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Capitalists - you really don't see a problem?

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posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 12:31 AM
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a reply to: luthier




What can be done to keep regulation from going overboard?


And that right there folks, is the million dollar question.

Crony capitalism has proven to us that capitalism absolutely needs to be kept in check by way of regulations. But the tough balancing act of not letting regulation go overboard is where the tricky part comes in.





posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 12:37 AM
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originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: luthier




What can be done to keep regulation from going overboard?


And that right there folks, is the million dollar question.

Crony capitalism has proven to us that capitalism absolutely needs to be kept in check by way of regulations. But the tough balancing act of not letting regulation go overboard is where the tricky part comes in.



I was hoping to have that discussion about 20 pages ago.

Its my fault though for engaging.

I think it's very difficult but possible. It would need to in the language of an amendment. There isn't much language about the market and I think it's a mistake by the forefathers IMO.

Is it too late however to get Congress to even make the majority vote necessary?



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 12:52 AM
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originally posted by: luthier
I don't know. I am a philosopher (by piece of paper) and it just is part of who I am.

Right, and that is not a bad thing. I think we, or some of us, want to make heads or tails of this, for no other reason than to just know.

The thing is that we might not. In the end it really doesn't matter. Our part is so insignificant like when Semicollegiate said "make gov smaller", can anyone do that? Of course not. Can a group do that? Not if they are too small. What does it take? It takes convincing, convincing of a large portion of the poplulation but, telling them that afterwards your on your own doesn't help and, that is what AC seems to be saying.
edit on 10-4-2016 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 01:41 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

Problem with capitalism us that CEO to worker ratio used to be 40 : 1

Now it is at 400:1



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 01:43 AM
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a reply to: CranialSponge

Sure but also cultural norms seem to have changed for the worst

CEOs and rich want to be 10x richer than before



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 04:01 AM
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Well that's the problem we are now facing.

The cronies have gotten so used to running the show and having everything under their command for the past 3-5 decades that they're not willing to let it go and are fighting every inch of the way against the rest of us trying to bring back a proper balance.

When we removed banking and corporate regulations (little bit by little bit, piece by piece over the decades), we literally opened Pandora's box.

So how the hell do we shove pandora back into the box ?!

Most politicians, senators, congress, parliament, leaders, representatives, lawyers, judges, etc etc won't bloody well budge because they too are paid corporate puppets these days.

It's one hell of a mess we've gotten ourselves into and I think the only way to remedy the situation is a full-blown restart, literally. There just doesn't seem to be any other way out at this point... the corruption roots have become way too deep to dig out.

The entire system needs to crash and burn.



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 07:47 AM
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a reply to: luthier
a reply to: CranialSponge

I know this is counter intuitive, and in a complex and incompletely known world intuition is important,

but what if the regulations are the means of Crony Capitalism?



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 12:17 PM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate
but what if the regulations are the means of Crony Capitalism?

Not exclusive to crony capitalism but of those who have attained financial leverage. The system in which they attained this is irrelevant but it would happen in free market capitalism just the same.



edit on 10-4-2016 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate
a reply to: luthier
a reply to: CranialSponge

I know this is counter intuitive, and in a complex and incompletely known world intuition is important,

but what if the regulations are the means of Crony Capitalism?





Obviously they are the means. That is why its important to use clear language and imparitive.

Same way these crazy religious freedom laws are exploiting constitutional rights.

It doesn't mean the regulations were not put in place to deal with a problem. It means they were exploited by unethical people.

It also does not mean regulations are not necessary. If the solution to the problem is a bad one it doesn't mean there is no problem.



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 01:23 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
a reply to: luthier
a reply to: CranialSponge

I know this is counter intuitive, and in a complex and incompletely known world intuition is important,

but what if the regulations are the means of Crony Capitalism?





Obviously they are the means. That is why its important to use clear language and imparitive.

Same way these crazy religious freedom laws are exploiting constitutional rights.

It doesn't mean the regulations were not put in place to deal with a problem. It means they were exploited by unethical people.

It also does not mean regulations are not necessary. If the solution to the problem is a bad one it doesn't mean there is no problem.


a reply to: daskakik

All regulations are crony. The cronies have the money to work around anything easier than new small businesses. If real damage is done then fraud laws would be broken. All regulation is using gov to limit or destroy competition.

Abusive business practices motivate new competition.
edit on 10-4-2016 by Semicollegiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 01:29 PM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
a reply to: luthier
a reply to: CranialSponge

I know this is counter intuitive, and in a complex and incompletely known world intuition is important,

but what if the regulations are the means of Crony Capitalism?





Obviously they are the means. That is why its important to use clear language and imparitive.

Same way these crazy religious freedom laws are exploiting constitutional rights.

It doesn't mean the regulations were not put in place to deal with a problem. It means they were exploited by unethical people.

It also does not mean regulations are not necessary. If the solution to the problem is a bad one it doesn't mean there is no problem.


All regulations are crony. The cronies have the money to work around anything easier than new small businesses. If real damage is done then fraud laws would be broken. All regulation is using gov to limit or destroy competition.

Abusive business practices motivate new competition.


According to only a very small group of economists who don't have any real world examples of their philosophy working even though the philosophy is nearly 100 years old.
edit on 10-4-2016 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 01:49 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
a reply to: luthier
a reply to: CranialSponge

I know this is counter intuitive, and in a complex and incompletely known world intuition is important,

but what if the regulations are the means of Crony Capitalism?





Obviously they are the means. That is why its important to use clear language and imparitive.

Same way these crazy religious freedom laws are exploiting constitutional rights.

It doesn't mean the regulations were not put in place to deal with a problem. It means they were exploited by unethical people.

It also does not mean regulations are not necessary. If the solution to the problem is a bad one it doesn't mean there is no problem.


All regulations are crony. The cronies have the money to work around anything easier than new small businesses. If real damage is done then fraud laws would be broken. All regulation is using gov to limit or destroy competition.

Abusive business practices motivate new competition.


According to only a very small group of economists who don't have any real world examples of their philosophy working even though the philosophy is nearly 100 years old.


a reply to: daskakik

The large group of economists get paid by the gov and the cronies.

So your argument is to authority. We have regulations because all of the people who's career is paid for by regulations say they are necessary.

The first regulations, the ICC, made cartels possible. Before the ICC members of a cartel could break the cartel agreement and undersell their cartel mates and make big money, which always broke up the cartel. After regulation all the books were open and the cartel biggies could keep everybody in line.


edit on 10-4-2016 by Semicollegiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 01:52 PM
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a reply to: Semicollegiate

If the system is so compromised then a failure WOULD be best



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: Semicollegiate

And your argument is baseless. Nothing more than "only if's" like I said before.



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 01:59 PM
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originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Semicollegiate

If the system is so compromised then a failure WOULD be best


I feel like that sometimes.

It will happen over and over until folks learn economics.

Until some threshold of economic understanding is had by everybody,

The new boss will be same as the old boss.



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 02:00 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Semicollegiate

And your argument is baseless. Nothing more than "only if's" like I said before.


Your argument is "because they said so".

And their argument is "because we said so"

My argument is consistent with human nature.

Your argument believes in saints in gov.
edit on 10-4-2016 by Semicollegiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: Semicollegiate

So what is the best tactic to fight ?



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate
Your argument is "because they said so".

And their argument is "because we said so"

My argument is consistent with human nature.

Your argument believes in saints in gov.

Seems like you can't see who is saying what. Phone?

Humans always end up forming hierarchies so no, your argument is not consistant with human nature.



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 02:09 PM
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originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Semicollegiate

So what is the best tactic to fight ?

Fight human nature? Kill all the humans.



posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 02:15 PM
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originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Semicollegiate

So what is the best tactic to fight ?


Before advice you must sign a release form. (It might me ruinous advice)

The fight, metaphorically speaking, is to try not to use gov. If everyone had that attitude, the gov would wither away.

The gov is ruining the money. Find substitutes for money. Kind of like barter, but more like investment. Have stuff that you could sell right before you want to buy something else.

Material goods should keep their value better than money except fro all of the bankruptcy sales.

If (when) the banks go to negative interest rates, you will want to keep your cash out of the bank.

Cryptocurrency is useful. It could go to zero though.

Live off of the grid attitude until folks can buy stuff without using gov currency.



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