Negative Outcome in Referendums w.r.t. expand EU to Ukraine express people's concerns of WWIII

The thresshold for getting a referendum is 300k votes.
The thresshold for getting the referendum count is 30% of the voters. That thresshold was barely met with just 32%. Of those that voted, 62% voted against. so, only about 20% of all voters are against, the rest is pro or don't give a rats tail.

I don't see the EU or even dutch politics take this serious for even a moment.
The treaty will get signed.

Interesting detail is that the far left and the far right in dutch politics stood togheter against this treaty. That must have been a first.

Comming elections going to be intresting in the Netherlands.

a reply to: D.Wolf

The thresshold for getting a referendum is 300k votes. The thresshold for getting the referendum count is 30% of the voters. That thresshold was barely met with just 32%. Of those that voted, 62% voted against. so, only about 20% of all voters are against, the rest is pro or don't give a rats tail.

The people that don't care and don't inform themselves and don't go and vote are irrelevant.

The winning number of votes wins, simple as that.

Interesting detail is that the far left and the far right in dutch politics stood togheter against this treaty. That must have been a first.

SP and PVV are both largely anti EU so it's not that strange.

I don't see the EU or even dutch politics take this serious for even a moment. The treaty will get signed.

It seems they are taking it pretty seriously. We'll see what happens, it is a step in the right direction anyway. Things are turning around.

a reply to: DutchMasterChief

The people that don't care and don't inform themselves and don't go and vote are irrelevant.

Part of the general annoyance regarding our mis-leaders I guess. Not that irrelevant at all, still a lot of voters for the next election.

And don't get too disappointed when your vote will be ignored like some greek referendum. Just more water on your mills at the end of the day.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Part of the general annoyance regarding our mis-leaders I guess. Not that irrelevant at all, still a lot of voters for the next election.

I meant they were irrelevant within the argument he was trying to make.

And don't get too disappointed when your vote will be ignored like some greek referendum. Just more water on your mills at the end of the day.

Yes, the anti EU movement is only going to gain momentum.

a reply to: Peeple

so why did they start one?

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Peeple

so why did they start one?

Why did they start a referendum on the Ukraine/EU deal?
Because some people correctly believe the deal is a prerequisite for Ukraine to join the EU, which would lead to an even more expensive EU, more immigration, and a risk to provoking Russia.

Nigel Farage, speaking in the EU Parliament, exposes the EU contempt at the Dutch result...

a reply to: 83Liberty

All I can say is wow! He just completely destroys them, telling it like it is. This is like the best thing I have ever seen coming out of Brussels.

He should be prime minister of Britain imo.

a reply to: The angel of light

Worried about WWIII should Ukraine come into the EU??? WTF

Their response is once again another move towards repeating history.

Alexander Haig: We are trying to de-escalise a war.

Margaret Thatcher: So am I. But you do not do it by appeasement. You increase its chances. You see this table? This was where Neville Chamberlain sat in 1938 when he spoke on the wireless about the Czechs as "far away people about whom we know nothing and with whom we have so little in common". Munich! Appeasement! A world war followed because of that irresponsible, woolly-minded, indecisive, slip-shod attitude and the deaths of 45 million people.

a reply to: Xcathdra

So you're saying if Ukraine doesn't join the EU, there will be WW3 ?

a reply to: 83Liberty

uhm no... it was a observation / response to the op.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Dear Xcathdra,

If Ukraine join EU means as a country immediately will acquire military compromises into the NATO, and that is
something Russia will never accept at all because it is against their best interests in their national security.

Ukraine can at most have certain level of neutrality in between EU and Russia to assure a plausible solution to the crisis, Russia is ready to accept for Ukraine a similar status than the one Austria, Switzerland , Sweden or Finland have, but nothing more.

There is to much of irresponsible rhetoric in the west on these days about this topic, the propaganda does not allow us to see clearly that essentially Russia is defending the same principles of status quo that JFK used to reject the use of Cuba for nuclear missiles in the crisis of 1962.

Neither Americans or Europeans can pretend to extend their military alliance toward a land that is inside the historic strategic perimeter of Russia in the same way that Russia understand that it is impossible to include a military alliance in to a country in the western hemisphere.

If we don't understand this fundamental principle of balance of power we are going to trigger WWIII , a world conflict with nuclear weapons that no body really can win, the devastation would be such that it should represent the annihilation of entire nations, the only portion of Fatima prophecies that remain still unaccomplished.

I don't have any interest to endorse here neither Vladimir Putin, Angela Merkel or Barack Obama, my position is the one in defense of the right of the people to preserve world peace, we must weight that the risk here is several times larger than any apparent strategic advantage we believe we are going to acquire with all this so dangerous political game.

We have already a big issue dealing with the danger that North Korea represents in Far East for our other allies in that region: Japan, South Korea, Phillipines, Taiwan, Tailand, Indonesia, Malasia, Australia.

If we insist to try to gain Ukraine for Nato instead of a more solid and stable peace we are going to push Russia into the only choice they would have:

To launch a military invasion over eastern Europe and to pact with North Korea and only God knows what is going to be the role of other nations around that although remain in silence are of course checking their own possibilities:

1) Iran that has already a lot of tensions with America due to their own nuclear program.
2) China that has been in permanent confrontation with Japan and Taiwan for a corridor of islands that allow them to go directly in to the Pacific basin. Chinese economy is right now in crisis, that is a really bad signal, since recession is a fertile soil to push nations in to wars.

The conflict we have right now with ISIS is a children game in comparison with a War that can emerge if the Ukrainian crisis is not solved in an intelligent way.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

Wrong.. No country can just join NATO. The nation must be located in Europe or N. America. Secondly any current NATO member can block a country from joining. Just as Germany stated they would do if Ukraine tried to join. They had an opportunity in 2010 and declined (Ukraine).

Your so called spheres of influence is an outdated and wrong line of thinking that Putter holds on. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and can decide there own destiny. If you insist on using the irrational line of thought puller uses then Russia must vacate Kaliningrad as its german territory the soviets stole at the end of WWII. Same with the Muriel islands which the USSR stole from Jan. That doesn't include the damage done by soviet occupation of eastern euro for 50 years.

If your going to lecture learn the topic AND history.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Ukraine is a sovereign nation and can decide there own destiny.

As depicted in Nulands "F the EU" and "Jatz is the man".
Deciding their own destiny, eh? Like in elections, held during a civil war?

What a load of utter crap, but it's a perfect example for Parrys excellent analysis:

We are now seeing similar dig-in-the-heels strategies regarding Syria and Ukraine. Though I’m told that U.S. intelligence knows that the Obama administration’s propaganda is no longer operative on the 2013 sarin gas attack outside Damascus and the 2014 shoot-down of the Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 in eastern Ukraine, the storylines won’t be retracted or corrected.

To do so – to say that President Bashar al-Assad’s forces weren’t responsible for the sarin attack and that the Russians weren’t behind the MH-17 catastrophe – would destroy the propaganda narratives that have been useful in justifying the shipment of arms to Syrian rebels and the launching of a new Cold War against Moscow.

If the American people and the world public were informed that they had been misled on such sensitive topics – and that the real guilty parties might include people getting American support – that could devastate U.S. government “credibility” and disrupt future plans.

The ‘Credibility’ Illusion

Spot on, thought I should share.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Dear Xcathdra, it is funny to see you trying to lecture in a topic visibly you don't handle properly.

if you are going to take part in civilized discussion learn norms of decorum, your posts are not only wrong, based on false assumptions, but extremely passionate and virulently violent, it is clear that you launch a verbal personal attack when other member disagrees with you.

By the way I would want to know what Poland or Lithuania thinks on the supposed German claims you are defending so much over Eastern Prussia?,

Since anyway half of that region is right now under Polish administration, as well as Silesia and Pomerania, former German regions until WWII, so if we were going to follow your absurd logic the borders in between various nations must be redrawn.

What you omit, I am not sure if intentionally or just for ignorance on the topic, is that all those lands were taken in the end of XVIII century from Poland and Lithuania by Germany.

Now, concerning the Kuril Islands ( My God you even don't know to properly write its name) they were taken from Russia by Japan in the Russian Japanese war of 1905, in the same way they took a southern half of Sakhalin island for about almost 40 years.

Everybody knows that the origin of the present crisis in Eastern Europe is because NATO is considering the possibility to expand their activities to Ukraine.

If Russia has been as evil as you try to claim possibly the entire Germany would have been erased of the map completely at the end of WWII. Russians never killed cowardly 4 millions or 20 millions of civilians as the Germans troops certainly did on WWI and WWII in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus respectively.

Take a really good course on History is my suggestion, but not with the Nazi Teacher that has poisoned your mind with all these lies, and also ask for professional help to fix all the demonization you have in your head about a nation that has lost more lives in History than any other in conflicts they didn't start.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

The Peace of God to all that belong to the Light,
Dear Readers,

Well, this week we have seen definitively History, this time was not just another referendum more rejecting the expansion of the EU toward the east, but the actual exit of one of the founder nations of the EU in a way that it is still triggering reactions along the world.

The Brexit referendum has clearly stated that there is a lot of disappointment about the path that the EU has followed during the last 3 years, millions of British voters rejected the continuation of their great nation as being part of a Union that clearly is no longer promising, even it is instead of bringing progress to its members causing more harm than benefit.

The turmoil of the Brexit decision is going of course to boost other similar decisions at future, this is without doubt a firm vote of rejection against the expansionist policies of Angela Merkel and of different European leaders that in a so much irresponsible way backed up the coup d'etat in Kiev followed by their insensate support to the civil war and the confrontation with Russia and the embargo that country.

fortune.com...

These are the people that have caused the disaster of the exit of one of the strongest (Ex-) European countries from the Union:


President of the European Council (since 1 December 2014, Donald Tusk)
President of the European Commission (since 1 November 2014, Jean-Claude Juncker)
President of the European Parliament (since 1 July 2014, Martin Schulz)
Presidency of the Council of the European Union (since 1 January 2016, The Netherlands)

Today we have already the resignation of Primer Minister David Cameron as consequence of this result in the referendum.

www.theguardian.com...

David Cameron: “There can be no doubt about the result,” he said. “The British people have voted to leave the European Union and their will must be respected.” But he added that the tortuous negotiations ahead with the EU would require “strong determined and committed leadership” that he felt he could no longer provide. “The country requires fresh leadership to take it in this direction.”

The British people have talked clearly, they want economic results, they want to see progress coming to their nation, they don't want to see more war expenses, no more instability, no more overseas conflicts menacing peace and decreasing the income of the people, causing higher taxes and also no more support to corrupt politicians that are playing a game of power instead to serve to the nations that have elected them. This also a clear message to the leaders of the corrupt coup d'etat and subsequent political crisis in Ukraine that their so ambitious move instead to enlarge the EU has fractured it in an irreparable way.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Of course the loosers are pretty discouraged of the result, they dreamed with a EU larger and stronger, but it was in some way expected, the situation that the crisis of Ukraine has brought to Europe since 2013 has been extremely negative.

www.rollingstone.com...

Thanks for your attention,

The Angel of Lightness

It is now fundamental the the USA prepare a detailed plan on a comprehensive strategic nuclear bombing of the EU, plus a plan for invasion of the continent as Euronazis expect some weird outcome from the brexit process and are blackmailing and armstwisting Turkey as welll. Time to leace NATO and wreck the EU.

So here we are, Brexit has occured, The UK has finally cut it's ties to the UN, and the Ultra Rich are worried about their Money and Power disintegrating.

The problem is not only are the Majority in the hands of the Minority, whilst paying for them and their schemes, but the entire Monetary Systems needs to die. It's based on fake currency first of all and second of all, the only ones benefiting from it are the ones who created this vile system of exchange, and their best buddies.

Yep there's going to be a bit of a shake up before things can be put back in it's upright position.

a reply to: awareness10

I assume you meant EU and not UN?

Secondly the UK has not invoked article 50 of the EU guidelines yet and when they do its about a 2 year process.

a reply to: Xcathdra

EU yes, thankyou.

And yes, it probably will.