Indiana State Trooper Fired For Proselytizing On Duty

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
Is this another 'Christianity is under attack, woe is me' threads?

That is exactly what I was thinking. I can already see the the Fox News commenters screaming that this is another example of "Christians being persecuted".

originally posted by: Metallicus
***snip***

How is someone religious giving me a pamphlet going to cause me harm?
***snip***

When this particular sect is putting pressure on school boards to discontinue or pervert education while asking them to put in place their twisted world views and biggotry, then it becomes everyones problem and a genuine threat to society.

a reply to: lovebeck

I'm with some others--if you don't see a state employee (one in a position of authority) who takes advantage of his job to push his personal religious beliefs on others while in the line of duty, then you don't quite get it.

At all.

And this has zero to do with my own personal beliefs about religion, it has to do with what is appropriate and what is not for a state trooper to do while on the job. It's pretty simple...religion is a personal thing. If he wants to hand out religious pamphlets on his own personal time, more power to him, but not while in uniform and on duty to people who he has just pulled over for possibly breaking the law.

He's preying on the vulnerable, regardless if they have the same religious views or not. That's not acceptable from a public servant in their official capacity...at least, not from a state trooper.

a reply to: Metallicus

People love to be offended these days.

How is someone religious giving me a pamphlet going to cause me harm?

I used to get handed this stuff when I worked downtown and I just tossed it in the nearest trash can, but it didn't occur to me to get angry and sue people or make a big deal out of it. People need real problems because at this point we are creating them out of boredom.

yes, but I usually feel free to walk away from the person, heck shut the door even if they are mid-sentence. I don't think I would feel so free if it was cop who had pulled me over. and well, as far as it not hurting anyone...okay, but well, if I am speeding because I am late for work, and a cop pulls me over, that's fine, he will eat up a little bit of my time lecturing me about how fast I was going and how dangerous it was, checking my license, and writing out a ticket. that is fine, he is doing the job the citizens are paying him to do. but well, if he then holds me up telling me about the 'good news' which if you ever have had the pleasure of having a chat with a jahova witness, well you might get your ear talked off! then he isn't doing his job. he is wasting my time, and the taxpayer's money! he's taking advantage of the fact that he has something very close to a captive audience. now let's say that by the time he has me frustrated and irked about him wasting so much of my time as well as even more frantic about being late, well, I finish my trip to work going even faster than I was before??

once he put on that uniform, that was the state handing out religious literature, which isn't constitutional.

There's definitely the concern that ones reaction to the question and pamphlet might have an influence on how the policeman handles the traffic stop.

He might be a genuinely nice guy, but I wouldn't trust his impartiality.

And I certainly wouldn't trust him to use his disgression to my advantage.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
What amazed me about this is the police union, who seem to be all powerful when it comes to protecting the job of a cop who gets caught shooting an unarmed kid who is laying on the ground defenseless, was apparently powerless in this case. The Fraternal Order of Police has enormous power and influence. Yet, here, not so much.

I don't think he should have been doing that on the job. On his own time, no problem. But not on taxpayer time.

This is my point...At least the point I was trying to make.

Other than him and his Jesus pamphlets, I haven't read or heard of him having any other disciplinary issues.

Shoot a totally defenseless man? That's okay, apparently, around these parts...But a cop spreading The Word? All hell breaks loose, lol.

Would I be uncomfortable if asked about my faith after a traffic stop? Maybe, maybe not. It would depend on the approach and the question. Being a nurse, I've received too many of those little Jesus pamphlets. Some are interesting and some are just so totally ridiculous, it is laughable.

Maybe people here have the wrong idea about me due to the OP...I am NOT religious. Not by a long shot. But, I do believe in something, someone. Being raised in a Christian/Protestant household, that something is Jesus, the Bible, etc. I've seen too much over the years to just explain things away as luck, coincidence, karma, etc. and that is why I believe that there is something after these days on Earth. At least I hope there is and if I have hope, I have faith.

I understand why he was fired, I do. But to go from a reprimand to fired over Jesus pamphlets and spreading The Word? That is just extreme to me, especially given all the freaking maniacs that are hiding behind a badge, committing all sorts of crimes and murders on reg. That's what bothers me...It is ok to CLEARLY commit a homicide, but don't you DARE talk about Jesus!!
If I had my choice between roiled-out, angry, PTSD cop and Jesus cop during a traffic stop?

I'd pick Jesus cop every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

My bet? Deep down, everyone who posted on this thread would too.

originally posted by: lovebeck



Maybe people here have the wrong idea about me due to the OP...I am NOT religious. Not by a long shot. But, I do believe in something, someone. Being raised in a Christian/Protestant household, that something is Jesus, the Bible, etc. I've seen too much over the years to just explain things away as luck, coincidence, karma, etc. and that is why I believe that there is something after these days on Earth. At least I hope there is. I have faith.

Uuhhhmmm..... You might actually be very religious if you believe in jesus, the bible, and your not that offended by a christian proseletyzing state trooper. You are probably, actually......sit down for this.....you are a christian. There i said it.


You might need to rethink your entire position if you identify as non religious.

Isnt this STATE trooper breaking the division that exist between Sanctioning a religon on th e state level? He is a representative of the state and as such should had refrained from handing out tracts and spiritual advice.

originally posted by: yuppa
Isnt this STATE trooper breaking the division that exist between Sanctioning a religon on th e state level? He is a representative of the state and as such should had refrained from handing out tracts and spiritual advice.

Yes. This is def a state official promoting his religion while performing his official duty.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: lovebeck



Maybe people here have the wrong idea about me due to the OP...I am NOT religious. Not by a long shot. But, I do believe in something, someone. Being raised in a Christian/Protestant household, that something is Jesus, the Bible, etc. I've seen too much over the years to just explain things away as luck, coincidence, karma, etc. and that is why I believe that there is something after these days on Earth. At least I hope there is. I have faith.

Uuhhhmmm..... You might actually be very religious if you believe in jesus, the bible, and your not that offended by a christian proseletyzing state trooper. You are probably, actually......sit down for this.....you are a christian. There i said it.

You might need to rethink your entire position if you identify as non religious.

And....I have no problem with that! However, there is a big difference between being religious and believing in something, even if it is the man in the moon. I do not attend church, read the Bible daily, etc. therefore I am not "religious" as religion is a man made type of thing, IMHO.

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Sargeras

So you really think an American police officer that was on the clock would be treated differently if he/she was passing out pro-Islam propaganda? BS.

Nobody will answer that, because religious hypocrisy likes to keep itself hidden. If this were left unchecked, we would have cops from all different faiths and non-faiths using their job as a platform to proselytize. Being atheist, I would be just as irritated if it were a cop handing out "freedom from religion" pamphlets, and questioning peoples faith.

Exactly. I have no problem with people promoting their beliefs in their free time, whether it be pro- or anti-religious literature. We all have different paths to take in life. But there's a time and a place for everything. And if an individual feels that it's always the time & place for it, perhaps they should be a preacher instead.

originally posted by: lovebeck

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: lovebeck



Maybe people here have the wrong idea about me due to the OP...I am NOT religious. Not by a long shot. But, I do believe in something, someone. Being raised in a Christian/Protestant household, that something is Jesus, the Bible, etc. I've seen too much over the years to just explain things away as luck, coincidence, karma, etc. and that is why I believe that there is something after these days on Earth. At least I hope there is. I have faith.

Uuhhhmmm..... You might actually be very religious if you believe in jesus, the bible, and your not that offended by a christian proseletyzing state trooper. You are probably, actually......sit down for this.....you are a christian. There i said it.

You might need to rethink your entire position if you identify as non religious.

And....I have no problem with that! However, there is a big difference between being religious and believing in something, even if it is the man in the moon. I do not attend church, read the Bible daily, etc. therefore I am not "religious" as religion is a man made type of thing, IMHO.

Saying that you believe in jesus and the bible, i assume that you agree with what is stated in the bible about jesus. That most def makes you a believer in a religion, which makes you religious. Which you also say, you have no problem with. You don't need to attend church or read the bible every day to be religious. You simply have to believe the doctrine, which you said you do. (You said you believe the bible and jesus) It's really not that hard.

a reply to: Woodcarver

I think people usually consider "being religious" to mean "practicing the doctrines, teachings, and traditions of said religion". So it's possible for someone to believe in some elements or ideas from a religion without being "religious", particularly if they don't follow the rules that are seen as "pillars" of that religion.

It's like the differences between a practicing Muslim or Christian, a non-practicing Muslim or Christian, and an agnostic who believes in charity and "loving thy neighbor". Even though the agnostic person accepts some of the teachings in those religions, you wouldn't consider him/her religious, would you?

a reply to: lovebeck

I honestly don't think Anyone on ATS is "ok with cops shooting defenceless men" But That whole other kettle of fish,namely abuse of power through violence and murder,is Not The Topic of this thread,ACTUALLY,is it now?

SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE,Hellooo there..

I'm not even American and i'm familiar with that concept.

This is Abuse of Power through trying to convert others to a specific faith,the faith of this STATE TROOPER-whilst ON DUTY. Whichever way you look at it-illegal,inappropriate,unacceptable,Preposterous.


As it is to be a violent,murderous,homocidal cop.

But..this topic is about abuse of power by a state trooper through Illegally harassing people with his religion and trying to convert them While at Work,while On Duty.

Apples and Oranges.

BOTH rotten fruit,in both examples of abuse of power.

originally posted by: lovebeck
So spreading The Word will get a cop fired but murdering innocent individuals gets you a paid vacay during the "investigation" and, in most circumstances, a return to your job??

Abuse of authority. Detaining people when there's no question of law goes beyond what an officer is allowed to do. Murdering innocents is usually claimed to be self defense.

originally posted by: Metallicus
People love to be offended these days.

How is someone religious giving me a pamphlet going to cause me harm?

I used to get handed this stuff when I worked downtown and I just tossed it in the nearest trash can, but it didn't occur to me to get angry and sue people or make a big deal out of it. People need real problems because at this point we are creating them out of boredom.

Because you weren't being legally detained and forced to take it.

Honestly, religious pamphlets are secondary here. If an officer is detaining you for personal reasons rather than related to a law being broken, there's a problem. That's the basis on which he should be fired.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

a reply to: Wardaddy454
Nice deflecting. Not only does that have nothing to do with this topic, but the reaction would be the same, regardless of the ideology or religion being proselytized by a law enforcement officer.

Wasn't deflecting, was causing a stir