   
Just a few links I like to give people about the false prophet Saul/Paul

just give me the truth

Judaismvschristianity

lasttrumpet

problemswithpaul

Everyone who wants to know why people are waking up to the false prophet Paul, check out those links



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 01:24 PM
link   
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Oh, that's convincing. The JonsChester said "no, you are wrong" so I guess that's the best he can come up with to support his weird position that a lesser James wrote the book of James.

It's grouped in with Peter and John's epistles and those are the 3 pillars of the church.

What's your rationale? You want to believe that it is not from James the brother of Jesus because you know it is a rebuttal to the false doctrine of grace and Paul and you need it to have less authority because you know James was the big dog in Jerusalem and his word carried serious weight to where he can make Paul go through a humiliating ritual to prove his loyalties and you hate James.



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 01:31 PM
link   
a reply to: newnature1

I have already gotten around Paul. I just say what I honestly believe, that he is a false prophet and that Israel and the apostles were good, he was bad.

Hellenization was Greek, Rome was the reason the Israelites left Jerusalem and Paul didn't expose replacement Israel he was replacement Israel, giving the Romans the Christ myth and selling out his fellow Jews.

Don't tell me to lay off Paul, that is what I like to do. I come up with different ways to prove Paul is a false prophet, and I have a lot of success because I have the truth on my side.

Replacement Israel? What cult are you getting your terminology from son?



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 01:35 PM
link   
a reply to: newnature1

You didn't show me the history of the Dead Sea Scrolls in one message when I have books on the subject in my house with more dss history then you could possibly put in a whole thread never mind one comment.

That was an absurd claim. Replacement Israel was an absurd phrase. I think I will put you on my not worth responding to list.



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 01:46 PM
link   

originally posted by: Solarmania
a reply to: newnature1

You didn't show me the history of the Dead Sea Scrolls in one message when I have books on the subject in my house with more dss history then you could possibly put in a whole thread never mind one comment.

That was an absurd claim. Replacement Israel was an absurd phrase. I think I will put you on my not worth responding to list.



I'm sure they talk about Alexander the Great? What that dude did is the root to the Dead Sea Scrolls. But I did show you why they did leave. The didn't want their children growing up to what happen after they left. You see, the Greek word ‘hades’ came into Biblical use when the translators of the Septuagint chose ‘hades’ to render the Hebrew ‘sheol.’ The problem is that ‘hades’ was used in the Greek world in a vastly different way than ‘sheol.’ In Greek mythology, Hades was the god of the underworld, and then the name of the nether world itself. Charon ferried the souls of the dead across the rivers Styx or Acheron into his abode, where the watchdog Cerberus guarded the gate, so that none might escape. The pagan myth contained all the elements of the medieval eschatology: there was the pleasant Elysium, the gloomy and miserable Tartarus, and even the Plains of Asphodel, where ghosts could wander who were suited for neither of the above. 


This Greek conception of ‘hades’ influenced Hellenistic Israelites, because of the conscious decision of Alexander the Great. He used what is called ‘religious syncretism,’ Alexander took this tendency of syncretism, of mixing together different religious traditions from different places, and he used it as a self-conscious propaganda technique. But what Alexander and his successors did, was they made sort of a conscious, propagandistic decision to use religious syncretism to bind together their kingdoms. 


The Hellenistic Israelites adopt the belief in the immortality of the soul and the idea of a spatial separation in the underworld between the righteous and the godless. The souls of the righteous proceeded immediately after death to heavenly felicity, there to await the resurrection, while the souls of the godless went to a place of torment in ‘hades.’ When Jesus came on the scene, the current Israelite concept of Hades became a subterraneous region where the light of this world does not shine. This region is allowed as a place of custody for souls, in which angels are appointed as guardians to them, who distribute to them temporary punishments, agreeable to every one’s behavior and manners. 


According to Hellenistic Israelites, ‘hades’ is divided into two regions. One is the region of light, where the souls of the righteous dead are brought by angels to the place known as the bosom of Abraham.” The second region is in perpetual darkness, and the souls of the ungodly are dragged by force by the angels allotted for punishment. These angels drag the ungodly into the neighborhood of hell itself, so that they can see and feel the heat of the flames, but they are not thrown into hell itself, until after the final judgment. But a chaos deep and large is fixed between them; insomuch that a just man that has compassion upon them, cannot be admitted, nor can one that is unjust, if he were bold enough to attempt it, pass over it. 


Jesus did indeed capitalized on the popular understanding of the condition of the dead in ‘hades,’ not to endorse such views, but to drive home the importance of heeding in this present life the teachings of Moses and the prophets, because this determines bliss or misery in the world to come.



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 01:48 PM
link   
a reply to: Solarmania

I appreciate what you wrote. I have always had a problem with Paul, I appreciate the links and will indulge my curiosity and peruse them when I have time.

Thank you



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 02:02 PM
link   

originally posted by: Solarmania
Biblical scholar and professor Robert Eisenman, the first independent scholar to view the entire unpublished material from the Dead Sea Scrolls Eisenman and translate and publish them theorized that the end of the Damascus document was an excommunication letter to Paul from the Jerusalem church. Here is the Document: Damascusdocument

Pay attention to # 40 foundations of Righteousness.

Also he wrote a book about it called James the brother of Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls subtitled Paul the enemy.

James the brother of Jesus


Do your own research and draw your own conclusions, just enjoy yourself.


Here is James history. Leviticus 26, beginning with verse 40, is the confession Israel would be called upon to make. Israel would also have to accept the remainder of her punishment, that failure under the law contract would call for and that would be the seven year tribulation. When John the Baptizer came along, had anything new begun? He simply called upon Israel to change their minds about their righteousness. 


John the Baptizer came in connection with Yahweh’s earthly nation Israel and in accordance with an offer to confess their failure under the law contract in order to gain their promised land. That confession itself would be considered a fruit of righteousness in the eyes of Yahweh. The focus during John the Baptizer’s ministry was still Israel and the issue continued to be the land. Nothing had changed except that Israel was being offered the opportunity to confess their failure under the law contract. Israel continued to be the focus and the land continued to be the issue.

If Israel was to regain her land, she would have to make that confession Leviticus 26 called for. And John came offering them, soliciting that confession from the nation. When Jesus comes on the scene; Israel’s Messiah is present among them, and Jesus preaches the same message as John the Baptizer. Nothing new has begun, Israel is still being called upon to make that confession concerning their failure under the law contract. 


Yahweh’s salvation of his people from Egypt, not the Christian sense of personal salvation from sin; that’s anachronistically read back into the Hebrew Bible. It’s not there. Salvation in the Hebrew Bible does not refer to an individual's deliverance from a sinful nature. This is not a concept that is found in the Hebrew Bible. Salvation refers instead, to the concrete, collective, communal salvation from national suffering and oppression, particularly in the form of foreign rule of enslavement. 


Israel’s descent to Egypt sets the stage for the rise of a pharaoh, who, didn’t know Joseph, and all that he had done for Egypt. And this new pharaoh will enslave the Israelites, and so embitter their lives, that their cry will rise up to heaven. Yahweh as Israel’s redeemer and savior, is Yahweh’s physical deliverance of the nation from the hands of her foes. But the physical redemption of the Israelites is going to reach its climax in the covenant that will be concluded at Sinai. 


Yahweh’s redemption of the Israelites, is a redemption for a purpose, for at Sinai, the Israelites will become Yahweh’s people, bound by a covenant. The covenant concluded at Sinai is referred to as the Mosaic covenant. The Mosaic covenant differs radically from the Noahide and the patriarchal covenants, because here Yahweh makes no promises beyond being the patron or protector of Israel; and also, in this covenant, he set terms that require obedience to a variety of laws and commandments. 


The Mosaic covenant is neither unilateral, it’s a bilateral covenant, involving mutual, reciprocal obligations, nor is it unconditional like the other two. It is conditional; the first bilateral, conditional covenant. If Israel doesn’t fulfill her oblations by obeying Yahweh’s torah, his instructions, and living in accordance with his will, as expressed in the laws and instruction, then Yahweh will not fulfill his obligation of protection and blessing towards Israel. 


So the Mosaic covenant, understanding of the relationship between Yahweh and Israel; the history of Israel will be governed by this one outstanding reality of covenant. Israel’s fortunes will be seen to ride on the degree of its faithfulness to this covenant. The nature of the biblical text, it reflects a range of perceptions about Yahweh and his relation to creation and to Israel. Understanding the making sense of the historical odyssey of the nation of Israel in covenant with Yahweh-that is its concern. 


The law contract, Israel’s possession of the land called for perfect righteousness through performance. Israel produced no righteousness in connection with the law contract. She did not produce that righteousness back in the days of the prophets. She had not produced the fruit of righteousness the contract called for during the days of John the Baptizer’s ministry or during the days of Jesus’ earthly ministry to that nation. James made that confession and he was all about that kingdom.



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 02:06 PM
link   
Here is Paul's history. Matt. 12:36 - The meaning of ‘idle word’ is careless or useless sayings. Starting in Matt. 12:22, their was a Pharisee who was guilty of everything in the context of that story. Paul is who that Pharisee was and Paul was not only first in line, when it came to dispensing the grace of God, Paul was also foremost in crime when it came to murdering the saints of Israel’s earthly kingdom program. 


If Paul was at Pentecost, would Paul himself, if he took part in stoning Stephen for believing the message given at Pentecost, would he have been a blasphemer at Pentecost? In Paul’s pre-grace zealousness, he would have been a foremost rejecter of any notion whatsoever that Jesus was Israel’s messiah or that Jesus had been risen from among the dead. 


First in line, first in crime are apt descriptions for the Apostle of Grace. Paul was the chosen spokesman for God to relay the information for this entire dispensation of grace. God is not dealing with Israel nationally today, he is dealing with all alike in the Age of Grace. The apostle Paul dispensed a message that the 12 apostles had not dispensed, and that message was different, and that message was geared to the Gentiles. 


Paul is the chief pattern of God’s grace to all, he is the foremost example. We need to understand that even though Paul was saved, Paul still considered himself to be a sinner. Paul understood the word: Sin. And Paul understood that word meant to come short of the righteousness belonging to God himself. Paul is the foremost example of the impossibility, the total impossibility of gaining righteousness before God through the performance of the flesh. Those who are sealed in Christ, our careless or useless sayings and words are a Judgment Seat of Christ issue. Because you hate Paul, you are standing in your own righteousness; Adam, Adam in rebelling. Bad mouth my Apostle will ya?



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 02:43 PM
link   
a reply to: newnature1

Here's my problem with how you started this post...you borrow from the Jewish religions books and then make wild suppositions pertaining to Christian "apostles" who existed thousands of years later, that are utterly unsubstantiated.

There's a reason all Jews didn't become Christians, for 1. Neither did Jesus, for 2. Jesus isn't even an Aramaic name
3. If Jesus made a new law as you all say, why do you keep relying on the Torah to substantiate Jesus and his apostles?



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 02:49 PM
link   

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: newnature1

Here's my problem with how you started this post...you borrow from the Jewish religions books and then make wild suppositions pertaining to Christian "apostles" who existed thousands of years later, that are utterly unsubstantiated.

There's a reason all Jews didn't become Christians, for 1. Neither did Jesus, for 2. Jesus isn't even an Aramaic name
3. If Jesus made a new law as you all say, why do you keep relying on the Torah to substantiate Jesus and his apostles?



Paul was never about starting a new religion. There’s no “Christianity” in Paul’s letters. There are no “Christians” in Paul’s letters. You can’t find the word. You can’t find the concept.



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 02:52 PM
link   
a reply to: newnature1

Well then..are you Jewish following Paul? Or Christian?

And you answered none of my questions.
edit on 9-4-2016 by BlueJacket because: Eta



posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 03:01 PM
link   

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: newnature1

Well then..are you Jewish following Paul? Or Christian?

And you answered none of my questions.


The best way I can answer your questions it this. It is obvious that God worked through visual evidences in connection with the Israelites, who required a sign during the time that God’s program with Israel was in progress. Yet Israel, for the most part, remained an unbelieving people.

The body of Christ are not the sign nation, and we have not become the assumers and fulfillers of God’s program with that sign-nation. Many think we have, that program has been placed on hold while God completes his plan and purpose for the saints of this dispensation.


We are the saints of a brand new program. While Israel walked by sight, we walk not by sight, but by faith. The focus today is no longer on the outward, but on the inward. God is not giving us those visual manifestations, we have a new apostle through whom we have been given God’s completed instruction.


We have not been promised that earthly kingdom, an earthly inheritance. God has prepared a heavenly habitation for the saints of this dispensation, our citizenship is in heaven. God in his infinite wisdom pre-decreed that every believer would be joined to his son, fully identified with his son. 


God also pre-decided that we the believer would be blessed with all the blessings and privileges of an adopted adult son. God decided in advance that we the believer are to be the praise of the glory of his grace. God has pre-determined all these outcomes for us

Paul was not an earthly kingdom program apostle, God had no need for an additional apostle to fulfill the program of Israel’s promised earthly kingdom. Everything related to Israel’s program comes with the number twelve, God did not add a thirteenth to that program. 


The 12 apostles had been promised that they would each reign on one of twelve thrones that would be set up over the 12 tribes of Israel, when that earthly kingdom was established on planet earth. Israel as a nation rejected their king, they rejected their promised messiah and thus, rejected their kingdom. 


Israel’s promised kingdom was right at their doorstep, right within their grasp, but that promised program was put on hold. The very blood that was to initiate Israel’s New Covenant, we have a fellowship in that, we have a communion with that blood, it’s the blood that redeemed us as well.



new topics

top topics



 
5
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join