U.S. Steel Set To Layoff A Quarter of Its Non-Union Workforce

Those jobs will be replaced by more burger flippers so we can claim we lost no jobs.

It's just the same here in the UK, our largest steel works Port Talbot in Wales is losing one million pounds a day. The owners have put it up for sale and say things can't go on indefinitely as they can't compete with the Chinese steel. We've had loads of steel plants close recently, sure we have nothing like the steel industry in the eighties but still have some production, the way things are going it's all going to go. The Commies lost on the USSR front but are winning on the Chinese one

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

It would be like if while "fighting" Russia we sent all of our jobs/industry to Russia.

a reply to: onequestion

Just ask around Obama has really turned this country around. Once again, Trump is right about the economy. Go figure someone with billions of dollars in working assets knows what's going on in the economy.

If you think that sort of thing has only been happening during Obama's reign, then you haven't been paying attention for the last 6 decades.

And if you think that Trump has all the answers that the other previous 10 or so presidents haven't, then you really have been drinking the Trump-Is-Gawd koolaid.

originally posted by: damwel
That's what happens if you aren't in a union. If you don't see how much better the economy is since Obama took over 7 years ago you were probably too young to remember what Bush and the republicans did to the economy and jobs with allowing companies to outsource everything overseas.

REALLY?????

So when Bethlehem steel went out of business it was because their workers were non-union?

When the automotive jobs and factory closures in detroit were because the workers were non union?

Cut the attempt at "union fixes all" garbage...
It is WRONG but more importantly IRRELEVANT TO THE OP point.
This isnt a UNION/NON UNION thread and I just showed in relation to the steel industry your point a union could have protected the jobs is PURE QUANO

Also others have pointed out it was CLINTION (a UNION SUPPORTED DEMOCRAT in case you forgot) THAT SIGNED NAFTA that lead to the factories going oversees (btw SOMETHING PEROT WARNED AND WANTED TO AVOID).

Something the DEMOCRATS not only supported, voted for as majority but EVEN HAD BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS AND OBAMA did NOTHING TO STOP, CORRECT, OR CHANGE.

Lastly if the economy is so good under obama why do we need a forced increase in min wage, why when a factory does have jobs the people applying are around the block (so to speak) , and that MORE PEOPLE THAN EVER UNDER BUSH are on foodstamps?

Why dont you go to those unemployed bethlem steel plant workers, those retired workers who pensions are now NON EXISTENT, and those workers the OP posted report loosing their jobs and tell them that under obama the economy is doing great...


bet their responses could not pass the filter here.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: onequestion



If you think that sort of thing has only been happening during Obama's reign, then you haven't been paying attention for the last 6 decades.

And if you think that Trump has all the answers that the other previous 10 or so presidents haven't, then you really have been drinking the Trump-Is-Gawd koolaid.

By your own statement it IS HAPPENING UNDER OBAMA WATCH.

So by logic/deny ignorance obama HAS DONE NOTHING TO MAKE IT BETTER.

So trump as a BUSINESSMAN WHO HAS NOT ONLY BEEN A SUCCESS BUT RECOVERED FROM FAILURES IN BUSINESS has no ideas to fix this....

yea now who is drinking the kool-aid.

Sorry but obama , democrats, and establishment republicans had their chance...AND BLEW IT.

Now its time for US VOTERS to give SOMEONE NEW A CHANCE.

You know that whole MAJORITY CHOOSES thing.

a reply to: scrounger

Why dont you go to those unemployed bethlem steel plant workers, those retired workers who pensions are now NON EXISTENT, and those workers the OP posted report loosing their jobs and tell them that under obama the economy is doing great... 

Yep.
I know a guy that 'retired' from one of those kind of companies with a nice pension....
He is working a job now.... The company squandered the pension funds and he is out of luck.
Where is the union?
They got their money. They don't need him any more.

Look both Britain and the USA have spent the last couple of centuries pushing for (and getting) a truly global economy. This is a simple extension of that, we are both suffering due to a glut of cheaper product.

All this talk of not level playing fields - you do realise there are some extortionate tariffs placed by the US on other imported goods, right? It works both ways. Sorry to break it to you guys but you are like us in that, aside from high end manufacturing, you have nothing the rest of the world can't do better and cheaper. So further increasing extortionate tariffs would, i am sure, result in a drop in other exports as other trade blocs took reciprocal measures. For example, if Chinese steel is hit with further high tariffs, why would China not respond by simply upping production and therefore destroy US / UK steel even more? The "hurt us and we will hurt you" mentality.

This isn't particularly a dig at the US either, by the way. It is more a reflection the both the UK and the US really need to sort out the quality of manufacturing if we are to avoid this in other areas too.

a reply to: Flavian

I think you miss the reason for tariffs as a tool in the trade between countries.

If you are using it as a protectionist policy then I do agree your premise that increasing ours against any country is counterproductive and will lead to a "tariff war"

But in many cases where we hold deficits in trading it is the only tool for leveling the playing field and a negotiation tool.

Look at this case from the 80's-90's.

Back then japan was the powerhouse in electronics (and some other areas)...
they were beating us badly in many areas and creating a trading deficit.

But our farmers were beating the pants off them in rice production and apple production.

Had they just believed in free trade where we were deficient in one area our farmers could have realistically made up for it thus being more (nothing is perfect) equal.

But Japan put extreme tariffs on rice and apples to protect their farmers.
So our recourse should have been to put tariffs on their products to the level they did on ours.
this a more equal balance would have been achieved.
If not the "negotiation" portion of it comes in where we offer to remove/reduce ours if they do the same.

We didn't and paid the price on american workers.

This is what we need to do today.

Not punitive or protectionist but level field and negotiation.

If they refuse and enter this "war" all that will happen is short term yes we will hurt...but so will they.

Eventually business is business and some equilibrium will happen or the item that caused the deficit will become economically viable to produce locally.

Now the second part is long term and short term will be painful.
But in the long run (something US businesses have FORGOTTEN DUE TO THE INSTANT RETURN ATTITUDE sadly we have adopted) we do win and grow stronger.

Sadly people in alot of western countries have fallen into the "instant gratification" idea of profits/business instead of the smaller long term thinking.

a reply to: scrounger

I completely understand tariffs and the need for them. However, the simple fact remains that US Steel tariffs are much higher than those in the rest of the world. If these are upped (again), what do you think the Chinese response will be?

Actually though, i do not think in the long run it will be a major problem. China already has a problem with steel production and industry lay offs are already occuring in China. Chinese government involvement will also fade over time (can't afford to keep subsidising industry for ever now it is fully incorporated in the global trade game). Over time, prices will therefore rise which will even the field out.

You have to bear in mind that China plays by slightly different rules at the moment in that it is currently undergoing it's industrial revolution and changing from agriculture to industry. When you look at the cost in the Soviet Union when it tried to undertake similar advances in such a short time frame, there will be inevitably be major problems to face along the way. Given China's strength and position in the world, it is in the interests of other nations for this to occur as soon as possible - in my view, this is why China seems to "get away" with things other nations don't usually. They are basically trying to get China fully operational and integrated as soon as possible, and when that happens some of the problems will reduce significantly.

For example, when this time occurs, workers in China will be on much higher wages. As such, Chinese firms won't be able to produce as cheaply meaning that steel workers in the UK and US (providing there are still any left!) will be much more competitive.

Sorry if this is a bit convuluted - i am currently trying to get a major project completed whilst at work so am really only paying about 30% attention to what i am typing! I will get back to this thread when i have time to do it justice rather than ramble........

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Those jobs will be replaced by more burger flippers so we can claim we lost no jobs.

Exactly. Also Obama will be the first to tout it as proof that the economy is doing just fine.

Well hey, that's the nature of capitalism, ain't it? Find the cheapest source possible to save a buck, and BE the cheapest source possible to rake it in when everyone flocks to you to save that buck. Of course, not having stiff enough tariffs doesn't help any, but there's that whole bit about finding cheaper sources to remember. America's kind of obsessed with cheapie cheap.

Edit: Thanks Flav, for pointing out our existing tariffs & the ramifications for upping them.I guess the bottom line is if you want to play ball in Capitalism Park, be willing to lose some games.


Second Edit: And before anyone has an aneurysm, no, I'm not condoning this. I'm just pointing out that with our way of life, we have a huge flaw with our expectations for uncontested residence at the top of the totem pole within it.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Those jobs will be replaced by more burger flippers so we can claim we lost no jobs.

I think they are building robots to replace burger flippers now..this can't end well.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
I have a friend that sells steel coils. I think he is called a broker but I call him a middle man.
Anyways, he says Chinese steel is killing the market and is usually junk. He sold 20% more product last year but made less money because of the low prices.

China has a huge advantage and it's not just labor prices. A company over there does not buy the raw materials like the most other countries. The government owns the natural resources and basically gives it to manufacturers.
They also don't have a crap ton of regulations to deal with such as insurance, social security, osha, etc etc.
It's hard to compete with someone that's playing by a different set of rules.

What China and several other nations for that matter do, is they use state resources to subsidize the industries they want to do well. It's impossible to compete with that unless you also do the same thing, or you completely ban trade with them.

The end game of all of this is that even if we do utilize tariff's to stop the international side of this problem, individual states are going to start subsidizing corporations to set up in their state, and we can't tariff interstate commerce.

US steel needs to do the same thing small town businesses do when WalMart comes into town.
Carry things Walmart never would carry.

There are many special steels and alloy steels the the chinese do not make.

Levi's had plants in Texas before NAFTA paying roughly $10 per hour. After NAFTA, they moved their plants to Mexico, paying $2 or $3 per hour. Then they said, "labor is killing us." Now they are made in places like Vietnam. Free trade ain't about spreading democracy; it is about what is good for the bottom line. Someday, we will all be wards of the state making the equivalent of $8 per hour, all because of the lie that is called "free trade."