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The Primary Axiom or Evolution is just a lie and should be replaced by Intelligent Design

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posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 10:23 AM
All good. I have a kid myself and know how it is. Appreciate the reply.

originally posted by: peter vlar
Our first successfully domesticated animal and current holder of the title of "Mans Beat Friend", canines. The evolution of dogs through selective breeding and convergent evolution is included in the Modern Evolutionary Synthesis and studied from a paleontological aspect as well as through the lense of Anthropology.

I'm still not clear on how selective breeding falls under paleontology. But I understand it within the framework of anthropological studies, as it relates to human behavior and survival. However, I'm looking at artificial selection more as a mechanism of evolution of other organisms. In this vein it is not included in the MES as far as I know.

originally posted by: peter vlar
Going all the way back to wild Aurochs and looking into aspects of convergent evolution between dairy cattle and humans and exploring the relationship between this domestication and its subsequent convergence of evolutionary traits surrounding the gene for lactose persistence in European HSS as we try to learn more about this beneficial mutation and how our domesticated cattle managed to evolve alongside us to produce milk more easily digestible while we Simultaneously evolved the gene that allows us to digest lactose beyond toddlerhood.

Epic sentence.
And yeah, I wonder about this phenomenon myself. More so how a beneficial (random) mutation happened right at around the time we needed it to. But don't you mean to say this represents coevolution (rather than convergent evolution)?

originally posted by: peter vlar
In short, it isn't so much that domestication and selective breeding aren't considered a part of MES. It's more that the focus of MES is on natural biological evolution and not on selective breeding guided by human hands.

I understand, and I guess that's why I press this issue. Evolution is evolution. Whether it is directed by humans or not shouldn't matter in the grand scheme of how it happens. The MES and it's proponents have done a good job of creating a distinction and establishing a view of evolution as being a completely blind process — one with no direction or purpose. Well that's a bit of a false notion if we are to take an actual objective approach instead of basing it off a view the world that's been shaped by our anthropocentric biases.

Evolution happens for the benefit of what?

originally posted by: peter vlar
To be clear and succinct though, selective breeding is considered a mechanism of evolution. Darwin actually discussed it and used the example of pigeons who were subject to breeding practices to enhance certain characteristics.

Yes, Darwin only stumbled onto the idea of natural selection thanks to artificial selection.

posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 04:32 PM

originally posted by: PhotonEffect
a reply to: AlienView

Not sure where you beliefs in life lie, but just a friendly word of advice - If you're going to try and put up an argument of any kind against evolution that you want people to take seriously, you can't cite creationist sites as a source. Just can't. It's an immediate kiss of death, and for good reasons. The least of which are propagandist driven agendas and not good science.

Hail the new religion of Science! - Same hypocrisy as the old religions - Dogma rules and if it doesn't fit the going consensus it doesn't exist.

But even here you can preach Genetics is a science - Evolution Is a point of view, an observation, it is not a science

"There's been an incredible censorship in America and throughout the world, but particularly in America where students aren't even allowed to critically think about evolution, the issue of origins; they are not allowed to hear other points of view; they are taught incorrectly about science and taught that evolution is fact."
-Ken Ham

edit on 15-7-2016 by AlienView because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 05:25 PM
a reply to: neoholographic

We are all evolving animals living on an animal planet.

All animals offer different kinds of intelligence, (we) only fixate on language and technology.

The meaning of life is life itself.

Adaptation will always be key.

God... no... not needed.

posted on Jul, 20 2016 @ 02:02 PM
a reply to: AlienView

Calling shenanigans.

Genetic inheritance is beyond proven. Genetic mutations are beyond proven. Natural selection is beyond proven.

Those are the central claims of evolution, all of which are backed by hundreds if not thousands of research papers.

LOL at the Ken Ham quote. He's totally somebody that isn't biased in the least and would never exploit a world view for financial gain. Evolution is not a point of view, it's a hard science, regardless of what BS propaganda sites and liars like Ham claim.

posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 04:43 AM
a reply to: Barcs

OK, I'll put it here too........

Yes, I see how you scientific purests despise Intelligent Design - I understand your dilema - Let us help......

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts"
– Richard Feynman

Being a man of science I'm sure you have heard of Richard Feynman
- And of course you have heard of Albert Einstein.

Einstein Said That All Serious Scientists Believe In Intelligent Design

"Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.

"The scientist's’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection."
– Albert Einstein

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”
― Albert Einstein

You heard of Einsteiin did you not? Even on our home planet which exists in a parallel universe, Einstein is greatly respected
- To some of us his theories and ability to transcend the mediocrity of much of Human stupidity gives us hope that your race
of beings may yet fly with us - The universe we live in thrives on and requires an ever increasing intelligence.
Let go of your petty Evolution and evolve with us

“You are what you think.
All that you are arises from your thoughts.
With your thoughts you make your world.”
– Buddha

"ScienceFictionalism - the way of the Future"
edit on 21-7-2016 by AlienView because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 10:21 AM
Oa reply to: AlienView

So instead of discussing what's wrong with the science that proves evolution actually occurs, You quote mine out of context comments to suit your argument? Why not address the science? If it doesn't actually prices evidence supporting MES then it should've a snap for you to discuss the errors right?

posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 01:33 PM
a reply to: AlienView

This is 2 threads in a row now you ignored everything I said, changed the subject and posted quote mines about Einstein that are completely false and irrelevant. Surely you have something real that isn't a blatant fallacy and lie to present here because thus far your arguments are not convincing in the least.

Plus you post the same nonsensical quote and propaganda link at the bottom of every post. It's a bit redundant.
edit on 7 21 16 by Barcs because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 22 2016 @ 05:54 PM

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts"
– Richard Feynman

"Richard Phillips Feynman (/ˈfaɪnmən/; May 11, 1918 – February 15, 1988) was an American theoretical physicist known for his work in the path integral formulation of quantum mechanics, the theory of quantum electrodynamics, and the physics of the superfluidity of supercooled liquid helium, as well as in particle physics for which he proposed the parton model. For his contributions to the development of quantum electrodynamics, Feynman, jointly with Julian Schwinger and Sin-Itiro Tomonaga, received the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1965......"

Quote spource:

posted on Jul, 22 2016 @ 06:33 PM
Richard Feynman?

Here are some of my favs:

"Physics is to math what sex is to masturbation."

“It doesn't seem to me that this fantastically marvelous universe, this tremendous range of time and space and different kinds of animals, and all the different planets, and all these atoms with all their motions, and so on, all this complicated thing can merely be a stage so that God can watch human beings struggle for good and evil - which is the view that religion has. The stage is too big for the drama.”

"If I could explain it to the average person, I wouldn’t have been worth the Nobel Prize."

“It is not unscientific to make a guess, although many people who are not in science think it is.”

edit on 7 22 16 by Barcs because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 22 2016 @ 10:34 PM
I would wager that this idea probably dates back to one or more philosophers of Ancient Greece - though off hand I do not know who - Still it is one of my favoritc concepts.

How can you get a trully accurate observation of something you are a part of

One can make all types of observations of the Universe and existence - But the fact that you are a part of the universe and all that exists creates a problem - your views are limited by the fact that you are part of what you are viewing.

Same would hold for Evolution - You are part of Evolution and any view you might have of Evolution would automatically be
prejuidiced by your being part of it

A hypothetically advanced species of being might find Man on a level that Man rates a monkey.

“The snake which cannot cast its skin has to die. As well the minds which are
prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be mind.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

“Physiologists should think before putting down the instinct of self-preservation as the cardinal instinct of an organic being. A living thing seeks above all to discharge its strength--life itself is will to power; self-preservation is only one of the indirect and most frequent results.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

“In some remote corner of the universe, poured out and glittering in innumerable solar systems, there once was a star on which clever animals invented knowledge. That was the haughtiest and most mendacious minute of ‘world history’―yet only a minute. After nature had drawn a few breaths the star grew cold, and the clever animals had to die.

One might invent such a fable and still not have illustrated sufficiently how wretched, how shadowy and flighty, how aimless and arbitrary, the human intellect appears in nature. There have been eternities when it did not exist; and when it is done for again, nothing will have happened. For this intellect has no further mission that would lead beyond human life. It is human, rather, and only its owner and producer gives it such importance, as if the world pivoted around it. But if we could communicate with the mosquito, then we would learn that it floats through the air with the same self-importance, feeling within itself the flying center of the world.”

― Nietzsche, On Truth and Lie in an Extra-Moral Sense

“In science, convictions have no rights of citizenship, as is said with good reason. Only when they decide to descend to the modesty of a hypothesis, of a provisional experimental point of view, of a regulative fiction, maybe they be granted admission and even a certain value within the realm of knowledge—though always with the restriction that they remain under police supervision, under the police of mistrust. But does this not mean, more precisely considered, that a conviction may obtain admission to science only when it ceases to be a conviction? Would not the discipline of the scientific spirit begin with this, no longer to permit oneself any convictions? Probably that is how it is. But one must still ask whether it is not the case that, in order that this discipline could begin, a conviction must have been there already, and even such a commanding and unconditional one that it sacrificed all other convictions for its own sake.It is clear that science too rests on a faith; there is no science ‘without presuppositions.’ The question whether truth is needed must not only have been affirmed in advance, but affirmed to the extent that the principle, the faith, the conviction is expressed: ‘nothing is needed more than truth, and in relation to it everything else has only second-rate value.'”
— Nietzsche, The Gay Science

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster.

And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you".

-Friedrich Nietzsche

edit on 22-7-2016 by AlienView because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 23 2016 @ 03:16 PM
Love your selective quote mines. Guess you've got nothing tangible. Keep preaching, brother! Post those irrelevant quotes that falsely try to portray intelligent people as ID supporters. Friedrich Nietzsche now? Get real.

"There is not enough love and kindness in the world to give any of it away to imaginary beings." - Friederich Nietzsche

"Those who cannot understand how to put their thoughts on ice should not enter into the heat of debate."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"The 'kingdom of Heaven' is a condition of the heart - not something that comes 'upon the earth' or 'after death.'
Friedrich Nietzsche

"Mystical explanations are thought to be deep; the truth is that they are not even shallow."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"Faith: not wanting to know what is true."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"In Christianity neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point."
-Friedrich Nietzsche

"God is a thought who makes crooked all that is straight."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"After coming into contact with a religious man I always feel I must wash my hands."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"Is man one of God's blunders? Or is God one of man's blunders?"
Friedrich Nietzsche

"In heaven, all the interesting people are missing."
Friedrich Nietzsche

Yes, it totally sounds like he supports intelligent design, just like Feynman!

Who will be incorrectly portrayed next? Coming soon, the true Christian side of Richard Dawkins! His quotes will prove it!

edit on 7 23 16 by Barcs because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 07:53 PM
a reply to: AlienView

Out of curiosity, can you do more than supply quotes that are not really pertinent to this discussion? Honestly I wonder, as you do a lot of "what ifs" and "so and so said something that has nothing to do with this soever" but hard discussion, in your own words? That would be grand.

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