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China, Russia plan joint military exercise

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posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 11:32 PM
China, Russia plan joint military exercise

MOSCOW -- Once-bitter rivals Russia and China will hold a massive joint military exercise on Chinese territory next year involving submarines and possibly strategic bombers, Russia's defense minister said Monday as the two nations move to bolster military ties.

Many observers saw the announcement as Russia's response to a spat with the United States and other Western nations over the disputed election in Ukraine, where the Kremlin-backed candidate trailed a pro-Western politician.

After decades of rivalry, China has become the No. 1 customer for Russia's struggling defense industry, buying billions of dollars in fighters, missiles, submarines and destroyers

posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 04:38 AM
This has been covered already,
i cant remember what happened to the thread, but this was created only about a month ago.

posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 01:25 PM
I cannot find that old thread, can someone post the link on that thread.

posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 01:48 PM

Originally posted by dragons
I cannot find that old thread, can someone post the link on that thread.

im searching for it

i swear to God we've had this posted before (if we haven't, i am sorry)

posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 11:26 PM
Latest development
Air Force to Offer Strategic Bombers to China

Russia could sell China strategic bombers and plans to tout them during a joint exercise later this year, Air Force commander General Vladimir Mikhailov said Thursday.

"We could sell some Tu-22M3 and Tu-95 bombers [to China]. We will show them to our neighbor. ... If they have the money, let them buy," Mikhailov told reporters at a briefing, referring to the first-ever joint Russian-Chinese military maneuvers announced by Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov last month.

Able to carry long-range nuclear cruise missiles, these strategic bombers would significantly boost Chinese nuclear capability, said Konstantin Makiyenko, a defense analyst with the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies.

Over the past decade, China has been the top customer for Russian arms, stocking up on Sukhoi fighters, destroyers and advanced air-defense systems.

The strategic arm of the Air Force is to get two new Tu-160 bombers this year. Last month, its commander, Lieutenant General Igor Khvorov, said the Air Force is considering about 10 design proposals for a new generation bomber based on the Tu-160.

The Air Force's 30 percent increase in budget funding this year should help to speed up the modernization of its existing fighter planes and the next generation fighter program, Mikhailov said Thursday.

This year the Air Force will finance the upgrade of 17 more Su-27 jets into the more advanced Su-27SM version fitted with new avionics. Late last year it received seven Su-27SMs from the Sukhoi production plant at Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

Mikhailov said that Sukhoi is continuing work on the fifth-generation fighter, which it hopes to test-fly by 2007. Its future progress would depend on financing, which has been insufficient so far, he said.

In a new development, Mikhailov said that MiG-29 fighters would also be modernized, signaling a shift by the Air Force away from Sukhoi-only upgrade programs.

He said that MiG officials would next Monday begin inspecting the MiG-29s that are to be upgraded. After the refit, some will be returned to the Air Force and some sold abroad.

Mikhailov said he had also discussed with MiG executives the creation of a new light fighter, but he refused to go into details.

"This means that the Air Force will resume a tender for the next generation fighter," said Makiyenko, the defense analyst. "MiG has continued working on this project, despite Sukhoi winning the government tender two years ago."

In a separate comment, Mikhailov said Air Force pilots will fly an average of 60 hours this year, an increase on previous years.

posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 02:02 AM
i think they are training together, sharing military secrets and technologies. and when they think theyve become strong enough, they will attack. i dont know who theyll attack, but i can almost guarantee one of the countries will be the united states. but dont take me seriously, its just a theory.

posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 02:16 PM
Rise of China will push India and US closer: Experts:
[India News]: New Delhi, Jan 17 : The rise of China and India as major powers by 2020, as predicted by a US intelligence report, is good news for growing Indis-US relations.

In a scenario where China emerges as a superpower and thus a potential threat to the US' sole superpower status, the US will team up with India to counter China's ambitions, said K Subrahmanyam, top strategy expert, here Monday.

"It is inevitable that India and the US will come together under pressures of mutuality of interest," said Subrahmanyam, who headed the Kargil panel appointed by the former Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)-led government. He was speaking at a seminar organised by SAPRA India Foundation, a think tank on security and strategic issues, on the future of India-US relations.

Enthusiastically endorsing this vision of India and the US morphing into natural allies, Ram Narayanan, an activist who has spawned a worldwide net of friends of India through his website, expounded passionately on "the inevitability of a solid and comprehensive US-India strategic partnership."

Said Narayanan: "If the US does not want to surrender its current position in world affairs to China, it must have a close partnership with India. For this marriage of commitment to happen, it is entirely up to the US to say yes, to wear the ring on its finger."

Outlining the synergies and congruencies between India and the US, Subrahmanyam said: "Geography has placed India and the US together. There is a 12-hr time difference between the US and India. When America goes to sleep, India can take the work forward and vice versa.

The combination of the US and India can generate maximum efficiency in the area of intellectual labour. India's growing middle class market and its awesome brainpower will prove added attractions to the US, he said.

"The only way the US can sustain its power is by retaining its dominance of the knowledge industry. For the US' dominance to continue, the US has to ensure that its brainpower doesn't fall below that of Europe or China. Importing brains from India will be a major stimulant of US-India relations," said Subrahmanyam.

There were also some critical notes in this predominantly melodious rendition of the US-India relations. Former Indian high commissioner to Pakistan G Parthasarathy stressed the need for a more proactive involvement of 1.7 million Indians settled in the US in influencing perceptions of India with American policy makers.

"Instead of being obsessed with photo-ops in the media, the Indian American community can play a far bigger role in promoting a better understanding of India," said the senior diplomat.

While ruling out a defence alliance, former Indian Army chief Gen V.P. Malik spoke of deepening of ties between the US and India as a continuous process.

In the end, what emerged from a multiplicity of opinions was an overwhelming consensus on taking the US-India relations forward. But one thing is certain: whichever way global power relations finally shape up, India's relationship with the US will be central to the balance of power.

Narayanan's aggressively optimistic vision will probably find more converts in the US strategy establishment. "If the US does not wish to end up playing second fiddle in a global orchestra, it is very very clear what she needs to do. And who she needs to do it with."

Indo-Asian News Service

posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 02:24 PM
EU embargo on arms deliveries to China to be lifted

17.01.2005, 14.56

PARIS, January 17 (Itar-Tass) - The European Union is to lift the embargo on arms deliveries to China by the end of July 2005, Itar-Tass has learned from trustworthy sources within the EU.

Luxembourg, which is now chairing the European Union, has set the task of lifting the 1989 embargo, regarding this as one of the principal goals of its current mandate, they noted.

It was stressed that the lifting of the embargo would be of “cardinal significance”, since it would refer the deliveries of weapons to China to the jurisdiction of national states. France had reportedly already received Beijing’s preliminary request for weapons worth two billion U.S. dollars.

The balance of forces within the European Union during the embargo deliberations of recent years flowed in favour of those coming out for its abolition. They were backed by Britain. Today, only four countries, namely the Netherlands, Finland, Denmark and Ireland, are objecting to the lifting of the embargo. The new states, which were granted EU membership on May 1st, 2004, were barred from the consultations.

According to trustworthy sources, the main obstacle to a final compromise is that several countries are calling for the establishment of a special Arms Trade Code with China. Its main requirement is that the national states should notify the European Union on the weapon systems they wish to sell to China. France is firmly objecting to such controls. It is a consistent advocate of the principle of confidentiality in such transactions.

posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 11:05 AM

China builds up strategic sea lanes

By Bill Gertz

China is building up military forces and setting up bases along sea lanes from the Middle East to project its power overseas and protect its oil shipments, according to a previously undisclosed internal report prepared for Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld.
"China is building strategic relationships along the sea lanes from the Middle East to the South China Sea in ways that suggest defensive and offensive positioning to protect China's energy interests, but also to serve broad security objectives," said the report sponsored by the director, Net Assessment, who heads Mr. Rumsfeld's office on future-oriented strategies.

The Washington Times obtained a copy of the report, titled "Energy Futures in Asia," which was produced by defense contractor Booz Allen Hamilton.
The internal report stated that China is adopting a "string of pearls" strategy of bases and diplomatic ties stretching from the Middle East to southern China that includes a new naval base under construction at the Pakistani port of Gwadar.
Beijing already has set up electronic eavesdropping posts at Gwadar in the country's southwest corner, the part nearest the Persian Gulf. The post is monitoring ship traffic through the Strait of Hormuz and the Arabian Sea, the report said.
Other "pearls" in the sea-lane strategy include:
• Bangladesh: China is strengthening its ties to the government and building a container port facility at Chittagong. The Chinese are "seeking much more extensive naval and commercial access" in Bangladesh.
• Burma: China has developed close ties to the military regime in Rangoon and turned a nation wary of China into a "satellite" of Beijing close to the Strait of Malacca, through which 80 percent of China's imported oil passes.
China is building naval bases in Burma and has electronic intelligence gathering facilities on islands in the Bay of Bengal and near the Strait of Malacca. Beijing also supplied Burma with "billions of dollars in military assistance to support a de facto military alliance," the report said.
•Cambodia: China signed a military agreement in November 2003 to provide training and equipment. Cambodia is helping Beijing build a railway line from southern China to the sea.
•South China Sea: Chinese activities in the region are less about territorial claims than "protecting or denying the transit of tankers through the South China Sea," the report said.
China also is building up its military forces in the region to be able to "project air and sea power" from the mainland and Hainan Island. China recently upgraded a military airstrip on Woody Island and increased its presence through oil drilling platforms and ocean survey ships.
•Thailand: China is considering funding construction of a $20 billion canal across the Kra Isthmus that would allow ships to bypass the Strait of Malacca. The canal project would give China port facilities, warehouses and other infrastructure in Thailand aimed at enhancing Chinese influence in the region, the report said.
The report reflects growing fears in the Pentagon about China's long-term development. Many Pentagon analysts believe China's military buildup is taking place faster than earlier estimates, and that China will use its power to project force and undermine U.S. and regional security.
The U.S. military's Southern Command produced a similar classified report in the late 1990s that warned that China was seeking to use commercial port facilities around the world to control strategic "chokepoints."
A Chinese company with close ties to Beijing's communist rulers holds long-term leases on port facilities at either end of the Panama Canal.
The Pentagon report said China, by militarily controlling oil shipping sea lanes, could threaten ships, "thereby creating a climate of uncertainty about the safety of all ships on the high seas."
The report noted that the vast amount of oil shipments through the sea lanes, along with growing piracy and maritime terrorism, prompted China, as well as India, to build up naval power at "chokepoints" along the sea routes from the Persian Gulf to the South China Sea.
"China ... is looking not only to build a blue-water navy to control the sea lanes, but also to develop undersea mines and missile capabilities to deter the potential disruption of its energy supplies from potential threats, including the U.S. Navy, especially in the case of a conflict with Taiwan," the report said.
Chinese weapons for sea-lane control include new warships equipped with long-range cruise missiles, submarines and undersea mines, the report said. China also is buying aircraft and long-range target acquisition systems, including optical satellites and maritime unmanned aerial vehicles.
The focus on the naval buildup is a departure from China's past focus on ground forces, the report said.
"The Iraq war, in particular, revived concerns over the impact of a disturbance in Middle Eastern supplies or a U.S. naval blockade," the report said, noting that Chinese military leaders want an ocean-going navy and "undersea retaliatory capability to protect the sea lanes."
China believes the U.S. military will disrupt China's energy imports in any conflict over Taiwan, and sees the United States as an unpredictable country that violates others' sovereignty and wants to "encircle" China, the report said.
Beijing's leaders see access to oil and gas resources as vital to economic growth and fear that stalled economic growth could cause instability and ultimately the collapse of their nation of 1.3 billion people.
Energy demand, particularly for oil, will increase sharply in the next 20 years — from 75 million barrels per day last year to 120 million barrels in 2025 — with Asia consuming 80 percent of the added 45 million barrels, the report said.
Eighty percent of China's oil currently passes through the Strait of Malacca, and the report states that China believes the sea area is "controlled by the U.S. Navy."
Chinese President Hu Jintao recently stated that China faces a "Malacca Dilemma" — the vulnerability of its oil supply lines from the Middle East and Africa to disruption.
Oil-tanker traffic through the Strait, which is closest to Indonesia, is projected to grow from 10 million barrels a day in 2002 to 20 million barrels a day in 2020, the report said.
Chinese specialists interviewed for the report said the United States has the military capability to cut off Chinese oil imports and could "severely cripple" China by blocking its energy supplies

posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 03:19 PM
Russia has the techonolgy and China has the money and man power-I don't like it at all.

A militarily joined Russia and China would be an unstoppable foe-conventional or not!

posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 08:52 AM
You know, China is making tons of money through trade with US. Then use Money buying weapons from Russia and EU that could be used against US in the future. Sounds familiar?

posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 12:12 PM
I don't think that the US is as dumb as they choose to appear right now. They are pretty confident in their movements. With the technologies they have not revealed to the world (ahead some 30 years or so?) and bioweapons, a country as populated as China could be devastated without the use of nuclear force at an alarming rate. Just an opinion though, anyone?

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