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FDNY Chiefs KNEW WTC 2, 1 and 7 would FAIL
page: 1share:
To all the brave Firefighters posting in this forum.
It's time that we put this subject of suspected complotted foreknowledge about the coming collapses of WTC2S, WTC1N and WTC7 by FDNY Chiefs and other FDNY staff in the right perspective.
Of course they started to understand from the detailed radio messages from firemen and other sources, shortly before those two first collapses, and all afternoon before WTC7 fell, that these three towers were in danger of collapse.
I can't sweeten up the deal. The evidence however for foul play of OTHERS at an incredible level of compliance, is far too broad.
You probably all keep posting here, since you can't imagine at all, that some (not all) of your most powerful top superiors, such as top level politicians, top Army brass, top level CEO's and top level members of NSA, CIA, DEA, FBI and Police that assisted with the later cover-up, would have planned such a heinous act, that did cost the lives of hundreds of your Brothers and Sisters.
That's why I repeat it one more time :
My consequent 9/11 conspiracy-based posting here was triggered mainly by the stories of the surviving firemen, when the Oral Histories of the Fire Department of New York (FDNY) came out. And stories from others, such as assisting police officers and paramedics.
And it was also firmly triggered by the few recorded telephone calls by Tower workers, and the few radio dispatches recorded clearly enough to hear the last screams of those damned in advance, but so incredibly BRAVE MEN and WOMEN, who ran up all those endless stairs with full heavy gear (most of them), to RESCUE complete strangers to them, in need of a safe way out.
Despite themselves having mothers, wifes, kids, brothers, sisters and other family or friends, waiting for them to return home save again. They took, and still take those same risks again and again, at every call of duty.
Normal people take these kinds of risks only for family and friends, THEY take those risks every damn day that a fire must be fought. To rescue complete strangers to them..!
To all of you : my utmost deep R E S P E C T !
By the way, is it some sort of standard firefighter-speak, for all firefighters posting here under different names, to not include little words like "the" and "a" and a few other small english words? I heard and saw that also a lot in SE and NE Asia.
Most of you do post a lot of true, proven facts, in between the very few completely wrong ones. Please proceed.
And I still hope I can convince and correct you about the few really wrong "facts" you post.
A reply to: TaleDawn
A reply to: hellobruce
A reply to: firerescue
Those Chiefs knew, shortly before both Tower collapses, that something went terribly wrong with these two high-rise buildings.
And especially after the first collapse, the WTC2 South Tower one.
After a NYPD chopper pilot radioed in at 10:20 that WTC1, the North Tower, was now starting to lean, and then suddenly collapsed 8 minutes later at 10:28:31.
And of course those Fire Dept. N.Y. Chiefs were right, with their later on assessments, that WTC7 was in danger of collapse, since from the time of the second tower collapse on, WTC7 was deliberately weakened, step by step during all those hours up to the third, WTC7 collapse.
As shown next in the following 11 points :
It's time that we put this subject of suspected complotted foreknowledge about the coming collapses of WTC2S, WTC1N and WTC7 by FDNY Chiefs and other FDNY staff in the right perspective.
Of course they started to understand from the detailed radio messages from firemen and other sources, shortly before those two first collapses, and all afternoon before WTC7 fell, that these three towers were in danger of collapse.
I can't sweeten up the deal. The evidence however for foul play of OTHERS at an incredible level of compliance, is far too broad.
You probably all keep posting here, since you can't imagine at all, that some (not all) of your most powerful top superiors, such as top level politicians, top Army brass, top level CEO's and top level members of NSA, CIA, DEA, FBI and Police that assisted with the later cover-up, would have planned such a heinous act, that did cost the lives of hundreds of your Brothers and Sisters.
That's why I repeat it one more time :
My consequent 9/11 conspiracy-based posting here was triggered mainly by the stories of the surviving firemen, when the Oral Histories of the Fire Department of New York (FDNY) came out. And stories from others, such as assisting police officers and paramedics.
And it was also firmly triggered by the few recorded telephone calls by Tower workers, and the few radio dispatches recorded clearly enough to hear the last screams of those damned in advance, but so incredibly BRAVE MEN and WOMEN, who ran up all those endless stairs with full heavy gear (most of them), to RESCUE complete strangers to them, in need of a safe way out.
Despite themselves having mothers, wifes, kids, brothers, sisters and other family or friends, waiting for them to return home save again. They took, and still take those same risks again and again, at every call of duty.
Normal people take these kinds of risks only for family and friends, THEY take those risks every damn day that a fire must be fought. To rescue complete strangers to them..!
To all of you : my utmost deep R E S P E C T !
By the way, is it some sort of standard firefighter-speak, for all firefighters posting here under different names, to not include little words like "the" and "a" and a few other small english words? I heard and saw that also a lot in SE and NE Asia.
Most of you do post a lot of true, proven facts, in between the very few completely wrong ones. Please proceed.
And I still hope I can convince and correct you about the few really wrong "facts" you post.
A reply to: TaleDawn
A reply to: hellobruce
A reply to: firerescue
Those Chiefs knew, shortly before both Tower collapses, that something went terribly wrong with these two high-rise buildings.
And especially after the first collapse, the WTC2 South Tower one.
After a NYPD chopper pilot radioed in at 10:20 that WTC1, the North Tower, was now starting to lean, and then suddenly collapsed 8 minutes later at 10:28:31.
And of course those Fire Dept. N.Y. Chiefs were right, with their later on assessments, that WTC7 was in danger of collapse, since from the time of the second tower collapse on, WTC7 was deliberately weakened, step by step during all those hours up to the third, WTC7 collapse.
As shown next in the following 11 points :
[1.] As you can see in this below seismic chart recorded on 9/11/2001 by the LDEO seismic institute from Columbia University, there were before
11:40 a.m. at least three other huge explosive seismic events recorded, AFTER BOTH towers had collapsed already.
I can't find any such 0.6-5Hz filtered, E-W component seismogram for the following hours after the 11:40 a.m. EDT seismic record end time, especially up to the WTC7 collapse at 5:20 p.m., so I can't check for any more seismic evidence for any further explosions.
That missing chart part should trigger your distrust already.
By the way, a logical thinking individual can understand that in a natural induced collapse, a.k.a. the proposed by NIST, buckling of some critically damaged core columns followed by the rest of the remaining core and outer columns ON THAT FLOOR, these immense magnitude peaks will not turn up as SOLE peaks.
Because why don't we see then any more such identical immense peaks for the same failure of all the next core columns under that initiation floor?
In this case, the also buckling and breaking core columns at at least every three floors, which was the height of every one standard length core column : a standard factory delivered length of 3 Twin Tower floor heights.
And the immense magnitude should even increase a bit, since increasingly more mass would impact still intact core columns.
You only see these kind of immense huge seismic amplitude peaks in explosion seismograms, when cutter charges with explosive speeds of 9,000 km/sec have cut columns and those vibrations proceed up and down at speeds of 20,000 m/sec through all that vertical steel into the bedrock, which rocks react with intense vibration waves that propagate at 2 km/sec to the 34 km further located seismographs at Columbia University its LDEO Institute and got recorded there 17 secs later as the famous 9/11 seismograms peaks.
A logical thinking individual also will understand that NATURAL buckling and breaking of a couple of steel columns will occur at a FAR FAR SLOWER rate of speed, than the around 9,000 km/sec explosive cutter charges propagation speeds.
You are getting indoctrinated at every historical-needed disaster by cleverly chosen quasi intellectual "scientists", who offer you "convincing evidence" for the bogus theories handed to them by institutional disaster planners.
files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...
Starting at 11:01 with a smaller explosion, then at 11:15 a huge explosion, and at 11:29 another smaller explosion. One of those three with much more seismic impact than the two plane impacts. And these clearly were not further collapses, as some so desperately want you to believe.
They all 3 show the same seismological signs of a huge explosion, just as in my next seismogram-example that shows the difference between earth movements during a HUGE explosion, and during a natural earthquake of the same magnitude, which naturally induced earth movements also occur during any natural collapse of buildings.
Natural origin ones, we should expect to have been recorded by LDEO on 9/11, from the direction of Manhattan, but only IF those collapses were not caused by human hands which were remotely igniting huge demolition charges.
Since a natural collapse of a steel building is caused by the CHAOTIC (read : comparably slow) failure of one or more critical vertical and/or horizontal thick steel compounds in that building. Specifically, they fail by deformation, which is always several ORDERS of magnitude slower in seismic signals propagation speed than f.ex. a failure caused by an explosive cutter charge cutting a steel column, which results in a significant HUGE, sudden ground-motion peak, followed by much smaller after shocks. As in the above seismic recording of that huge explosion.
LDEO explained in their one week later published seismic reports, that they also recorded many quarry explosions, which were comparable in magnitude with the Tower collapses.
Ask yourself one crucial thing.
Then, why did they never publish those quarry explosions seismograms, so we could compare them with the collapses. And could have seen a significant difference between the Twin Tower collapses and those explosions....if these Tower collapses would have been from natural origins, we would have seen a build-up of mass(ive)-impacts on still standing, but buckling steel constructions, sent as relatively slow vibrations with many comparable amplitudes into the underlying bedrock. And not those two sudden, HUGE AMPLITUDE peaks, followed by the resulting much smaller vibrations of two following, now unavoidable natural collapses.
I can't find any such 0.6-5Hz filtered, E-W component seismogram for the following hours after the 11:40 a.m. EDT seismic record end time, especially up to the WTC7 collapse at 5:20 p.m., so I can't check for any more seismic evidence for any further explosions.
That missing chart part should trigger your distrust already.
By the way, a logical thinking individual can understand that in a natural induced collapse, a.k.a. the proposed by NIST, buckling of some critically damaged core columns followed by the rest of the remaining core and outer columns ON THAT FLOOR, these immense magnitude peaks will not turn up as SOLE peaks.
Because why don't we see then any more such identical immense peaks for the same failure of all the next core columns under that initiation floor?
In this case, the also buckling and breaking core columns at at least every three floors, which was the height of every one standard length core column : a standard factory delivered length of 3 Twin Tower floor heights.
And the immense magnitude should even increase a bit, since increasingly more mass would impact still intact core columns.
You only see these kind of immense huge seismic amplitude peaks in explosion seismograms, when cutter charges with explosive speeds of 9,000 km/sec have cut columns and those vibrations proceed up and down at speeds of 20,000 m/sec through all that vertical steel into the bedrock, which rocks react with intense vibration waves that propagate at 2 km/sec to the 34 km further located seismographs at Columbia University its LDEO Institute and got recorded there 17 secs later as the famous 9/11 seismograms peaks.
A logical thinking individual also will understand that NATURAL buckling and breaking of a couple of steel columns will occur at a FAR FAR SLOWER rate of speed, than the around 9,000 km/sec explosive cutter charges propagation speeds.
You are getting indoctrinated at every historical-needed disaster by cleverly chosen quasi intellectual "scientists", who offer you "convincing evidence" for the bogus theories handed to them by institutional disaster planners.
files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...
Starting at 11:01 with a smaller explosion, then at 11:15 a huge explosion, and at 11:29 another smaller explosion. One of those three with much more seismic impact than the two plane impacts. And these clearly were not further collapses, as some so desperately want you to believe.
They all 3 show the same seismological signs of a huge explosion, just as in my next seismogram-example that shows the difference between earth movements during a HUGE explosion, and during a natural earthquake of the same magnitude, which naturally induced earth movements also occur during any natural collapse of buildings.
Natural origin ones, we should expect to have been recorded by LDEO on 9/11, from the direction of Manhattan, but only IF those collapses were not caused by human hands which were remotely igniting huge demolition charges.
Since a natural collapse of a steel building is caused by the CHAOTIC (read : comparably slow) failure of one or more critical vertical and/or horizontal thick steel compounds in that building. Specifically, they fail by deformation, which is always several ORDERS of magnitude slower in seismic signals propagation speed than f.ex. a failure caused by an explosive cutter charge cutting a steel column, which results in a significant HUGE, sudden ground-motion peak, followed by much smaller after shocks. As in the above seismic recording of that huge explosion.
LDEO explained in their one week later published seismic reports, that they also recorded many quarry explosions, which were comparable in magnitude with the Tower collapses.
Ask yourself one crucial thing.
Then, why did they never publish those quarry explosions seismograms, so we could compare them with the collapses. And could have seen a significant difference between the Twin Tower collapses and those explosions....if these Tower collapses would have been from natural origins, we would have seen a build-up of mass(ive)-impacts on still standing, but buckling steel constructions, sent as relatively slow vibrations with many comparable amplitudes into the underlying bedrock. And not those two sudden, HUGE AMPLITUDE peaks, followed by the resulting much smaller vibrations of two following, now unavoidable natural collapses.
[2.] We thus may expect that in our conspiracy scenario, these explosions were planned or executed in panic, to weaken WTC 7.
Watch, and LISTEN carefully to the clearly audible explosions in this video, with good earphones (not the crappy few dollar ones), or good audio equipment :
youtu.be...
"9/11: South Tower Collapse video compilation", by Nathan Flach (8:46 min long), 9 Nov. 2008, 1.249.198 views :
www.youtube.com...
or
www.youtube.com...
or
youtu.be...
Just try clicking one of my two other YT- links, those work. Since that video really does EXIST on YouTube, but there's some software glitch. Note also his list of "Recommended 9/11 research" websites.
Listen to the few shots that have the collapse sounds in them...4:15 is a good starting point to listen to.
At 4:19 the explosive cadence starts in the South Tower.
Try from 6:28 on, too. The Trinity Church video of the South Tower collapse initiation.
7:47 is also a very distinct explosive cadence in the WTC2S collapse...that's btw the "WTC2S tower collapse with the running camera man" one.
8:24 to the end of this video is a good one too.
All those sounds definitely sound like a row of explosions, especially since we know by now, that the pancaking theory was declared bogus by NIST themselves, and by heaps of structural engineers, all to be found online. Read my posts from the last few months and you will find all those links.
And Charles M. Beck put the icing on the cake with his three thesis, in which he mathematically proved, based on NIST's own structural data, that those towers could have never ever collapsed naturally. Only with some help by human hands would all that 3 to 5 times too strong vertical steel ever buckle.
He even went as far as removing from his calculations, half of all the vertical AND horizontal steel, and on top of that, half of the remaining vertical AND horizontal steel-strength.
And still those towers would have stood there, till today, as his calcs proved.
So not only the few vertical steel columns that were hypothetically cut or damaged in the NIST calculations, NO, he removed 50 % of all facade steel columns, and 50 % of all core steel columns. AND 50 % of all the horizontal steel too.
And to top it off, he then also took 50 % off from the original steel-strength from all those leftover columns and floor steel parts (from half of the original amount of columns and floor parts, now left over in his calculations).
It's indicative of the media techniques present in the whole western world, that not one "investigative" media program dares to take up the challenge, and tries to discredit his calculations. Since they are ordered to keep their mouths shut, "they" (the real media paymasters) don't want any attention drawn to Beck's, so damning to the NIST reports, outcomes.
His three thesis. They must be drowned in a deafening silence.
Look up my many posts about Charles M. Beck (Search ATS : LaBTop Beck ), or read or search in my 5 Signature links, and you will find his three mathematical engineering thesis links.
"The sound of the Twin Tower collapses", video by Einsteen (3:14 min long) :
www.youtube.com...
And don't forget also, that sound travels at 333 m/sec, so it took about 1.5 secs to reach the camera microphone. From the height of the collapse initiations.
And you must add the horizontal distance to the towers too, and then calculate the resulting hypotenuse length from that camera position angle. Which results in some additional tenths of seconds.
Then it seems that the sound came first, then collapse followed.
Since your eyes see in real time, while your ears must wait until the sound arrives.
Watch, and LISTEN carefully to the clearly audible explosions in this video, with good earphones (not the crappy few dollar ones), or good audio equipment :
youtu.be...
"9/11: South Tower Collapse video compilation", by Nathan Flach (8:46 min long), 9 Nov. 2008, 1.249.198 views :
www.youtube.com...
or
www.youtube.com...
or
youtu.be...
Compilation of WTC South Tower collapse video clips taken from every direction, with some cropping and stabilization.
Just try clicking one of my two other YT- links, those work. Since that video really does EXIST on YouTube, but there's some software glitch. Note also his list of "Recommended 9/11 research" websites.
Listen to the few shots that have the collapse sounds in them...4:15 is a good starting point to listen to.
At 4:19 the explosive cadence starts in the South Tower.
Try from 6:28 on, too. The Trinity Church video of the South Tower collapse initiation.
7:47 is also a very distinct explosive cadence in the WTC2S collapse...that's btw the "WTC2S tower collapse with the running camera man" one.
8:24 to the end of this video is a good one too.
All those sounds definitely sound like a row of explosions, especially since we know by now, that the pancaking theory was declared bogus by NIST themselves, and by heaps of structural engineers, all to be found online. Read my posts from the last few months and you will find all those links.
And Charles M. Beck put the icing on the cake with his three thesis, in which he mathematically proved, based on NIST's own structural data, that those towers could have never ever collapsed naturally. Only with some help by human hands would all that 3 to 5 times too strong vertical steel ever buckle.
He even went as far as removing from his calculations, half of all the vertical AND horizontal steel, and on top of that, half of the remaining vertical AND horizontal steel-strength.
And still those towers would have stood there, till today, as his calcs proved.
So not only the few vertical steel columns that were hypothetically cut or damaged in the NIST calculations, NO, he removed 50 % of all facade steel columns, and 50 % of all core steel columns. AND 50 % of all the horizontal steel too.
And to top it off, he then also took 50 % off from the original steel-strength from all those leftover columns and floor steel parts (from half of the original amount of columns and floor parts, now left over in his calculations).
It's indicative of the media techniques present in the whole western world, that not one "investigative" media program dares to take up the challenge, and tries to discredit his calculations. Since they are ordered to keep their mouths shut, "they" (the real media paymasters) don't want any attention drawn to Beck's, so damning to the NIST reports, outcomes.
His three thesis. They must be drowned in a deafening silence.
Look up my many posts about Charles M. Beck (Search ATS : LaBTop Beck ), or read or search in my 5 Signature links, and you will find his three mathematical engineering thesis links.
"The sound of the Twin Tower collapses", video by Einsteen (3:14 min long) :
www.youtube.com...
30 dec. 2007
einsteen : Sorry for the lost comments, I had to edit the video because Discovery added something in the beginning, that has been stripped away now.
Some people mention the silence of the Twin Tower collapse. These sound samples are genuine as far as I know. Notice that in the videos that contain the initiation moment, the rumbling sound is already there, even when there is barely motion.
And don't forget also, that sound travels at 333 m/sec, so it took about 1.5 secs to reach the camera microphone. From the height of the collapse initiations.
And you must add the horizontal distance to the towers too, and then calculate the resulting hypotenuse length from that camera position angle. Which results in some additional tenths of seconds.
Then it seems that the sound came first, then collapse followed.
Since your eyes see in real time, while your ears must wait until the sound arrives.
edit on 9/4/16 by LaBTop because: The first video does not exist. It does exist however! CLICK the other YT links.!
[3.] There was no excessive failure over more than ten floors high at the southwest corner of WTC7, as NIST kept hammering on for at least the
first several years.
Which wrong NIST-theory lasted until just after a FOIA request was at last court-ordered to NIST, for handing over by NIST to Judicial Watch of all the thousands, by NIST till then kept-secret pictures and videos from the day of 9/11.
Those were all collected by several official institutions during the first patriotic frenzy months after 9/11, and also from the public and the main stream media, by the FBI, FEMA, ASCE, the 9/11 Commission, NIST, etc.
After at last able to study those thousands of pictures and videos, a few new WTC7 southwest corner ones were discovered, taken from the same NYPD helicopter, showing much clearer details from that southwest corner. It showed conclusively that the only picture from that helicopter ever publicized by NIST up to then, was a cleverly chosen one, that gave the impression that the damage to that corner was much deeper and much higher than in reality was the case.
This was caused by a faint smoke column (perhaps inserted?) which looked as a deep gash in that southwest corner. However, the other three photos from that chopper showed only some superficial damage to the 10th to 14th floors of about 3 to 4 southwest outer corner rooms. Which could have never ever been the sole cause for the later collapse, any engineer with extensive high rise construction experience can tell you that.
The original, NIST-Report photo of the southwest corner damage, still masked by dark smoke streams, giving the impression of a much deeper gash :
www.wtc7.net...
The two additional, FOIA-freed, extra photos from the NYPD Helicopters :
NYPD 10 Helicopter photos.
View in the above PDF, photos 8 and 9, there you see already that it is mostly smoke that looks as if a WTC7 SW-corner piece is chopped out. In fact, the damage was much more superficial and not further than half the depth of one corner room. It's about the same superficial damage as seen in photo 10, only a few floors more, about 10 floors high.
Ask yourselves, why there was so early already, that thick black smoke coming from the 6th to 8th floors their NW corner windows. While contemplating again on the explosion in the 6th floor NE stairwell, near to column 79 (the by NIST declared collapse initiating one), as reported by Barry Jennings and Michael Hess in their street interviews around 9/11 noon. Barry years later said both Towers were still standing. But you can hear an edit switch just before he said that, in his much later recorded interview by Loose Change. So I can't rely on that one.
However, when we count back from their 9/11/2001 media interviews, where Hess said, just before 12 o'clock in front of City Hall, where he got interviewed, that they were trapped at the 8th floor of WTC7 for more than one and a half hour, after the explosion in that 6th floor stairwell landing, and we count their spent time in the OEM floors trying to phone for information, and their descent from the 24th floor in a pitch dark NE stairwell to the 6th floor, we arrive at a time at least before the 10:28:31 North Tower collapse. But more likely just before the 09:59:04 South Tower collapse too. Because we need to take in account also their eventual at last assisted descent in WTC7 with the help of that firemen group, and Hess his walk to City Hall, 4 blocks away, where he got interviewed at 11:57 a.m. by that reporter on a hand phone or normal phone, which was connected to his News network studio, who aired it then just before noon as a phone interview with City Counselor Michael Hess. See for that one my later post
As you can see in the first three photos of that above linked to PDF page, they also have those mysterious long dark sharp-edged vertical bands showing in the left portion of those photos, just as in the video from a News chopper shot from much further away, that also has the mysterious vertical dark "gash" band showing on the south face of WTC7. But there we can see smoke in front of that gash turning up. I still have no explanation for the very sharp edges of that gash in the south facade of WTC7.
I'm still not sure if it really is a gash and not some strange camera glitch or other optical rarity, just as in these three first photos from the 10 photos from that NYPD chopper.
Which wrong NIST-theory lasted until just after a FOIA request was at last court-ordered to NIST, for handing over by NIST to Judicial Watch of all the thousands, by NIST till then kept-secret pictures and videos from the day of 9/11.
Those were all collected by several official institutions during the first patriotic frenzy months after 9/11, and also from the public and the main stream media, by the FBI, FEMA, ASCE, the 9/11 Commission, NIST, etc.
After at last able to study those thousands of pictures and videos, a few new WTC7 southwest corner ones were discovered, taken from the same NYPD helicopter, showing much clearer details from that southwest corner. It showed conclusively that the only picture from that helicopter ever publicized by NIST up to then, was a cleverly chosen one, that gave the impression that the damage to that corner was much deeper and much higher than in reality was the case.
This was caused by a faint smoke column (perhaps inserted?) which looked as a deep gash in that southwest corner. However, the other three photos from that chopper showed only some superficial damage to the 10th to 14th floors of about 3 to 4 southwest outer corner rooms. Which could have never ever been the sole cause for the later collapse, any engineer with extensive high rise construction experience can tell you that.
The original, NIST-Report photo of the southwest corner damage, still masked by dark smoke streams, giving the impression of a much deeper gash :
www.wtc7.net...
The two additional, FOIA-freed, extra photos from the NYPD Helicopters :
NYPD 10 Helicopter photos.
View in the above PDF, photos 8 and 9, there you see already that it is mostly smoke that looks as if a WTC7 SW-corner piece is chopped out. In fact, the damage was much more superficial and not further than half the depth of one corner room. It's about the same superficial damage as seen in photo 10, only a few floors more, about 10 floors high.
Ask yourselves, why there was so early already, that thick black smoke coming from the 6th to 8th floors their NW corner windows. While contemplating again on the explosion in the 6th floor NE stairwell, near to column 79 (the by NIST declared collapse initiating one), as reported by Barry Jennings and Michael Hess in their street interviews around 9/11 noon. Barry years later said both Towers were still standing. But you can hear an edit switch just before he said that, in his much later recorded interview by Loose Change. So I can't rely on that one.
However, when we count back from their 9/11/2001 media interviews, where Hess said, just before 12 o'clock in front of City Hall, where he got interviewed, that they were trapped at the 8th floor of WTC7 for more than one and a half hour, after the explosion in that 6th floor stairwell landing, and we count their spent time in the OEM floors trying to phone for information, and their descent from the 24th floor in a pitch dark NE stairwell to the 6th floor, we arrive at a time at least before the 10:28:31 North Tower collapse. But more likely just before the 09:59:04 South Tower collapse too. Because we need to take in account also their eventual at last assisted descent in WTC7 with the help of that firemen group, and Hess his walk to City Hall, 4 blocks away, where he got interviewed at 11:57 a.m. by that reporter on a hand phone or normal phone, which was connected to his News network studio, who aired it then just before noon as a phone interview with City Counselor Michael Hess. See for that one my later post
As you can see in the first three photos of that above linked to PDF page, they also have those mysterious long dark sharp-edged vertical bands showing in the left portion of those photos, just as in the video from a News chopper shot from much further away, that also has the mysterious vertical dark "gash" band showing on the south face of WTC7. But there we can see smoke in front of that gash turning up. I still have no explanation for the very sharp edges of that gash in the south facade of WTC7.
I'm still not sure if it really is a gash and not some strange camera glitch or other optical rarity, just as in these three first photos from the 10 photos from that NYPD chopper.
Matt at 911conspiracyTV made it into his personal quest finding the missing chopper photos of that WTC7 SW corner damage, which show the real, small
damage :
Case of the Missing NYPD Helicopter Photos.
And then there's this in his #12 :
This is the HUGE repository list of 9/11 photos and videos at 911datasets.org .
Open them with f.ex. micro-torrent, or any other torrent reader, and then you can open them as TIFs or JPEGs.
They probably have the multiple NYPD chopper photos of that SW-corner damage in one of these :
NIST WTC7 FOIA 09-49
NIST WTC7 FOIA 11-209
NIST WTC7 FOIA 12-009
[4.] There was one gas bottles shack or gas-line access shack explosion video-filmed at the end of 2015, found by ATS-member waypastvne, in the center of that huge sandy parking lot to the west side of West street, the Verizon building and the North Tower. He also found a reasonable time stamp for it, and there is no ground shaking explosion recorded by LDEO in the above by me posted LDEO-seismogram, after 12 o'clock. That gas explosion was after 12 o'clock, if I remember correctly. And witnesses in videos of explosions never turned their heads suddenly west to that gas explosion spot, but always east to WTC 7, or its streets leading to it.
VIDEO can be found in one of my last months threads, posted by waypastvne.
Case of the Missing NYPD Helicopter Photos.
And then there's this in his #12 :
Maybe the team was honestly scared of being forced to tell the truth. Read a famed quote (among truthers) from the ABC Primetime segment by NYPD Lt. Glenn Daley:
“There were numerous secondary explosions taking place in that building. There was– There were continuous explosions.”
This is the HUGE repository list of 9/11 photos and videos at 911datasets.org .
Open them with f.ex. micro-torrent, or any other torrent reader, and then you can open them as TIFs or JPEGs.
They probably have the multiple NYPD chopper photos of that SW-corner damage in one of these :
NIST WTC7 FOIA 09-49
NIST WTC7 FOIA 11-209
NIST WTC7 FOIA 12-009
[4.] There was one gas bottles shack or gas-line access shack explosion video-filmed at the end of 2015, found by ATS-member waypastvne, in the center of that huge sandy parking lot to the west side of West street, the Verizon building and the North Tower. He also found a reasonable time stamp for it, and there is no ground shaking explosion recorded by LDEO in the above by me posted LDEO-seismogram, after 12 o'clock. That gas explosion was after 12 o'clock, if I remember correctly. And witnesses in videos of explosions never turned their heads suddenly west to that gas explosion spot, but always east to WTC 7, or its streets leading to it.
VIDEO can be found in one of my last months threads, posted by waypastvne.
[5.] The famous phone boot explosion, see my full thread about its 10:10 to 10:20 time-stamp
here, titled :
""WTC7 phone boot explosion sound pinned to corner Murray Str-W.Broadway, 2 blocks from WTC7.""
Start reading this post first on page 5, then read all the other following posts on page 5 by me.
And note its sharp, high pitched cutter charge sound, which clearly came from the direction of WTC7.
This is the excellent thread with all the precise details (7 VERY interesting pages), which triggered my attention in Dec. 2009 :
s1.zetaboards.com...
I can't view their posted pictures in high enough resolution, one of you perhaps?
Or were they originally sharper, but now softened? I really can't see any of what they hint at, to me it looks like a certain watch at that time, with a sort of protective "bridge" over its glass. I also don't know if it was analogue or digital.
So i.m.h.op., that wrist watch time is not set in stone.
Page 2 :Broken sticks posted then the sun position calculator results for New York on 9/11/2001 from the Naval Observatory website, which he got from an Italian debunker website.
So there's this phone boot explosion around 10:10 to 10:20 coming from the direction of the WTC7 building. (WTC2S is down but WTC1N's still standing thus).
Which explosion is thus at that time not significantly recorded in the above LDEO seismogram from the morning of 9/11/2001.
Then there is however still that other huge explosion, being one of the three, relatively to the Twin Tower ones, smaller further explosions, indeed recorded by LDEO in their 9/11 seismogram, posted by me above under [1.]
Which huge further one occurred at 11:15, long after the immense explosions at 09:59:04 and 10:28:31 that collapsed both the Twin Towers.
And note also the two smaller, other seismically registered ones. One 15 minutes before and one 15 minutes after that huge 11:15 one.
You can hear all of the explosions, later than the WTC1N collapse one, go off in my linked-to video in [2.]
""WTC7 phone boot explosion sound pinned to corner Murray Str-W.Broadway, 2 blocks from WTC7.""
Start reading this post first on page 5, then read all the other following posts on page 5 by me.
And note its sharp, high pitched cutter charge sound, which clearly came from the direction of WTC7.
This is the excellent thread with all the precise details (7 VERY interesting pages), which triggered my attention in Dec. 2009 :
s1.zetaboards.com...
Page 1, achimspok, Dec 17 2009 : There was that strange pressure pulse inside WTC1 at 10:18.
Page 2 : femr2 enhanced it a little more and I separated the grays of the scale. (LT : the wrist watch)
Hmm, it looks like bright/white indicators for day and date and a little darker (maybe silver) pointers.
At least it looks shocking close to 10:18 and the strange pressure pulse.
Dec 18 : Another interesting thing: 2 minutes later (10:20) ABC reports that the (LT: WTC1N) SW corner is buckling, they start to draw back all personnel because of a possible second collapse. (LT : Of WTC1N)
I can't view their posted pictures in high enough resolution, one of you perhaps?
Or were they originally sharper, but now softened? I really can't see any of what they hint at, to me it looks like a certain watch at that time, with a sort of protective "bridge" over its glass. I also don't know if it was analogue or digital.
So i.m.h.op., that wrist watch time is not set in stone.
Page 2 :Broken sticks posted then the sun position calculator results for New York on 9/11/2001 from the Naval Observatory website, which he got from an Italian debunker website.
So there's this phone boot explosion around 10:10 to 10:20 coming from the direction of the WTC7 building. (WTC2S is down but WTC1N's still standing thus).
Which explosion is thus at that time not significantly recorded in the above LDEO seismogram from the morning of 9/11/2001.
Then there is however still that other huge explosion, being one of the three, relatively to the Twin Tower ones, smaller further explosions, indeed recorded by LDEO in their 9/11 seismogram, posted by me above under [1.]
Which huge further one occurred at 11:15, long after the immense explosions at 09:59:04 and 10:28:31 that collapsed both the Twin Towers.
And note also the two smaller, other seismically registered ones. One 15 minutes before and one 15 minutes after that huge 11:15 one.
You can hear all of the explosions, later than the WTC1N collapse one, go off in my linked-to video in [2.]
[6.] The video where we see City Counselor Michael Hess leaning out of
the 8th NE corner floor window, its glass broken just minutes before by Barry Jennings, with a heavy steel fire extinguisher bottle. While Hess
shouts down for help to some firefighters in a dusty Barclay Street
It proves that both men could not descend the northeast stairwell of WTC7 any further than the 8th floor, since its lower portion was blown up some time just before, or in between the first and second collapse, as BOTH men recollected in their, a few hours later recorded, media interviews.
0:00 / 1:41 The Michael Hess (WTC7 explosion witness) interview by Frank Ucciardo at 11:57 a.m. on 9/11/2001 in front of City Hall, which was 4 to 5 blocks away from WTC7 :
www.youtube.com...
And what a coincidence! That's the stairwell, near to that famous column 79 that NIST indicated as the main failing one in their explanation of the by them suspected reason why WTC7 collapsed.
Which explanation is simply put, a fabrication.
It looks damn sure as if that column 79 was already at around 10:10 to 10:20 cut at multiple points to weaken WTC7. The explosion that blew Barry Jennings and City Corporation Counselor Michael Hess up that stairwell landing from the 7th onto the 8th floor. See my point [5.]
Schematic of the 8th floor in WTC7 on 9/11/2001. The right stair is where both men were in, and the most right-up red circle is column 79 :
Small :
Bigger :
The not so deep damage to the SW corner of WTC7 discussion with lots of links is posted HERE.
And read this next long and very detailed page from the Institute for the Study of Globalization and Covert Politics (ISGP) by Joel van der Reijden,
IT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING YOU MIGHT HAD DOUBTS ABOUT, especially much of the Hess and Jennings cases from above :
New WTC 7 Findings: NIST criminally manipulated computer input data; explosions and extreme heat ignored; key videos cut short.
I'm not so sure about the time frames as can be deducted from the words by Hess and Jennings from their earliest interviews on 9/11, it seems to me that when we count back from the time of the first Hess interview at 11:57 a.m., that Jennings timings could be quite right at all. And thus also his remarked arrival time at WTC7 of around 9 o'clock a.m. on 9/11.
Which Joel van der Reijden seems to doubt.
I have now provided him with a somewhat preciser time-frame for both men's interviews. That should start him doubting again his placement in time of the explosion in the stairwell as reported by both men, as around the WTC1N tower collapse.
It must have been much earlier.
It proves that both men could not descend the northeast stairwell of WTC7 any further than the 8th floor, since its lower portion was blown up some time just before, or in between the first and second collapse, as BOTH men recollected in their, a few hours later recorded, media interviews.
0:00 / 1:41 The Michael Hess (WTC7 explosion witness) interview by Frank Ucciardo at 11:57 a.m. on 9/11/2001 in front of City Hall, which was 4 to 5 blocks away from WTC7 :
www.youtube.com...
And what a coincidence! That's the stairwell, near to that famous column 79 that NIST indicated as the main failing one in their explanation of the by them suspected reason why WTC7 collapsed.
Which explanation is simply put, a fabrication.
It looks damn sure as if that column 79 was already at around 10:10 to 10:20 cut at multiple points to weaken WTC7. The explosion that blew Barry Jennings and City Corporation Counselor Michael Hess up that stairwell landing from the 7th onto the 8th floor. See my point [5.]
Schematic of the 8th floor in WTC7 on 9/11/2001. The right stair is where both men were in, and the most right-up red circle is column 79 :
Small :
Bigger :
The not so deep damage to the SW corner of WTC7 discussion with lots of links is posted HERE.
And read this next long and very detailed page from the Institute for the Study of Globalization and Covert Politics (ISGP) by Joel van der Reijden,
IT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING YOU MIGHT HAD DOUBTS ABOUT, especially much of the Hess and Jennings cases from above :
New WTC 7 Findings: NIST criminally manipulated computer input data; explosions and extreme heat ignored; key videos cut short.
I'm not so sure about the time frames as can be deducted from the words by Hess and Jennings from their earliest interviews on 9/11, it seems to me that when we count back from the time of the first Hess interview at 11:57 a.m., that Jennings timings could be quite right at all. And thus also his remarked arrival time at WTC7 of around 9 o'clock a.m. on 9/11.
Which Joel van der Reijden seems to doubt.
I have now provided him with a somewhat preciser time-frame for both men's interviews. That should start him doubting again his placement in time of the explosion in the stairwell as reported by both men, as around the WTC1N tower collapse.
It must have been much earlier.
[7.] The WWOR-TV interview broadcast as a telephone interview by Frank Ucciardo, with Michael
Hess on Broadway, in front of City Hall at 11:57 a.m. on 9/11/2001 :
So that's how MANY, MANY minutes for Hess and Jennings after arrival at WTC7 at around 9 o'clock (not definitively timed yet), to first go up to the 23rd and 24th OEM floors, find the doors locked, go down by the same public elevator to the lobby, find a security guard, go up by the freight elevator with him to the 23rd floor again, where he unlocked that door to the empty OEM for them, then walk around there, place some phone calls and in the last one were ordered to get the heck out. (By whom? )
Then they tried the same elevator, but that wouldn't work anymore, and decided to walk down. At that moment all the power went out in there, no lights, and they stumbled down to the 7th floor, where a huge explosion threw Jennings up, hanging on the handrail of the 7th floor landing, that explosion thus blocked their escape route down via the NE stairwell, so they went back up to the 8th floor its far northeastern window, where Jennings broke the corner window with a fire extinguisher, and Hess yelled for help down to some firefighters there, who tried to locate them, but were forced by the first WTC2S collapse at 09:59:04 a.m. to run away, then this same group came back to yell to Hess again that they were going to rescue them, then the second WTC1N collapse happened 29 minutes later at 10:28:31 and forced these firemen for the second time to flee but now for their life, then they came back again later and together with another group of firefighters, they at last reached Hess and Jennings in that far eastern corner of floor 8. They brought them down through a demolished building to the Vesey Street lobby area (not the Plaza lobby area, which was then totally wrecked and not on street level), out on Vesey Street, where their paths split.
Hess walked? to City Hall and got interviewed at 11:57 a.m., while Jennings walked with the small fireman in the direction of Chambers Street, where he got interviewed by another reporter at 12:32 p.m. on 9/11/2001.
Guess how long this all would take? Going up to the 23rd floor, down to the lobby, up again to the 23rd floor, walk around there, down again by foot to the 7th floor, and including the 1.5 hrs they were stuck at the 8th floor NE corner? Then walk down again from the 8th floor through a demolished building, pass the lobby, walk from Vesey to City Hall?
Be honest, would that be more or less than, or equal to 11:57 a.m. MINUS the 90 minutes (1.5 hr) stuck at the 8th floor time, as remembered by Hess, which brings us at 10:27 a.m.
Of course that took many more minutes extra time on top of those 90 minutes these two men were stuck at that 8th floor corner.
And for sure he will have looked on his wristwatch from time to time. So I take his 90 minutes stuck up time there in that 8th floor corner, really serious.
You should do that too.
0:34/1:54 Hess : I was up in the Emergency Management Center on the 23rd floor, and when all the power went out in the building another gentleman and I walked down to the eighth floor where there was an EXPLOSION and we've been trapped on the eighth floor when there was smoke, thick smoke around us for about an hour and a half, but the FDNY, as terrific as they are, came, and just got us out.
So that's how MANY, MANY minutes for Hess and Jennings after arrival at WTC7 at around 9 o'clock (not definitively timed yet), to first go up to the 23rd and 24th OEM floors, find the doors locked, go down by the same public elevator to the lobby, find a security guard, go up by the freight elevator with him to the 23rd floor again, where he unlocked that door to the empty OEM for them, then walk around there, place some phone calls and in the last one were ordered to get the heck out. (By whom? )
Then they tried the same elevator, but that wouldn't work anymore, and decided to walk down. At that moment all the power went out in there, no lights, and they stumbled down to the 7th floor, where a huge explosion threw Jennings up, hanging on the handrail of the 7th floor landing, that explosion thus blocked their escape route down via the NE stairwell, so they went back up to the 8th floor its far northeastern window, where Jennings broke the corner window with a fire extinguisher, and Hess yelled for help down to some firefighters there, who tried to locate them, but were forced by the first WTC2S collapse at 09:59:04 a.m. to run away, then this same group came back to yell to Hess again that they were going to rescue them, then the second WTC1N collapse happened 29 minutes later at 10:28:31 and forced these firemen for the second time to flee but now for their life, then they came back again later and together with another group of firefighters, they at last reached Hess and Jennings in that far eastern corner of floor 8. They brought them down through a demolished building to the Vesey Street lobby area (not the Plaza lobby area, which was then totally wrecked and not on street level), out on Vesey Street, where their paths split.
Hess walked? to City Hall and got interviewed at 11:57 a.m., while Jennings walked with the small fireman in the direction of Chambers Street, where he got interviewed by another reporter at 12:32 p.m. on 9/11/2001.
Guess how long this all would take? Going up to the 23rd floor, down to the lobby, up again to the 23rd floor, walk around there, down again by foot to the 7th floor, and including the 1.5 hrs they were stuck at the 8th floor NE corner? Then walk down again from the 8th floor through a demolished building, pass the lobby, walk from Vesey to City Hall?
Be honest, would that be more or less than, or equal to 11:57 a.m. MINUS the 90 minutes (1.5 hr) stuck at the 8th floor time, as remembered by Hess, which brings us at 10:27 a.m.
Of course that took many more minutes extra time on top of those 90 minutes these two men were stuck at that 8th floor corner.
And for sure he will have looked on his wristwatch from time to time. So I take his 90 minutes stuck up time there in that 8th floor corner, really serious.
You should do that too.
And this is the UNCUT 12:32 p.m.WABC-TV interview on Chambers street with Barry Jennings on
9/11/2001, also posted on YouTube by Nathan Flach (see his long Recommended 9/11 Research links list in the Hess and Jennings video comments
section, and ALL his other YT posted videos, he's one of the few really best 9/11 posters there) :
Have a good look at the WTC7 its 5th to 8th floors and higher floorplans, and you see that both of those ONLY stairwells in the whole building were situated deep in the northern part of the building, where no WTC1N debris has ever ended up. So that non existing debris could have never ever "blown up" that northeastern stairwell's 6th and lower stairs from under both men their feet in that early stage.
Thus Hess and Jennings were rescued on the 8th floor northwestern corner, by that two times returning, brave firefighter group, that then lead them outside, first down to the Vesey St WTC7 lobby, then onto Vesey street and then Hess got interviewed at least 10 minutes but probably quite later, near City Hall, which is about a four city blocks walk in dust and debris, away from the WTC7 lobby entrance on Vesey street.
At 1:00 to 1:24/2:25 into the video the small firefighter says : Both staircases on the back side were completely BLOWN away, we couldn't get to them. But finally one of the firefighter teams found them.
Have a good look at the WTC7 its 5th to 8th floors and higher floorplans, and you see that both of those ONLY stairwells in the whole building were situated deep in the northern part of the building, where no WTC1N debris has ever ended up. So that non existing debris could have never ever "blown up" that northeastern stairwell's 6th and lower stairs from under both men their feet in that early stage.
Thus Hess and Jennings were rescued on the 8th floor northwestern corner, by that two times returning, brave firefighter group, that then lead them outside, first down to the Vesey St WTC7 lobby, then onto Vesey street and then Hess got interviewed at least 10 minutes but probably quite later, near City Hall, which is about a four city blocks walk in dust and debris, away from the WTC7 lobby entrance on Vesey street.
Now realize yourself that City Corporation Counselor Michael Hess said in his 11:57 a.m. interview with Frank Ucciardo on Broadway in front of City
Hall, that they were trapped for one and a half hours, which is thus AFTER that northeastern stairwell explosion they encountered in WTC7.
At face value, that's then after the first tower collapse, but just before OR around the second tower collapse, when you start counting back from his 11:57 a.m. interview time. BUT, realize too that he for sure needed quite some extra time to be brought down and walk all the three to four city blocks from Vesey Street to City Hall where he got interviewed on Broadway.
Thus, that explosion must have happened quite some time BEFORE the second collapse, the 10:28 a.m. WTC1N one....
And everybody understands after viewing videos of the much nearer North Tower collapse, that the first, 09:59 South Tower collapse from 29 minutes earlier, could have never launched its heavy debris that much further away into the NE part of WTC7 to damage that NE stairwell both men were in, at that time.
So at last, thanks to Nathan Flach, we have a cross check on the time frames of the 9/11 Hess and Jennings interviews, which places the stairwell EXPLOSION (which word BOTH men used in their 9/11 interviews) at a fairly long time before the North Tower collapse.
Thus, we may conclude that some nefarious group of people were already preparing WTC7 for demolition, that early already.
Now it gets more and more suspicious that Mayor Giuliani and his assistant ordered the 23rd and 24th floor OEM offices to be abandoned so early in time already. In fact BEFORE both men reached that floor by a still, at that time, working freight elevator. Because the normal elevator they used so early already brought them to OEM's already locked doors on the 23rd floor, so they had to go down again. Which first attempt by them to enter the 23rd floor must have been between 8:55 and 9:10, when we believe the arrival time Barry mentioned in later interviews with Loose Change and BBC crews.
Ask yourself also how all those OEM workers got down so fast then, without both men mentioning a very crowdy evacuation situation?
That damn early OEM evacuation must have been completed just before both men's arrival time.
Thus note that Jennings told us in later years that he arrived at WTC7 around 9 o'clock already, just 10 or 15 minutes most, after the first airplane hit the North Tower....and the second plane hit the South Tower at 9:02:54...
Then he needed some time together with Hess to find the officer who helped them to get up with the freight elevator to that 23rd floor OEM office, so let's assume he arrived in OEM around 9:30 at the latest.
Probably earlier, which means that the order to vacate the OEM offices must have been given at a CRAZY, NONLOGICAL for the official story, FAR TOO EARLY time. Even in the minute the first plane hit.
Since Jennings and Hess both said they did not encounter masses of people leaving that building when they arrived there, just a few security officers walking around in the lobby area.
Which thus means that the OEM evacuation was already completed AT LEAST between 08:46:26 and 09:00 a.m., when Jennings and Hess arrived in the WTC7 lobby in Vesey street.
I suppose no OS story follower will sleep calm anymore after contemplating on these time-frames that are so different from the NIST ones.
Realize also that both men left the OEM offices quite some time after they made both some phone calls and were ordered out there. And then the lights went out in that stairwell, so descending did not go as fast as would be done in a fully lit stairwell.
Thus, you have to count-up extra minutes, from their +/- 09:00 a.m. WTC7 lobby arrival time, up to the time they BOTH mentioned a huge explosion inside WTC7, which demolished the northeastern stairwell part under the 7th floor portion, and they were blown upwards to the 7th floor landing. Jennings was bungling with his hands to the handrail and could barely reach that upper landing on the 7th floor. Then they had no other choice than to climb to the 8th floor.
Years later, after Michael Hess became a partner in former Mayor Giuliani's law firm, Michael Hess retracted his remark about that huge explosion and made it seem as if he now believed that the implosion of that NE stairwell was caused by debris entering the NE part of WTC7 from the collapsing North Tower at 10:28. His own "1.5 hour stuck there" remark in his 11:59 a.m. 9/11 interview makes that impossible, since you have to add quite some time for him and Jennings to get out of WTC7 and get to City Hall where he got interviewed.
He is for sure a realist who knows when to follow the "party line". And also a clear liar.
That stairwell was so deep inside the FAR northeast side of WTC7, not any heavy piece of debris from one of the Twin Towers can have ever reached that deep into WTC7, without every fireman walking inside WTC7 afterwards to rescue both men, wouldn't have noticed such a huge chunk taken out of that far northern corner part of WTC7, all the way back to the daylight at the southern facade part. That should have been such a huge gash in that eastern south facade that every New Yorker walking around there on 9/11 would have talked about that for a long time afterwards.
Or any one watching WTC7 from Vesey Street wouldn't have noticed a huge, DEEP gash in the eastern SOUTHEAST facade its corner portion. The Steve Spak pictures also don't show any damage in that part of the southern facade.
That small firefighter only mentioned that both staircases were blown up, not the rest of the building in front of the stairs, towards the south facade side.
At face value, that's then after the first tower collapse, but just before OR around the second tower collapse, when you start counting back from his 11:57 a.m. interview time. BUT, realize too that he for sure needed quite some extra time to be brought down and walk all the three to four city blocks from Vesey Street to City Hall where he got interviewed on Broadway.
Thus, that explosion must have happened quite some time BEFORE the second collapse, the 10:28 a.m. WTC1N one....
And everybody understands after viewing videos of the much nearer North Tower collapse, that the first, 09:59 South Tower collapse from 29 minutes earlier, could have never launched its heavy debris that much further away into the NE part of WTC7 to damage that NE stairwell both men were in, at that time.
So at last, thanks to Nathan Flach, we have a cross check on the time frames of the 9/11 Hess and Jennings interviews, which places the stairwell EXPLOSION (which word BOTH men used in their 9/11 interviews) at a fairly long time before the North Tower collapse.
Thus, we may conclude that some nefarious group of people were already preparing WTC7 for demolition, that early already.
Now it gets more and more suspicious that Mayor Giuliani and his assistant ordered the 23rd and 24th floor OEM offices to be abandoned so early in time already. In fact BEFORE both men reached that floor by a still, at that time, working freight elevator. Because the normal elevator they used so early already brought them to OEM's already locked doors on the 23rd floor, so they had to go down again. Which first attempt by them to enter the 23rd floor must have been between 8:55 and 9:10, when we believe the arrival time Barry mentioned in later interviews with Loose Change and BBC crews.
Ask yourself also how all those OEM workers got down so fast then, without both men mentioning a very crowdy evacuation situation?
That damn early OEM evacuation must have been completed just before both men's arrival time.
Thus note that Jennings told us in later years that he arrived at WTC7 around 9 o'clock already, just 10 or 15 minutes most, after the first airplane hit the North Tower....and the second plane hit the South Tower at 9:02:54...
Then he needed some time together with Hess to find the officer who helped them to get up with the freight elevator to that 23rd floor OEM office, so let's assume he arrived in OEM around 9:30 at the latest.
Probably earlier, which means that the order to vacate the OEM offices must have been given at a CRAZY, NONLOGICAL for the official story, FAR TOO EARLY time. Even in the minute the first plane hit.
Since Jennings and Hess both said they did not encounter masses of people leaving that building when they arrived there, just a few security officers walking around in the lobby area.
Which thus means that the OEM evacuation was already completed AT LEAST between 08:46:26 and 09:00 a.m., when Jennings and Hess arrived in the WTC7 lobby in Vesey street.
I suppose no OS story follower will sleep calm anymore after contemplating on these time-frames that are so different from the NIST ones.
Realize also that both men left the OEM offices quite some time after they made both some phone calls and were ordered out there. And then the lights went out in that stairwell, so descending did not go as fast as would be done in a fully lit stairwell.
Thus, you have to count-up extra minutes, from their +/- 09:00 a.m. WTC7 lobby arrival time, up to the time they BOTH mentioned a huge explosion inside WTC7, which demolished the northeastern stairwell part under the 7th floor portion, and they were blown upwards to the 7th floor landing. Jennings was bungling with his hands to the handrail and could barely reach that upper landing on the 7th floor. Then they had no other choice than to climb to the 8th floor.
Years later, after Michael Hess became a partner in former Mayor Giuliani's law firm, Michael Hess retracted his remark about that huge explosion and made it seem as if he now believed that the implosion of that NE stairwell was caused by debris entering the NE part of WTC7 from the collapsing North Tower at 10:28. His own "1.5 hour stuck there" remark in his 11:59 a.m. 9/11 interview makes that impossible, since you have to add quite some time for him and Jennings to get out of WTC7 and get to City Hall where he got interviewed.
He is for sure a realist who knows when to follow the "party line". And also a clear liar.
That stairwell was so deep inside the FAR northeast side of WTC7, not any heavy piece of debris from one of the Twin Towers can have ever reached that deep into WTC7, without every fireman walking inside WTC7 afterwards to rescue both men, wouldn't have noticed such a huge chunk taken out of that far northern corner part of WTC7, all the way back to the daylight at the southern facade part. That should have been such a huge gash in that eastern south facade that every New Yorker walking around there on 9/11 would have talked about that for a long time afterwards.
Or any one watching WTC7 from Vesey Street wouldn't have noticed a huge, DEEP gash in the eastern SOUTHEAST facade its corner portion. The Steve Spak pictures also don't show any damage in that part of the southern facade.
That small firefighter only mentioned that both staircases were blown up, not the rest of the building in front of the stairs, towards the south facade side.
[8.] The 9/11 video where we see a reporter walking on West street in fine dust and rubble from both collapses, while telling us that they
heard about every 15 minutes explosions going off.
See my posted LDEO seismogram to compare that to the time stamps for those three after-collapse explosions in that seismogram. They fit the man's description to the minute.
Can someone find that specific video for us? It's a well known one for long term 9/11 researchers, my years old links to it were from that Danish site, that is now mostly defunct.
[9.] YourNewsWire.com : ""156 Eyewitnesses Say 9/11 Twin Towers Collapsed Due To Explosives.""
Since this website quotes most of the time quite unreliable sources, we of course have to check other ones too.
This compressed eyewitness list made by Graeme MacQueen was made by him from the original huge N.Y. Times newspaper repository one :
The New York Times huge 12,000 pages Repository, that was made public on Aug. 12, 2005.
This "Sept. 11 Records" website lists 503 F.D.N.Y. members, paramedics, and emergency medical technicians their full interviewed stories in PDF formats.
MacQueen's list starts with short excerpts from 121 FDNY Firefighters their oral histories about their conceptions or use of the words explosion or explode (112), blast (5), bomb or “secondary device” (32), blow up/blow out (17), implosion (11) and other conceptions suggestive of demolition (12).
Included are also Port Authority Police Dept. officers (14), reporters (13) and some miscellaneous others (8).
What's eerily clear, their ears, eyes and gut-feelings told them it were three (or even more) explosions for the South and North Tower. Followed by many boom, boom, booms.
Many of them also got already clearly brainwashed by the endless hours of repeated "professional explanations" on TV in the days and 2 to 3 months afterwards, which let a lot of them say things like :
"As later explained to us" or something equally indicative of social engineering, and by government and army officials cleverly used propaganda techniques, on TV and radio, or at work by their higher-ups.
See my posted LDEO seismogram to compare that to the time stamps for those three after-collapse explosions in that seismogram. They fit the man's description to the minute.
Can someone find that specific video for us? It's a well known one for long term 9/11 researchers, my years old links to it were from that Danish site, that is now mostly defunct.
[9.] YourNewsWire.com : ""156 Eyewitnesses Say 9/11 Twin Towers Collapsed Due To Explosives.""
Since this website quotes most of the time quite unreliable sources, we of course have to check other ones too.
This compressed eyewitness list made by Graeme MacQueen was made by him from the original huge N.Y. Times newspaper repository one :
The New York Times huge 12,000 pages Repository, that was made public on Aug. 12, 2005.
This "Sept. 11 Records" website lists 503 F.D.N.Y. members, paramedics, and emergency medical technicians their full interviewed stories in PDF formats.
MacQueen's list starts with short excerpts from 121 FDNY Firefighters their oral histories about their conceptions or use of the words explosion or explode (112), blast (5), bomb or “secondary device” (32), blow up/blow out (17), implosion (11) and other conceptions suggestive of demolition (12).
Included are also Port Authority Police Dept. officers (14), reporters (13) and some miscellaneous others (8).
What's eerily clear, their ears, eyes and gut-feelings told them it were three (or even more) explosions for the South and North Tower. Followed by many boom, boom, booms.
Many of them also got already clearly brainwashed by the endless hours of repeated "professional explanations" on TV in the days and 2 to 3 months afterwards, which let a lot of them say things like :
"As later explained to us" or something equally indicative of social engineering, and by government and army officials cleverly used propaganda techniques, on TV and radio, or at work by their higher-ups.
I can't understand that someone still can bring it up to try to defend the official story after reading all the correct evidence already explained in
all former ATS posts by all the honest 9/11-researchers on-board ATS, and yes, there is still a lot of really unreliable or even totally wrong
"evidence" posted here by not so precise members, or even debunkers acting as doubters who think it is funny to muddy the waters in such heinous
manner.
Especially when reading the first 22 firemen interview parts in that NYTimes FDNY 9/11 stories repository, and then reading, to top it off, this female EMS Captain who is telling you this :
Especially when reading the first 22 firemen interview parts in that NYTimes FDNY 9/11 stories repository, and then reading, to top it off, this female EMS Captain who is telling you this :
(23) Deshore, Karin (9110192) Captain (E.M.S.) date 11/7/01.
The original link to her full 27 page interview in the NYTimes repository. She was interviewed on 11/7/01.
First her recollection of events at the South Tower :
(page 11) : WHATEVER THIS EXPLOSION WAS, IT SIMPLY SUCKED ALL THE OXYGEN OUT OF THE AIR. YOU COULDN'T BREATHE AND THE FEELING OF SUFFOCATION, I CAN'T EXPLAIN NO FURTHER ON THAT.
Which is exactly the description of one of the results of a "vacuum bomba", as the Russians once called their biggest-ever thermobaric test explosion, the Tsar Bomba.
Then her recollection of events at the North Tower :
[Page 15] : “Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building.
Anyone still believes this is a description of a natural collapse...?
To me, it's a precise description of cutter charges ignited to cut vertical columns.
Followed much later by thermobarics going off to literally blow-up floor spaces, to break away already broken bolts and welds there and lift up concrete floor decks.
And to break away the Vierendeel outer facade column pieces their already cut welds and bolts. And produce thus LOTS of cement and concrete dust clouds which spit outwards, giving the impression of a natural collapse initiation.
Of course, after the first huge blows, the building followed a pattern of mostly natural collapses in the floor space regions, while the now free standing vertical core columns were swinging and breaking (or got already broken by the first cutter charges).
Now realize that quite some time passes after she witnessed those flashes and popping sounds, it's not as if that North Tower directly went down after that.
No, she goes back inside :
[p. 15] I went inside and told everybody that the other building, there was an explosion occurring up there and I said I think we have another major explosion. I don't know if we are all going to be safe here.…
They are picking up all the injured and walk and carry them to the waterfront, to try to find a boat to get away.
[p. 16] So here these explosions are getting bigger and louder and bigger and louder and I told everybody if this building totally explodes, still unaware that the other building had collapsed, I’m going in the water. I said I can swim.…
Then a small Jersey boat comes into the marina with some police officers on it, and they assist her in getting the injured on that boat.
Realize that the North Tower still hasn't collapsed yet. And that most videos shown by the Networks of the collapses had their original sounds removed, or overlapped by the blabbering reporters and the idiot loud noise of all those sirens, as if nobody knew yet that we had an emergency already for nearly two hours.
[pp. 17-18] I’m still standing there trying to figure out what my next move should be, when the same sergeant says focking #t, it’s coming at us, and that’s a quote. Again I didn’t see what was happening behind me, but knowing of all the explosions I thought here was another explosion coming and this sound again and this wave of this force again.”
And that was the North Tower collapse, seemingly minutes AFTER she witnessed all those orange and then red flashes, and heard those accompanying popping sounds around the middle portion of the North Tower.
Minutes BEFORE it at last collapsed. Those towers were tougher than these planners had thought.
And there is much more, see also interview numbers :
(31) Fenyo, Christopher (9110295).
That's a parabola trajectory, three times the width of a North Tower side....
OS proposers say it can happen when a natural collapsing building of that height is compressing a piece of the facade consisting of some three columns, and then they break at the top and bottom and "snap away".
The problem with that idea is, if such columns are compressed that way, they deform, but do not "spring back" in their former shape.
They are not bed springs or such.
And the Vierendeel outer column chunks as seen stuck in WFC3 are NOT deformed.....! Like double bended or such. They are stuck there in one piece.
And have thus been launched in one, triple column formed, piece.
Those of you who have served in army units with tanks, howitzers, canons and mortars have been taught how to calculate shell parabolae. In this case, you can calculate backwards starting from the known height, distance flown, and the weight of that chunk.
To result in the force needed to launch that chunk, that far. You'll be surprised.
You saw an example of the result of a proceeding natural collapse, after an initial explosive initiation, in the famous backwards shot video by that camera man running away from the starting South Tower collapse. There you see the same kind of Vierendeel facade column chunks fall very close, no more than 20 meters, besides the lowest outer facade and hitting the ground there. They were forced outwards by the proceeding collapse, that broke those chunks off and pushed them then only a short distance outward.
Which occurs in a natural collapse, as was proceeding after the first initial huge explosions, and those explosions were the events that hurdled that "piece of Trade Center" across West Street into the southwest corner of WFC3.
(33) Fiztpatrick, Thomas (9110001)
(39) Gregory, Stephen (9110008) The famous low level flashes.
(71) Murphy, Keith (9110323)
(31) Fenyo, Christopher (9110295).
"At that point a debate began to rage because the perception was that the building looked like it had been taken out with charges."
North Tower:
“There was an explosion at the top of the Trade Center and a piece of Trade Center flew across the West Side Highway and hit the Financial Center…” [p. 3]"
That's a parabola trajectory, three times the width of a North Tower side....
OS proposers say it can happen when a natural collapsing building of that height is compressing a piece of the facade consisting of some three columns, and then they break at the top and bottom and "snap away".
The problem with that idea is, if such columns are compressed that way, they deform, but do not "spring back" in their former shape.
They are not bed springs or such.
And the Vierendeel outer column chunks as seen stuck in WFC3 are NOT deformed.....! Like double bended or such. They are stuck there in one piece.
And have thus been launched in one, triple column formed, piece.
Those of you who have served in army units with tanks, howitzers, canons and mortars have been taught how to calculate shell parabolae. In this case, you can calculate backwards starting from the known height, distance flown, and the weight of that chunk.
To result in the force needed to launch that chunk, that far. You'll be surprised.
You saw an example of the result of a proceeding natural collapse, after an initial explosive initiation, in the famous backwards shot video by that camera man running away from the starting South Tower collapse. There you see the same kind of Vierendeel facade column chunks fall very close, no more than 20 meters, besides the lowest outer facade and hitting the ground there. They were forced outwards by the proceeding collapse, that broke those chunks off and pushed them then only a short distance outward.
Which occurs in a natural collapse, as was proceeding after the first initial huge explosions, and those explosions were the events that hurdled that "piece of Trade Center" across West Street into the southwest corner of WFC3.
(33) Fiztpatrick, Thomas (9110001)
"it looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building."
(39) Gregory, Stephen (9110008) The famous low level flashes.
“I know about the explosion on the upper floors. This was like eye level. I didn’t have to go like this. Because I was looking this way. I’m not going to say it was on the first floor or the second floor, but somewhere in that area I saw what appeared to me to be flashes.” [pp. 14-16]
(71) Murphy, Keith (9110323)
I had heard right before the lights went out, I had heard a distant boom boom boom, sounded like three explosions.
(77) Ondrovic, Patricia (9110048) shield 1634, EMTD, assigned to FDNY Battalion 8.
The original link to her full 14 page interview in the NYTimes repository. She was interviewed on 10/11/01.
Strange! She clearly later on describes the lobby from WTC7 exploding, since she was all the time in the center part of Vesey Street! She described their ambulance parking spot as somewhere in the middle between West St which she calls West Highway, and Church St, which she calls the other highway on the other side of Vesey.
The entrances to the lobby of WTC7 were at that spot she indicates as where she and her partner parked their ambulance.
She definitely was no where near the South Tower.
Liberty Street was situated in front of the south side of the South Tower, while Vesey Street, which she all the time said she was on, was in front of WTC7's southern facade, at street level, not at Plaza level. Sometimes called also Concourse level or Mezzanine level.
And not in front of the North Tower either, WTC6 and WTC5 were on that side of Vesey Street, not WTC1N, the North Tower, which was situated behind WTC6, the Custom House.
So how could she have seen the lobby of WTC1N being blown out? Impossible from her low viewpoint on that Vesey Street "canyon" center part, in between those two foot bridges.
In the Plaza lobby of WTC7 was a triage sector! See the NIST Reports.
And the NIST FAQ WTC7 :
www.nist.gov...
Barry Jennings said in the Loose Change interviews (the BBC one I don't know) that he was told not to look down, but he thought he stepped over dead bodies in the lobby of WTC7, while the firemen that saved him and Michael Hess some short time before 12 o'clock, lead them outside. I still find it a strange remark, of course you look down when stepping over, and perhaps even feeling dead still elastic bodies with your feet in soft shoes. Or it must have been the jumper bodies leftovers....Messy and bloody to say the least.
(LT : The reader might think it could have been WTC1N, at 10:28:31 it collapsed. See her above link to her full 14 page interview.
It could also have been the lobby of WTC7 however.
She herself believes correctly it was the South Tower collapse, which came down at 09:59:04. But she couldn't see the lobby of the South Tower AT ALL from her position down on Vesey Street.! There was only one spot on Vesey St., namely between WTC5 and WTC6, where you could see all the way through towards WTC2S (the South Tower its lobby). However, you had to stand on the smaller, most eastern footbridge that was build over Vesey St., while we know that Patricia Ondrovic was at Vesey Street its street level and she thus had no view at all on the South Tower lobby entrances and neither the North Tower ones.
And as far as we know, the collapse initiations in both towers were high up, near the plane impacts, and certainly not in the LOBBY's.!
At the Pentagon the message about a third plane came in shortly before 10 o'clock, then they evacuated all responders to a spot under the overpass bridge under Route 27, aka Washington Boulevard.! Which events fits her remarks about hearing about that third plane from a police officer she knew, in the restrooms of that TexMex restaurant at the other side of Vesey, perfectly. )
LT : WTC7 was on Vesey, and WTC1N nor WTC2S both definitely were not on Vesey. So she must be talking about the lobby of WTC7....
See this picture of the Vesey Street side of WTC7, the south facade side, before 9/11 took place. Notice the two footbridges leading from the Plaza area between both Twin Towers to the Plaza LOBBY of WTC7. What she is referring to, is the street level lobby area with the glass doors :
At that spot where they parked their ambulance, Vesey Street laid in a kind of "canyon", lower than the Plaza level, the walking area around the Twin Towers.
The original link to her full 14 page interview in the NYTimes repository. She was interviewed on 10/11/01.
Strange! She clearly later on describes the lobby from WTC7 exploding, since she was all the time in the center part of Vesey Street! She described their ambulance parking spot as somewhere in the middle between West St which she calls West Highway, and Church St, which she calls the other highway on the other side of Vesey.
The entrances to the lobby of WTC7 were at that spot she indicates as where she and her partner parked their ambulance.
She definitely was no where near the South Tower.
Liberty Street was situated in front of the south side of the South Tower, while Vesey Street, which she all the time said she was on, was in front of WTC7's southern facade, at street level, not at Plaza level. Sometimes called also Concourse level or Mezzanine level.
And not in front of the North Tower either, WTC6 and WTC5 were on that side of Vesey Street, not WTC1N, the North Tower, which was situated behind WTC6, the Custom House.
So how could she have seen the lobby of WTC1N being blown out? Impossible from her low viewpoint on that Vesey Street "canyon" center part, in between those two foot bridges.
In the Plaza lobby of WTC7 was a triage sector! See the NIST Reports.
And the NIST FAQ WTC7 :
www.nist.gov...
Barry Jennings said in the Loose Change interviews (the BBC one I don't know) that he was told not to look down, but he thought he stepped over dead bodies in the lobby of WTC7, while the firemen that saved him and Michael Hess some short time before 12 o'clock, lead them outside. I still find it a strange remark, of course you look down when stepping over, and perhaps even feeling dead still elastic bodies with your feet in soft shoes. Or it must have been the jumper bodies leftovers....Messy and bloody to say the least.
South Tower collapse :
“My partner and I grabbed our stretcher, went to put it in the back of our vehicle, and at that time, I think it was the lobby of the building behind us blew out.
Everybody started running, I didn’t see him again that day. He got thrown one way, I got thrown the other way …
(LT : The reader might think it could have been WTC1N, at 10:28:31 it collapsed. See her above link to her full 14 page interview.
It could also have been the lobby of WTC7 however.
She herself believes correctly it was the South Tower collapse, which came down at 09:59:04. But she couldn't see the lobby of the South Tower AT ALL from her position down on Vesey Street.! There was only one spot on Vesey St., namely between WTC5 and WTC6, where you could see all the way through towards WTC2S (the South Tower its lobby). However, you had to stand on the smaller, most eastern footbridge that was build over Vesey St., while we know that Patricia Ondrovic was at Vesey Street its street level and she thus had no view at all on the South Tower lobby entrances and neither the North Tower ones.
And as far as we know, the collapse initiations in both towers were high up, near the plane impacts, and certainly not in the LOBBY's.!
At the Pentagon the message about a third plane came in shortly before 10 o'clock, then they evacuated all responders to a spot under the overpass bridge under Route 27, aka Washington Boulevard.! Which events fits her remarks about hearing about that third plane from a police officer she knew, in the restrooms of that TexMex restaurant at the other side of Vesey, perfectly. )
(Page 5 : ) I was still on Vesey, cause the building that blew up on me was on Vesey …
(Page 6 : ) There was no where safe to go …
LT : WTC7 was on Vesey, and WTC1N nor WTC2S both definitely were not on Vesey. So she must be talking about the lobby of WTC7....
See this picture of the Vesey Street side of WTC7, the south facade side, before 9/11 took place. Notice the two footbridges leading from the Plaza area between both Twin Towers to the Plaza LOBBY of WTC7. What she is referring to, is the street level lobby area with the glass doors :
At that spot where they parked their ambulance, Vesey Street laid in a kind of "canyon", lower than the Plaza level, the walking area around the Twin Towers.
Read also her story about 3 cars that blew up on her and set her on fire, while she was running inside that dust cloud. Pages 5 + 6.
And on page 7, read her remarks about the blown up AIRPLANE she saw above Jersey when she ran out of the dust cloud in North Park :
I really do not understand why there is no serious news reporter concentrating on her above remarks about the plane that she saw blew up or shot out of the sky :
She now knows that it was the South Tower, the first to come down, and that she was running in its collapse dust cloud.
So, in that case, she thus reported the lobby of WTC7 to have been blown up.!!!
Since she was in the middle section of Vesey Street between West Street and Church Street at that moment.
We have a 29:01 minutes long video of the reporter + cameraman who walked around the Twin Tower area just before the South Tower collapse, ducked under an ambulance during that collapse, waited until the dust thinned and then proceeded to Vesey Street where they filmed the light debris there, mostly dust and paper.
Then they stepped through the blown (in- or outwards?) WTC7 lobby windows at Vesey street level and took the (stopped) rolling electric stairs up to WTC7 its Plaza-Lobby area where they met that guy from the Secret Service (Bennette, who later was probationary convicted of "saving" three "demolished" new cars he ought to bring to a scrap yard, but he fixed them up and sold or gave them to his mother and brother in law). And the camera man filmed a bit around, and there is no triage sector to be seen in that small western part of that WTC7 lobby. That part was empty. A triage section had been situated in the eastern part of that huge lobby. Then they proceeded to West street, to film the cut in two WTC3 a.k.a. the Marriott Hotel, and were lucky enough to be at a reasonable distance away southwards, when WTC1N collapsed, and they filmed that too :
WORLD TRADE CENTER 9-11 BEST FOOTAGE EVER SEEN / ATAQUE TORRES (29:01 min) :
Or try this link : www.youtube.com...
I do remember a video where we see such a triage in the eastern lobby corner of the WTC7 Plaza level lobby in that WTC7 video. Anyone find it?
Many years only the WTC7 visit by that reporter and cameraman was shown, cut out from their full coverage. That gave for some the impression that it was filmed after the North Tower collapse. Now you see with your own eyes that it was visited just after the first collapse, the South Tower one.
So, ask yourself why all those WTC7 glass doors and thick windows on its Vesey Street side were broken, EVEN under those two wide, protective footbridges.
And on page 7, read her remarks about the blown up AIRPLANE she saw above Jersey when she ran out of the dust cloud in North Park :
Then the plane in the middle just disappeared into a little fire ball.
I really do not understand why there is no serious news reporter concentrating on her above remarks about the plane that she saw blew up or shot out of the sky :
(Bottom page 6 + page 7 : ) As I was running north in this park, and then I could start seeing again a little bit, and I just kept looking in the sky. Cause the captain was saying there's another plane heading in our direction, I was looking for another plane.
I saw something in the sky, it was a plane, but it was way out.
It looked like it was over Jersey or something, then it wasn't there anymore.
I saw a small fireball, and it was gone.
I saw two other planes. One came in one way, and the other came in the other way, and there was a plane in the middle that was way far off in the distance.
Then the plane in the middle just disappeared into a little fire ball.
It looked like the size of a golf ball from where I could see it.
And the other two planes veered off into opposite directions.
I just kept on running north. About fifteen blocks later, I had no idea that that was just the first tower that had come down. I had no idea at that time that that's what that was, and the other buildings were being affected, of course, by that building falling.""
She now knows that it was the South Tower, the first to come down, and that she was running in its collapse dust cloud.
So, in that case, she thus reported the lobby of WTC7 to have been blown up.!!!
Since she was in the middle section of Vesey Street between West Street and Church Street at that moment.
We have a 29:01 minutes long video of the reporter + cameraman who walked around the Twin Tower area just before the South Tower collapse, ducked under an ambulance during that collapse, waited until the dust thinned and then proceeded to Vesey Street where they filmed the light debris there, mostly dust and paper.
Then they stepped through the blown (in- or outwards?) WTC7 lobby windows at Vesey street level and took the (stopped) rolling electric stairs up to WTC7 its Plaza-Lobby area where they met that guy from the Secret Service (Bennette, who later was probationary convicted of "saving" three "demolished" new cars he ought to bring to a scrap yard, but he fixed them up and sold or gave them to his mother and brother in law). And the camera man filmed a bit around, and there is no triage sector to be seen in that small western part of that WTC7 lobby. That part was empty. A triage section had been situated in the eastern part of that huge lobby. Then they proceeded to West street, to film the cut in two WTC3 a.k.a. the Marriott Hotel, and were lucky enough to be at a reasonable distance away southwards, when WTC1N collapsed, and they filmed that too :
WORLD TRADE CENTER 9-11 BEST FOOTAGE EVER SEEN / ATAQUE TORRES (29:01 min) :
Or try this link : www.youtube.com...
I do remember a video where we see such a triage in the eastern lobby corner of the WTC7 Plaza level lobby in that WTC7 video. Anyone find it?
Many years only the WTC7 visit by that reporter and cameraman was shown, cut out from their full coverage. That gave for some the impression that it was filmed after the North Tower collapse. Now you see with your own eyes that it was visited just after the first collapse, the South Tower one.
So, ask yourself why all those WTC7 glass doors and thick windows on its Vesey Street side were broken, EVEN under those two wide, protective footbridges.
It looks as if there was much more going on in the skies on 9/11 than we heard in the first months and later on.
Perhaps some rogue part of the USAF, a jet fighter, or another hijacked plane we never heard about was shot out of the sky completely?
Why did no one else ever report on this plane's destruction?
Did only she noticed it...??? It sounds as a bit exaggerated eyewitness report to me. However, Patricia Ondrovic was there. And distinctively said she saw it happen.
Ain't it strange, the disinterest by her interviewer? Wouldn't you have asked her some more details about her remark about that blown up plane she saw? He just proceeded, as if nothing of interest passed. Didn't ask her if it was a passenger plane, a fighter jet or a small private plane. No interest at all....
And then there are 8 sentences BLACKED OUT at the bottom of page 9.....and a lot too in page 12 and 13!!! And in between the one at page 9 is this one snippet not blacked out :
That's the South Tower, the first one to collapse.
She says exactly what happened, that the first tower (WTC2, South Tower, Tower Two) had collapsed. NIST says at 09:59:04.
That's a very significant time stamp, connected thus to all of her further remarks in her interview.! The reporting of a hypothetical third plane coming, around 10 o'clock, and a few other things the readers who really pay attention to small details will find out themselves.
She could however become another public example, like Barry Jennings, a possible victim, so be careful in approaching her, please.
Best for her to be placed in a protective witness situation, when it ever would come to a worldwide, real 9/11 historical fact finding investigation.
Perhaps some rogue part of the USAF, a jet fighter, or another hijacked plane we never heard about was shot out of the sky completely?
Why did no one else ever report on this plane's destruction?
Did only she noticed it...??? It sounds as a bit exaggerated eyewitness report to me. However, Patricia Ondrovic was there. And distinctively said she saw it happen.
Ain't it strange, the disinterest by her interviewer? Wouldn't you have asked her some more details about her remark about that blown up plane she saw? He just proceeded, as if nothing of interest passed. Didn't ask her if it was a passenger plane, a fighter jet or a small private plane. No interest at all....
(To the end of page 7 : ) I thought that they blew up our triage sector …
The paramedic from Cabrini, that’s where he was. I was just talking to him 20 minutes before everything blew up. [pp. 4-7] …
At that point I got really upset. I said, do you realize they just blew up our triage sector? Everybody back there is dead, everybody back there is gone.” [p. 9]
And then there are 8 sentences BLACKED OUT at the bottom of page 9.....and a lot too in page 12 and 13!!! And in between the one at page 9 is this one snippet not blacked out :
I still hadn't realized that the first tower had fallen.
That's the South Tower, the first one to collapse.
She says exactly what happened, that the first tower (WTC2, South Tower, Tower Two) had collapsed. NIST says at 09:59:04.
That's a very significant time stamp, connected thus to all of her further remarks in her interview.! The reporting of a hypothetical third plane coming, around 10 o'clock, and a few other things the readers who really pay attention to small details will find out themselves.
She could however become another public example, like Barry Jennings, a possible victim, so be careful in approaching her, please.
Best for her to be placed in a protective witness situation, when it ever would come to a worldwide, real 9/11 historical fact finding investigation.
[10.] Journalof911Studies.com article by Graeme
MacQueen, August 21, 2006 : “118 Witnesses: The Firefighters’ Testimony to Explosions in the Twin Towers.”
Sadly, there were very little investigative questions asked by interviewers. Which could have shed light on some very disturbing remarks by many fire fighters, EMS personnel and police officers.
According to Jim Dwyer of the New York Times, the FDNY oral histories were
“originally gathered on the order of Thomas Von Essen, the city fire commissioner on Sept. 11, who said he wanted to preserve those accounts before they became reshaped by a collective memory.”[2] The oral histories constitute about 12,000 pages of testimony by 503 FDNY firefighters, emergency medical technicians and paramedics collected from early October, 2001 to late January, 2002. Mr. Von Essen’s prophetic act has given us a remarkably rich body of narrative material.
Sadly, there were very little investigative questions asked by interviewers. Which could have shed light on some very disturbing remarks by many fire fighters, EMS personnel and police officers.
[11.] The CIA and the Media. 50 Facts the
World needs to know.
No further explanation needed? Don't think so.
If the CIA or other agencies wanted something out, it disappeared from the news.
Like the explosion sounds from the endlessly repeated Tower collapses.
Internet forums, like 9/11 related ones, of course fall in this category too. A great source of new income for many site owners (just saying and helping out here).
I wouldn't mind, as long as f.ex. here at ATS, all my fact finding posts are accepted and kept online as always, for the long run.
Don't use electronic Clouds, a.k.a. and better described as server parks.
I hope you now understand who in fact financed them...
Use your own SSD's or memory sticks to keep your family affairs safe from spying eyes. Even better, keep your mouth or keyboard shut about touchy subjects.
The Never Ending Story about so called Intelligence gaps, (smirky smile).
There were no intelligence gaps before 9/11.
The Able Danger team was for more than one year already on top of the suspected hijackers, unbeknownst to the 9/11-planners at that time. When "they" found out, they silenced that Able Danger team, in courts and otherwise.
Which indicates clearly, at what levels you must start to doubt the real intentions of your voted-for representatives and "trusted" military top levels...
Btw, the 1993 WTC attack explosion was also fully covered from begin to end by the FBI. The former Egyptian army major who was delivering the explosives he got from his FBI handlers to those three Arab stooges, was so much in distrust of these handlers after he asked for lookalike explosives but got real ones, that he recorded all his phone calls with his FBI handlers.
No further explanation needed? Don't think so.
If the CIA or other agencies wanted something out, it disappeared from the news.
Like the explosion sounds from the endlessly repeated Tower collapses.
48. In 1999 the CIA established In-Q-Tel, a venture capital firm seeking to “identify and invest in companies developing cutting-edge information technologies that serve United States national security interests.”
The firm has exercised financial relationships with internet platforms Americans use on a routine basis, including Google and Facebook. “If you want to keep up with Silicon Valley, you need to become part of Silicon Valley,” says Jim Rickards, an adviser to the U.S. intelligence community familiar with In-Q-Tel’s activities. “The best way to do that is have a budget because when you have a checkbook, everyone comes to you.” At one point IQT “catered largely to the needs of the CIA.” Today, however, “the firm supports many of the 17 agencies within the U.S. intelligence community, including the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA), the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and the Department of Homeland Security Science and Technology Directorate.” Matt Egan, “In-Q-Tel: A Glimpse Inside the CIA’s Venture Capital Arm,” FoxBusiness.com, June 14, 2013.
Internet forums, like 9/11 related ones, of course fall in this category too. A great source of new income for many site owners (just saying and helping out here).
I wouldn't mind, as long as f.ex. here at ATS, all my fact finding posts are accepted and kept online as always, for the long run.
49. At a 2012 conference held by In-Q-Tel, CIA Director David Patraeus declared that the rapidly-developing “internet of things” and “smart home” will provide the CIA with the ability to spy on any US citizen should they become a “person of interest’ to the spy community,” Wired magazine reports. “‘Transformational’ is an overused word, but I do believe it properly applies to these technologies,’ Patraeus enthused, ‘particularly to their effect on clandestine tradecraft’ … ‘Items of interest will be located, identified, monitored, and remotely controlled through technologies such as radio-frequency identification, sensor networks, tiny embedded servers, and energy harvesters — all connected to the next-generation internet using abundant, low-cost, and high-power computing,” Patraeus said, “the latter now going to cloud computing, in many areas greater and greater supercomputing, and, ultimately, heading to quantum computing.” Spencer Ackerman, “CIA Chief: We’ll Spy on You Through Your Dishwasher,” Wired, March 15, 2012.
Don't use electronic Clouds, a.k.a. and better described as server parks.
I hope you now understand who in fact financed them...
Use your own SSD's or memory sticks to keep your family affairs safe from spying eyes. Even better, keep your mouth or keyboard shut about touchy subjects.
50. In the summer of 2014 a $600 million computing cloud developed by Amazon Web Services for the CIA began servicing all 17 federal agencies comprising the intelligence community. “If the technology plays out as officials envision,” The Atlantic reports, “it will usher in a new era of cooperation and coordination, allowing agencies to share information and services much more easily and avoid the kind of intelligence gaps that preceded the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.” “The Details About the CIA’s Deal With Amazon,” The Atlantic, July 17, 2014.
The original source of this article is Global Research
Copyright © James F. Tracy, Global Research, 2015
The Never Ending Story about so called Intelligence gaps, (smirky smile).
There were no intelligence gaps before 9/11.
The Able Danger team was for more than one year already on top of the suspected hijackers, unbeknownst to the 9/11-planners at that time. When "they" found out, they silenced that Able Danger team, in courts and otherwise.
Which indicates clearly, at what levels you must start to doubt the real intentions of your voted-for representatives and "trusted" military top levels...
Btw, the 1993 WTC attack explosion was also fully covered from begin to end by the FBI. The former Egyptian army major who was delivering the explosives he got from his FBI handlers to those three Arab stooges, was so much in distrust of these handlers after he asked for lookalike explosives but got real ones, that he recorded all his phone calls with his FBI handlers.
Last (but not the least) post for now :
Let NIST explain to us, how the HUGE seismic event shown as that huge first seismic peak on the LDEO seismogram of the collapse of WTC7, could have been much bigger in amplitude (seismic power) than the 8.2 seconds later following GLOBAL total building collapse, during which ALL the OTHER 23 vertical core, and 19 facade columns (and of course the horizontal ones eventually too) must have buckled and failed in the exact same manner.
That huge seismic event which I proved took place inside WTC7, already BEFORE their initiating event (NIST : the buckling of column 79), situated under the first dent in the roof of WTC7's eastern penthouse, seen on the Cianca photo which had an atomic clock proved and by NIST provided time stamp on it, put there by NIST themselves,
So why did we see just THAT ONE huge seismic amplitude peak, and was that not followed 8.2 seconds later by a whole flock of identically high in amplitude, seismic peaks...?
Since it were 23 of the other IDENTICALLY THICK steel CORE columns, after that first event, also buckling and breaking during those last crucial 6 seconds of WTC7's existance, on 9/11, just after 17:20 hrs, EDT.
Accompanied by 19 outer facade, thick steel vertical columns, buckling and breaking too. And all the horizontal steel breaking too.
We see however just a flock of much lower seismic peaks 8.2 seconds later in the LDEO seismogram.!
NIST keeps saying that that huge peak was caused solely by the buckling of column 79, their famous initiation event....
Anyone with a tiny bit of education can see NIST is blatantly wrong, when studying the timestamps on the LDEO seismogram of the collapse of WTC7, and comparing those to the NIST timestamp on the Cianca photo of the first sign of destructive movement, the denting of the roof of the eastern penthouse, situated on the roof of WTC7.
And thereafter also listening to the deep loud booommm in that FOIA freed video of the onset of the WTC7 collapse. Just before that east-penthouse roof visibly starts denting.
See for all the WTC7 seismic details my 5 signature links under all my posts (members only).
See also Charles M. Beck's WTC7 thesis (he has two more about the Twin Towers) :
arxiv.org...
And read this whole thread :
WTC-7 Mysteries FINALLY Solved.
Let NIST explain to us, how the HUGE seismic event shown as that huge first seismic peak on the LDEO seismogram of the collapse of WTC7, could have been much bigger in amplitude (seismic power) than the 8.2 seconds later following GLOBAL total building collapse, during which ALL the OTHER 23 vertical core, and 19 facade columns (and of course the horizontal ones eventually too) must have buckled and failed in the exact same manner.
That huge seismic event which I proved took place inside WTC7, already BEFORE their initiating event (NIST : the buckling of column 79), situated under the first dent in the roof of WTC7's eastern penthouse, seen on the Cianca photo which had an atomic clock proved and by NIST provided time stamp on it, put there by NIST themselves,
So why did we see just THAT ONE huge seismic amplitude peak, and was that not followed 8.2 seconds later by a whole flock of identically high in amplitude, seismic peaks...?
Since it were 23 of the other IDENTICALLY THICK steel CORE columns, after that first event, also buckling and breaking during those last crucial 6 seconds of WTC7's existance, on 9/11, just after 17:20 hrs, EDT.
Accompanied by 19 outer facade, thick steel vertical columns, buckling and breaking too. And all the horizontal steel breaking too.
We see however just a flock of much lower seismic peaks 8.2 seconds later in the LDEO seismogram.!
NIST keeps saying that that huge peak was caused solely by the buckling of column 79, their famous initiation event....
Anyone with a tiny bit of education can see NIST is blatantly wrong, when studying the timestamps on the LDEO seismogram of the collapse of WTC7, and comparing those to the NIST timestamp on the Cianca photo of the first sign of destructive movement, the denting of the roof of the eastern penthouse, situated on the roof of WTC7.
And thereafter also listening to the deep loud booommm in that FOIA freed video of the onset of the WTC7 collapse. Just before that east-penthouse roof visibly starts denting.
See for all the WTC7 seismic details my 5 signature links under all my posts (members only).
See also Charles M. Beck's WTC7 thesis (he has two more about the Twin Towers) :
arxiv.org...
And read this whole thread :
WTC-7 Mysteries FINALLY Solved.
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