I'm not sure I trust fate, but I believe it exists.

When I say I believe fate exists, I am just guessing.
But there are events in my life where it seemed fate helped me, and there were events where it lead me into bad times.

An example of helpful fate.
I had a BA in English. No jobs available. I went to my country's employment agency and was sent on a job based on my background to a position of teachers aide. I then became a teacher as a result.

An example of bad fate. I walked into a small third world Asia restaurant. It became a nightmare over time.

So who is manipulating things? Are just bad things being manipulating?

a reply to: droid56

If fate exists why do we jail criminals? Wouldn't fate imply a sadomasochist creator being who torments living creatures for nothing more than the thrill of suffering. I prefer free will over fate at least in that scenario I have some control over my life, and also am not being laughed at for the misery and grief that we all suffer.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: droid56

If fate exists why do we jail criminals? Wouldn't fate imply a sadomasochist creator being who torments living creatures for nothing more than the thrill of suffering. I prefer free will over fate at least in that scenario I have some control over my life, and also am not being laughed at for the misery and grief that we all suffer.

Good way to look at things.
Sometimes its seems there are simply a good or bad choice to make and sometimes when what we call ''fate'' comes into play there isn't a way of telling whether a choice is good or bad, like going to a crowded restaurant and the item you ordered sucks, has a hair in it, your on a time schedual and can't reorder and then a madman enters the place... how could you have known these things were going to happen?... it was fate.

a reply to: droid56

We can both choose our fate (have free will) and be predestined to our fate.

If infinity exists then it is all things (there would be nothing left for it to not be), so if viewed, or measured, it would be deterministic.

If infinity exists, AND we exist within it, then we can both choose our fate, and be predestined to it.


We exist within God.

Fate as in 'it was meant to be' does not imply choice to me. If you surrender to fate you surrender your free will or at the very least undermine it.
Fate to me is just one specific outcome given a special meaning inspired by a certain belief.

So you are saying you had no free will in making your op post.

Fate determined you were going to.

If there is free will, then there is infinity, and destiny (they all kind of go hand in hand.)

Free will implies infinite potential >
infinite potential implies infinity >
infinity implies all things as a singularity (infinite measure being within infinity)>
a singularity must be determinable (fate / measured)

So, if there is no fate, then there is no free will, and what we are experiencing is actually more akin to randomness or chaos.

But I think we can rule out any such things as randomness or chaos [as they are commonly defined] because those things need causation and causation needs to be initiated by something that does not have a cause. If causation is not initiated by something without a cause, it would be its own cause (it would be paradoxical). So basically, randomness and chaos are self-defeating - they end in a paradox...

What is that thing that can cause causation but itself not be the effect of another cause? It's free will - by its very definition, free will is will that can do whatever it wants, with infinite potential, and without cause. So we're just back to free will again (and fate).