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Obama smacks down Trump’s border wall plan

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posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 12:07 PM
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originally posted by: yuppa

If a illegal trys to send a WU then they should be held and turned over to ICE.
I dont care if they got a family back home. same as they dont care about mine.


So now we are requiring everyone to carry around their ss card, huh? Genius. And I suppose we'll have to swear in the poor minimum wage worker at the service counter at the local Kroger or Walmart who does WU, so he or she can detain people.

Amazing the stupidity of it all.

And that wall? I don't care if Trump was elected tomorrow, it never gets built.




posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 12:09 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

Sorry, but you are so engaged with your own lack of conscience, it seems useless to attempt further discourse with you.

Enjoy the box you inhabit.



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 12:11 PM
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a reply to: YouSir
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Off topic is allowed there. I specifically made a topic dedicated to me, for people like you.

You're going to get banned if you think anywhere else is a playground for exclusively talking about me. The moderator posts in every topic I'm in kind of suggests that. Just fair warning, as I stop talking about me here, because it applies to us both.

I never directly called you anything until you took vague concepts I made personally.

It's conceptually racist to not also build a Canadian Wall. How am I supposed to know you're racist? It's the internet and this is ATS, you could literally be an Alien, and I don't mean an ilegall one.
edit on 6-4-2016 by imjack because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: gator2001

Conservatives are the most hypocritical, not you personally (I don't know you) ... easiest low-hanging fruit to pick as evidence... constantly railing about smaller government, less intrusion into people's lives ... yet, constantly in favor of new laws/controls/regulations/invasions as long as it satisfies a prescribed "hot button" issue as fed by the right-wing media.

A little stretch up the tree but not much ... advocating for low-cost business practices (cheap undocumented labor) that maximize profits ... until one gets caught.

Etc. etc.

Oh, and for the record THIS is not "a wall, a big wall, across the whole southern border" by any reasonable means:



Amends the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 to direct the Secretary to provide at least two layers of reinforced fencing, installation of additional physical barriers, roads, lighting, cameras, and sensors extending: (1) from ten miles west of the Tecate, California, port of entry to ten miles east of the Tecate, California, port of entry; (2) from ten miles west of the Calexico, California, port of entry to five miles east of the Douglas, Arizona, port of entry (requiring installation of an interlocking surveillance camera system by May 30, 2007, and fence completion by May 30, 2008); (3) from five miles west of the Columbus, New Mexico, port of entry to ten miles east of El Paso, Texas; (4) from five miles northwest of the Del Rio, Texas, port of entry to five miles southeast of the Eagle Pass, Texas, port of entry; and (5) 15 miles northwest of the Laredo, Texas, port of entry to the Brownsville, Texas, port of entry (requiring fence completion from 15 miles northwest of the Laredo, Texas, port of entry to 15 southeast of the Laredo, Texas, port of entry by December 31, 2008).


HR 6061 109th Congress

To be more specific:



The US and Mexico share a common border of about 2,000-miles (3,200-km). As of February 10, 2012, the Department of Homeland Security had completed 651 miles of fencing out of nearly 652 miles mandated by Congress, including 299 miles of vehicle barriers and 352 miles of pedestrian fence.


www.globalsecurity.org

Hint: One version is somewhat reasonable and mostly completed ... one is ludicrous, absurd and unnecessary.


Thanks for some fine details of the wall that was built. Yes...I know it doesnt cover the whole border. I mentioned it because it was talked about years ago, voted on, and built. My point is that Trump is not the first to say this. People say he is an idiot now, but the thought has already been done and Hillary and Obama voted for it.

651 miles is pretty long. I have seen pics of it and it looks like a nice wall...lol Some areas do have the double layer.

I dont know. Maybe Trump would have gotten a better response if he just said "lets complete the wall we already started." He does have a huge ego and maybe envisioned a Trump Plaza style wall with large T's adorning it every 100 ft.

Me personally. I just think that illegal immigration needs to be addressed. This has been going on for a long time and I blame the dipsticks in DC for all of it, whether they are blue or red or with polka dots. I get glimpses of what is going on in Europe and I seriously, seriously, seriously do not want to see that happen to America.

Give me a lefty that will seriously address border security and I will vote for him/her. I can give and take some. To me...border security is very dangerous for America right now.



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 12:27 PM
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a reply to: gator2001

My point is that Border Fencing is not the same as "a wall, a great wall" that "get's 10 ft higher" everytime anyone (particularly Mexico) points out that Trump's idea is ridiculous ... again:

Border fencing is not the "great wall" that Mr. Trump likes to crow about.

You are correct, Mr. Trump is not the first to say we need to secure our southern borders ... we've been doing that for almost a century: Border Patrol History

Illegal immigration is being addressed. In fact, Mr. Obama's Administration is deporting illegals in record numbers.

U.S. deportations of immigrants reach record high in 2013 - Pew Research

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "lefty" ... but Hillary Clinton is pretty well known as being fairly hawkish ... and also from her campaign website:



Conduct humane, targeted immigration enforcement. Hillary believes immigration enforcement must be humane, targeted, and effective. She will focus enforcement resources on detaining and deporting those individuals who pose a violent threat to public safety, and work to ensure refugees who seek asylum in the U.S. have a fair chance to tell their stories.


Immigration Reform - hillaryclinton.com


edit on 6-4-2016 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 12:31 PM
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Dude, with satellites, drones and other tech -- we can keep an eye on the border without a stupid wall.

A huge wall is just some juvenile over-compensation thing ... that appeals to people insecure with their masculinity.

It's not unlike the tiny 4 foot tall guy driving a huge monster truck to try and earn "respect". Its sad, pathetic and ridiculous.



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: gator2001

You seem to be taking everything personally ... the post that you're responding to was addressed to everyone, not you.

Do you ever hear Mr. Trump talk about involving Congress? Does he talk about supporting legislation through Congress on any of these issues? If so, could you quote that, because so far, to my knowledge, he hasn't. He has repeatedly and consistently spoken as if the thinks the President is like a CEO who makes arbitrary decisions on his own that are unquestioned.

I refer to any of the 99% nonsensical dribble that makes up the average Trump Stump Speech.

What exists now, as I pointed out as a result of the legislation that you're trying to make equivalent to the Trump Great Wall nonsense, is border fence with surveillance equipment. Have you actually read what HR 6061 mandated? I linked it above.

Carter did not "ban all Iranians:" Snopes



In a broader context of an ongoing, direct conflict between Iran and the United States, Carter announced immediate sanctions on Iran, which included a cessation of diplomatic relations, a prohibition on trade, and assessment of previously-frozen Iranian Government assets. Along with several other sanctions, Carter ordered the cancellation of Iranian-U.S. visas and a moratorium on new visas, with exceptions for humanitarian and otherwise compelling situations.


For the record, Iran is a Sovereign State ... Islam is a religion. Not the same.


Exuse me? Your post was directed at everyone and thanked everyone in advance for answers. I said I was not arguing, just trying to answer. I guess your post wasnt for everyone, as you say. You are just rude.

Look..."cancellation of visas and moratorium of new visas." What does that mean to you? Do you know what "cancellation" and "moratorium" mean? What better word than ban represents what that says? What word? Tell me. Enlighten my ignorant self. That is a ban and everyone that can read knows it.

You strike me as the type of person that would argue with me if I said the sun came up this morning. You would be THAT person. You would say "actually...it is the earth's rotation around the sun. The sun is not actually moving." Yeah...you would be THAT person.

Islam is a religion? No...when did that happen? The principle is the same: cancelling and denying visas to a certain set of people.



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom



Dude, with satellites, drones and other tech -- we can keep an eye on the border without a stupid wall.


... true, and neither do we need to kill them, or indiscriminately blow off their legs. (Like they did in Boston. I think we can manage fine without that legacy.)



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 01:06 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Dude, with satellites, drones and other tech -- we can keep an eye on the border without a stupid wall.

A huge wall is just some juvenile over-compensation thing ... that appeals to people insecure with their masculinity.

It's not unlike the tiny 4 foot tall guy driving a huge monster truck to try and earn "respect". Its sad, pathetic and ridiculous.


I would totally agree with you on this if they would actually agree do it and do it right. Right now there are 1000 less border agents than what they are allowed. They have to have the manpower to go where the tech shows them. I know...make droids with jetpacks and laser beams...oh, and wrist ties



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: gator2001

And on top of that, if we cracked down on employers and companies willing to hire illegals -- America wouldn't be such a tempting place to sneak into.

How about we address the REAL ISSUE?

Let's make America not such a tempting place for illegals before we do moronic things like build a wall? Hm?

I mean, building a wall to keep out illegal immigrants is like getting liposuction every few months, and continuing to eat junk food. You're going to keep getting fat if you eat junk food. If you stop eating crappy, unhealthy food -- you wouldn't need liposuction to be skinny.



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 01:16 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

Just to play devils advocate here, aren't you basically suggesting that you deliberately make America a worse place to be than the place they're coming from, to stop them coming? So really this would mean either becoming as bad as the place they are from, or worse, and seeing Americans fleeing in the opposite direction


And what happens when you have an equilibrium where people can have a similar quality of life in America or south of the border? You end up with Europe, where people are pretty much equal wherever you go (at least in many respects, when it comes to opportunity)

Again, I don't think this appeals to the average brain dead Trump voter, their problem is the "foreigner", ignoring all common sense and all rational thinking. They just want that "enemy" to rail against and blame for everything wrong in their country - when in actual fact the things that are wrong in their country are mostly their own fault, or just in their own heads.
edit on 6-4-2016 by Rocker2013 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 01:37 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

Yep...it all goes back to DC to make it happen, well and the people that make the droids with jetpacks and laser beams.

You know...if the government can make a place like area 51, where nobody with a brain would try to access, they can make a secure border...if they wanted to.



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 02:07 PM
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originally posted by: gator2001

Exuse me? Your post was directed at everyone and thanked everyone in advance for answers. I said I was not arguing, just trying to answer. I guess your post wasnt for everyone, as you say. You are just rude.


I might be, but I'm not being rude to you. I'm only pointing out that on two occasions you've responded to something directed generally as if it was directed to you personally. That's not "being rude" that's merely "stating the facts."

Sorry if you don't like that.


originally posted by: gator2001

Look..."cancellation of visas and moratorium of new visas." What does that mean to you? Do you know what "cancellation" and "moratorium" mean? What better word than ban represents what that says? What word? Tell me. Enlighten my ignorant self. That is a ban and everyone that can read knows it.



As a matter of fact, I do know what those words mean. What they do not mean is "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on"

Carter's actions were directed at the citizens of a country that had taken specific actions against the United States. Trump's stupidity is directed at 1.6 billion people.


originally posted by: gator2001

You strike me as the type of person that would argue with me if I said the sun came up this morning. You would be THAT person. You would say "actually...it is the earth's rotation around the sun. The sun is not actually moving." Yeah...you would be THAT person.



I'm not interested in what you imagine me to be, nor am I interested in your metaphors. If you want to discuss the facts of the matter, I'll be glad to do what, and that is all I have done here. If you don't like facts, or don't like your apparent misunderstrandings of facts pointed out, I'm indeed not the best conversation partner for you here. So, gently, if you don't want to talk to me ... just stop.


originally posted by: gator2001

Islam is a religion? No...when did that happen? The principle is the same: cancelling and denying visas to a certain set of people.


No, the two ideas are not the same in any respect, not in terms of reasoning, definition, or scope.

Iranians in 1979 ... 37.47 million people. Recognizable and specific group of people whose country had taken criminal actions against Americans.

Muslims in 2016 .... 1.6 billion people, from 50 some odd countries ... the great majority of whom have never done anything to America or Americans.

/shrug



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen


Ummm...this is all getting to be a little tiring...


lowest common denominator mouth breathers



You'd have to be dense



Just admit you're racists



you're still literally a moron



backwards logic



backwards morals



you wouldn't rather kill people



you'd be the first person to send someone to Mexico solely on the color of their skin



YOU PEOPLE



simple minded



idiotic voters



racists don't know their racists



backwards



the stupidity



people like you.



appeals to people insecure with their masculinity.



sad, pathetic and ridiculous



brain dead Trump voter



ignoring all common sense and all rational thinking


Yes...these are the wonderful thoughts of our community members on the left...

Thank you all so much for defining those who don't agree with you in such a tolerant fashion...and this is just in this one thread...

I'm unsure how the rest of my fellows feel about this...I for one find it more amusing and enlightening...than anything else...

Bravo...keep that tolerance and compassion flowing...

Here's some more...


just because you don't like brown skinned people




YouSir
edit on 6-4-2016 by YouSir because: I felt the Bern...



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: YouSir

So ... you don't like hearing what folks on the left have heard for years?

Imagine that. LOL.

And oh my god can we get some other foil argument besides whining about "tolerance and compassion" ... who here has said anything about that in regard to the topic of Trump's absurd ideas about "building a great wall"?

Here's an idea ... rather than complaining about how others express themselves, why don't you jump and actually address the issues rather than the constant commentary about other posters, imagined political positions, et. al.?

Unless, of course, diverting the thread is what you're here for?

There's plenty of facts here, and more than a few actual opinions ... I myself have posted plenty of both.

Trying and failing to critique the word choices of others is just ... what's a word that might not offend you ... specious?



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 02:34 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: yuppa

So if we replace the illegals with hi-tech areoponic and hydroponic systems, that still doesn't give jobs back to Americans. One guy can operate an automated greenhouse.

Illegals are't stealing jobs, they're taking advantage of opportunities US companies and business owners are providing.

If people in America stopped hiring them, they'd stop coming here.

The fact is though -- America's economy RELIES on cheap labor to function. Americans would simply not be able to afford many things if the cheap labor went away.

What's ironic is Republicans have ALWAYS been all about cheap labor and somehow figuring out a way to get immigrants into the USA and working for peanuts. It's good capitalism!


True,but w e need to stop enabling them entirely. UNLESS they are all willing to submit to tracking devices (only active in the US) In place of a classic green card. The ones coming through th e proper border sure allow them but smugglers breaking the law need to be dealt with harshly. public executions for smuggling people across.

As to th e loss of jobs. SO what? They are going to be lost eventually might as well get used to it. People will have more free time to write poetry and pursue other careers. lol!! Actually our education system needs to concentrate on technical fields more so than manufacturing and farming these days.

I did suggest a streamlining of the immigration process too. swear loyalty to the US and put it first. Penalty of breaking this promise is deportation and or jail time.



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 02:35 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Did you hear or see that vapid, long winded post by gryphon? Yeah, me neither.



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: gator2001
a reply to: Gryphon66

Did you hear or see that vapid, long winded post by gryphon? Yeah, me neither.


Ad hominem.

Who is "being rude" now?

It is ironic that you use the term vapid though, don't you think?



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 02:43 PM
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originally posted by: usernameconspiracy

originally posted by: yuppa

If a illegal trys to send a WU then they should be held and turned over to ICE.
I dont care if they got a family back home. same as they dont care about mine.


So now we are requiring everyone to carry around their ss card, huh? Genius. And I suppose we'll have to swear in the poor minimum wage worker at the service counter at the local Kroger or Walmart who does WU, so he or she can detain people.

Amazing the stupidity of it all.

And that wall? I don't care if Trump was elected tomorrow, it never gets built.


CArry my SS card everywhere i go. ALso my drivers licence,miniture Birth certificate too. Mos tamericans already carry around their drivers licences and SS cards. its why they are in such a handy dandy pocket sized format.

ALso "th ewall" dont have to be a actual wal in reality. id be fine with sensors and the guards from Area 51 actually patrolling and shooting tresspassers instead. And or drones doing it since we have so much experience with them.

As to someone else about my lack of conscience. Not so. i care enough to want them to stay home and not come here looking for a freebie and ignoring our laws. You my be fine getting screwed for free but i always make my dates pay before screwing me so to speak.



posted on Apr, 6 2016 @ 02:47 PM
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originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: yuppa


Seismic sensors used in AREA 51,s fencing system work wonders on telling where a intruder is. and we could plant explosives along the ground under the wall to prevent digging.


What would the explosives be/do exactly?



To collapse the tunnels and kill the tunnellers in a collapse.



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