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Capitalists - you really don't see a problem?

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posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:16 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope




The reality though... Corporations will always see what politicians can do for them, and politicians will always do the same. They will always become best friends. It's inevitable in a market such as ours. Do you really think regulations were just made up by government in every case? Or do you think it might just be possible regulations were created by huge corporations to drive out competition? 



What you are describing is not true capitalism though, it's corporatism.

The solution is pretty simple actually, the less power the government has, the less can be bought.

So tell me why we should put more power over the economy into the hands of a system that you agree is corrupt?




posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:16 AM
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a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o




Capitalism is not perfect, but just may be the best way to run things. Free market baby.


There you go. Someone is spreading the lie that a cat is a dog. That capitalism deals in a free-market economy.

Prove your statement on an economical level to be true. Define capitalism in economical terms, please. And what is a free-market? How does a free-market work? And what conditions are needed for a free-market to work?

Thanks in advance.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:17 AM
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Capitalism is not the problem. The problem is how our politicians have sold us out for the last 60 years.
They have manipulated they rules to a point that doesn't even resemble how it all started.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:18 AM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: rockintitz

We don't practice free market capitalism and it's likely we never will again - some argue we did several decades ago, but talks of free market capitalism are just as fantasy as talks of socialist utopias


Exactly. Dreams. So which dream do we want to dream. A dream based on the idea of the workers owning and operating the means of production, or a dream that is based on en economic system that at it's core relies on an ever increasing and voracious need to expand or die.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:18 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I agree.

Free market capitalism could be amazing. Absolutely fantastic - if everyone knew their part and didn't infringe on others. I dream of such a market.

Less patents, smaller government, fair trade laws ensuring quality of life to those who produce goods, higher tarrifs in some cases.

If the consumer was taught that they are the engine of this economy.. That we produce, provide, we are the supply, we are the demand, we are everything... We could have a great economy.

We are taught that we are nothing, though. That we are at the mercy of, and in debt to, to big overlords of our country. That purchasing power is a myth.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:21 AM
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a reply to: Bluntone22

You're only looking at one side of the equation. There are the people who are buying our government as well, all because capitalism promotes profit above all else. If profit is the only thing that matters then why wouldn't these corporations buy politicians to make them more profit? It's fair game because it brings profit to their company.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: rockintitz

I'm actually more a collectivist than anything. I realize it's not exactly realistic, though.

Something more like.. The workers collectively have ownership within a company. No shareholders to appease to, no stock market to manipulate - just workers advocating for the company they have an interest in and are dedicating a large amount of their life to.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

The flaw with capitalism is the enivetable oligarchy that comes with wealth consolidation. It's also the elimination of jobs through efficiency and outsourcing.

These factors need to be considered within the political structure to manage the problems. The free market will not fix these problems.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:24 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1


You mean like the guy from Iceland that just resigned?
Corruption exists everywhere.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:24 AM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I love the idea of the workers owning and operating the means of production - I mean, they already do operate it. From step one of growing a crop to step ten of selling a bag of something on a shelf, it's only the workers, never the owners that made all of that possible. The workers simply lack the reward in this situation, often given mere pennies on the dollar compared to their supervisors, the supervisors who barely did a thing to make a product possible.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




I agree, but it's not just limited to capitalism, it extends to all forms of economy.


There never was another form of economy ever. Not in Russia, not in China or anywhere else. Just some attempts of european countries to establish a different system than capitalism, which failed in the long run, for reasons that would be off-topic to mention here.




Humans are greedy and no matter what system is in place we will always find a way to take advantage of it for our own benefit even at the expense of others.


No. Greedy people are greedy. And humans are fed so many lies on all levels so they are hardly able to decern by now what is right and what is wrong, what is a twisted truth compared to a whole truth.




That's human nature when money is involved, we want to be happy and we find happiness in material possessions for the most part.


No. It's not human nature. It's the nature of those who lie and steal and can affort to do so, because they think themself as being above the law and above normal human decency. And couldn't care less about anybody else but themselfs.




What gets on my nerves are those who think one economic system is better than others when that is flat out wrong for the reasons I mentioned above. People will ALWAYS find a way to corrupt a system to their personal benefit.


No. People are just people, messed up intellectually, spiritually and emotionally, by those who benefit from a dumped down human population, for the sake of pointing fingers at their "victims" of deception. THAT is what is the case.



edit on 7-4-2016 by Willingly because: typo



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: luthier

Short and to the point, I like it and agree.

It would be hard to manage these problems though, I happen to agree with enlightened, if the only thing that matters is profit, whatever needs to happen to increase profit, will happen.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope




Something more like.. The workers collectively have ownership within a company. No shareholders to appease to, no stock market to manipulate - just workers advocating for the company they have an interest in and are dedicating a large amount of their life to.


You mean like employee-owned companies?

They do exist now, and can even in a free market.
edit on 7-4-2016 by rockintitz because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:27 AM
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a reply to: Bluntone22

That was my point in my original post, corruption is inevitable in any economic system, but you seem to only be looking at one half of the problem. Yes, politicians are accepting money but what about the ones giving them the money and writing our laws? They're just as guilty and if they didn't have any money to give, the politicians wouldn't have any money to take.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:29 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

Marx believed wealth consolidation would lead to a worker revolution. Like f the owner he has no idea how to produce let's just barter amongst ourselves.

Unfortunately he also believed in a dictaroship after a workers revolt during the transitional period.

Capitalism would be fine if they could make laws that absolutley seperate political power and lobby influence. As well as stronger tariff laws to protect the workforce. It's see as intervention in the market but it seems obvious it's required.

The remaining problem would be effiency issue with automation. However there are solutions with expanding markets particularly in space exploration and mining IMO.
edit on 7-4-2016 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:29 AM
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a reply to: Willingly

I used to empathize, or agree with your line of thinking... I don't really believe people are who they are, though. I believe the homeless, humble and kind man could just as easily become a ruthless human trafficker addicted to money. It depends on if that person has any amount of conviction, if they have roots sunk far in the ground defining who they are and who they are not.

As for most of us? I think most could easily be a nice caring citizen one year, a ruthless ceo that will do anything for profit the next.

Sorry for the cynicism.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:33 AM
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a reply to: luthier

Are laws really followed though?

"life, liberty, and happiness"

We take lives all the time. We blame isis or AL queda or whomever we want at the moment but it really comes down to.. There's lots of oil in the middle east, and oil is one of the biggest markets in the world. So we deny while countries and regions life, liberty, and happiness for profit.

Following laws.. Would require an ethical government to enforce them, rather than a government owned by those breaking the laws.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

This is true. It would require a revolution perhaps from time to time. Could be glorious rather than bloody.

I think if it were set up this way to begin with we would have a better chance. The emphasis on the constitutional change would have to be to protect the workforce with as little market intervention as possible and to keep a seperarion of corperation and state.
edit on 7-4-2016 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:36 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I suppose the question is, is any system less corrupt? Or does any system stifle or allow corruption to thrive?



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:37 AM
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a reply to: luthier

"separation of corporation and state"

Should definitely be an amendment.

No corporate money in politics.
No corporate lobbyists.




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