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Obama smacks down Trump’s border wall plan

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posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 02:41 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: UKTruth

I live there.

I know what's been done.



I see, so you count all the illegal immigrants right?...and your location allows you to guarantee Mexico won't pay for the wall?
Yeah, right.


I had a business, customers like to talk.

It's a small town. One where you actually know your local representatives and people from different agencies. And divided families living on both sides of the border.

Your pro Trump opinion comes from what?



You don't know the real illegal immigration numbers (no one does) and you cant guarantee that Mexico won't pay for the wall. The fact you live near the border and chat to some locals doesn't give you the insight to make guarantees on these areas.




I have something to base my opinion on.

What do you have?


I haven't guaranteed anything or dismissed everyone else's opinion apart from one's own on illegal immigration numbers.



Mexico is run by drug lords.

If you think they're gonna pay for a fence - - - I'd like to hear your view on how and who is gonna make that happen.




posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 03:10 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing

My point is 12 million dollars arguably created an issue by assigning a number to it. Being told you're going to get shot scared people into buying guns. Numbers are already used to justify racsim, attaching a 10 billion dollar label to "the Mexican problem" is a problem on its own.


If I wasn't annoyed enough there are ilegal aliens taking my tax money, now I get to be mad the Goverment supports robbing myself personally.

A true American solution is a conservative one.

Let's pay for lasers, minefield, drones, satellites, sensors, cameras.

I don't want cemet, and I don't want cement in the name of Mexicans especially.

If you don't understand what I meant by impact, it's that nonracists parties are becoming racist over this number. They KNOW Mexicans aren't bad, they also KNOW the wall isn't up to them, and their new reactions are hating Mexicans BECAUSE of the publicity of just a wall and the money that costs, not legal immigration.

People said themself, things were getting better immigration wise with Obama, is this directly tied to his fence? Or is it something else? The possibility he didn't incorporate Murphy's Law? How does the implications that we talked about earlier apply to this?



Google "blame shifting" projection, and cross reference that with "The Secret".

You were robbed, because you bought a lock sir.

It's a 10 billion dollar lock. That won't cause just robbery, it will cause straight war, and with only the idea of possibilitiy has already cause violence and racism.

You need to address the cause- fear.

A local Texan in Brownsville warned me to stear clear of the border there when I was there yesterday, and I'd be murdered. I'm sure as a local he understands it isn't as bad as he claims- the reason he warns me is he care, and the extremities is quite persuasive. This is why I haven't seen the wall, I'm not from here. I'd get murdered without my local witts.

However you need look no further than Texas to see what this is causing. American Mexicans in Texas are valued and respected, and until someone is known to be ilegal do they "get the rope".

American Mexicans in every other state are guilty until proven opposite it feels, as the discrimination is real.

It's imperative that the people who live on the border make this their issue, and Texas should lead them, but for anyone else to deal with Mexico is just the establishment seeking control.

To my knowledge Donald Trump isn't from Texas, he is from New York, his father was from New York and so on. I've lived in Texas for 4 years, and even though I still take residence in Colorado, this is my second home, where I own a second home. If my opinion isn't as good as his, consider I lived in New York for 4 years also, and that would be my third home, and as my third home is concerned, anyone from New York seems to be willing to say ANYTHING to get what they want.

It would be completely different if it was Bush, but this man is contracting with you guys because it's an easy target and he owns construction and reality. As much as I support Texas, and whatever choice they want, be it a 1000ft moat with 100ft walls, it really pises me off someone who has arguably been as purple as me is soley the one to profit.

If ran by Texas, I laugh the implications the anti-establishment could easily come up, with here is my 4 second try:
"TEXAS HIGHERS LEGAL MEXICANS TO BUILD THEIR OWN WALL! AND THEY SUPPORT IT!"

Imagine the kind of headline that would send to Mexico about what the proper way to immigrate would be.


"To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy"

-Sun Tzu, The Art of War

edit on 7-4-2016 by imjack because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 04:03 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: UKTruth

I live there.

I know what's been done.



I see, so you count all the illegal immigrants right?...and your location allows you to guarantee Mexico won't pay for the wall?
Yeah, right.


I had a business, customers like to talk.

It's a small town. One where you actually know your local representatives and people from different agencies. And divided families living on both sides of the border.

Your pro Trump opinion comes from what?



You don't know the real illegal immigration numbers (no one does) and you cant guarantee that Mexico won't pay for the wall. The fact you live near the border and chat to some locals doesn't give you the insight to make guarantees on these areas.




I have something to base my opinion on.

What do you have?


I haven't guaranteed anything or dismissed everyone else's opinion apart from one's own on illegal immigration numbers.



Mexico is run by drug lords.

If you think they're gonna pay for a fence - - - I'd like to hear your view on how and who is gonna make that happen.


If Trump said that, he'd be castigated by the media and bleeding hearts the world over for months!
That said, it's now clear what your opinion is.... that Trump won't be able to get drug lords to pay for the wall.

Suffice to say I don't agree with your opinion.

I think there are a number of incentives as well as threats that could be brought into play.

On the threat side, I think remittances and taxes as examples will work well - but there are many others.
Also, if Mexico really is run by drug lords, then a crack down on the drug trade (instead of facilitating it!) could well be a lever to pull.

On the incentive side, a large chunk of the income received by the Mexican govt is from oil (about 1/3 I believe). A ramp up in US manufacturing under Trump's jobs policies will increase oil demand and I suspect a deal could be struck with Mexico to lock in future income growth. i.e. Pay for the wall now and we'll buy more of your oil in the future, or else we'll take our business elsewhere and you lose out.

Again, many more examples of incentives, including the use of tourism, with Mexico. Mexico I think is the #1 US holiday destination with nearly 30m holidays annually. I am pretty sure both countries could work on a program to boost that even further (there again this could also be used as part of a threat)

What is not being discussed enough is that the $10bn cost for a wall is not a one off cash amount. I am pretty sure that capital expenditure is spread over 10 years in US budgets - so just $1bn a year. Mexico has reduced their budget by $14bn over the last two years alone and is still able to run a budget at only minus 2-3% of GDP (pretty decent comparatively speaking).

The levers are most certainly there. Mexico needs the US economy far far more than the US needs Mexico. More importantly this does not have to be punitive action. A good deal is one that creates a win/win after all.




edit on 7/4/2016 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 04:26 PM
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Also, if Mexico really is run by drug lords, then a crack down on the drug trade (instead of facilitating it!) could well be a lever to pull.



Another insanely good point, as a wall only increases the supply and demand. It doesn't STOP them, it makes it harder, yet more profitable.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 04:29 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

If Trump said that, he'd be castigated by the media and bleeding hearts the world over for months!
That said, it's now clear what your opinion is.... that Trump won't be able to get drug lords to pay for the wall.



NO, that's not my opinion. My opinion is no one will get Mexican drug lords to pay for and build a fence on our southern border.

Annexing Mexico as a territory might be a better answer.

And, I am not anti-Trump. I stated more then once I'd like to see him given a position in politics to see what he does.

But, I don't think he's presidential material.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 04:31 PM
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originally posted by: imjack

Also, if Mexico really is run by drug lords, then a crack down on the drug trade (instead of facilitating it!) could well be a lever to pull.



Another insanely good point, as a wall only increases the supply and demand. It doesn't STOP them, it makes it harder, yet more profitable.


Yeah, would love to see the designs drug lords come up with for a fence.

Wonder how many hidden tunnels they'd put in.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 04:38 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Drug lords "own" the Mexican government?

So that means all the government efforts to fight smuggling down there is just a show?

I think Trump is referring to trade and tariff balances to make them pay.

walls




edit on Apr-07-2016 by xuenchen because: make them pay



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: imjack

Also, if Mexico really is run by drug lords, then a crack down on the drug trade (instead of facilitating it!) could well be a lever to pull.



Another insanely good point, as a wall only increases the supply and demand. It doesn't STOP them, it makes it harder, yet more profitable.


Yeah, would love to see the designs drug lords come up with for a fence.

Wonder how many hidden tunnels they'd put in.


Drug lords and fences... we should probably stick with talking about the Mexican govt and walls.

I don't think Trump's plan involves a fence or drug lords. If you are changing your guarantee to 'Trump won't make drug lords build a fence' then OK, I suspect you can make that guarantee. It's a bit different from you wild over reach of guaranteeing that Mexico won't pay for the wall as you originally stated though. I can see why you would want to change the perspective!

edit on 7/4/2016 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 04:47 PM
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a reply to: Annee

No, the point is what's the cost of heroine if the wall is "higher"?

Objectively it's "higher" and like you mentioned earlier, the don't even need to cross over the wall. They can use a "submarine" or whatever.

While HIS point is if you hate drugs, Crack down on drugs not immigration.

He never made mention of designing it, he said he thinks they objectively have incentive to pay.

Texas drug laws are pretty strict, but this isn't the case in a lot of other places, I'd personally be happy to see the government issuing manslaughter changes elsewhere, and that being said, manslaughter might not be strict enough.

What needs to be decriminalized is the people that take drugs, not the people that sell them. This is the only confusing part of Texas, as they consider "victims" the larger problem....MONTHS OF JAIL for a gram of weed?...by comparison ONLY the death penalty seems appropriate for being a bigtime seller of heroine then.
edit on 7-4-2016 by imjack because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 08:52 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

I used to work in a Arizona town that was far north of the border and would use a service that would mail my packages that was a business not the USPS. This store had a western union and if I happened to go in on a Friday which was a usual Payday. I would see a line out the door of Mexicans sending wads of cash back to Mexico. I speak enough spanish that I could understand what they were saying when talking to the clerk. There is a butt load of cash getting sent from the US to Mexico just as trump is refering to. Its a shame.

Wont Obama be gone and not have a say in the wall any way?



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:12 PM
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a reply to: agentscoly

1. WU fees discourage remittance, they're extremely inconvenient for anyone other than single time use emergencies.
2. There are caps and limits to how much can be sent in a single transfer, and also in 30 days. This also discourages remittance.
3. Sending money abroad only increases our currency circulation and thus economy.
4. Currency exchange is beneficial for mostly the US not anyone else.
5. Inflation affects the spending power of dollars abroad, while injecting the money into OUR country. We just take it back.
6. WU pays corperate taxes on their revenue.
7. They legitimately worked for this money, at most likely a ripoff in labor cost, it's theirs to do as they please.
8. Not paying taxes in this country is f###ing impossible, they pay sales tax everyday. They also don't get a tax RETURN.
9. They're trying to feed starving families, not debase our economy OR benefit, simply avoiding death of loved ones.
10. Your entitlement to this tax money they don't pay is as Left sounding as it gets you big babies.
edit on 7-4-2016 by imjack because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:29 PM
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originally posted by: imjack
A wall is a monument to a terrible breed of thought: Mexicans can't follow the rules. They aren't going to stop by Phoenix for the Green Card, and they're going to avoid taxes and send our money away. Well guess what, a wall address none of that. It just gives them the finger before they have an opportunity to be American.


Illegal aliens can't follow the rules. Most of them come from the south. If they took the legal routes to try and bocome Americans, the concept of the wall would not be as popular as it is.

America is a gumbo soup of multiple cultures and philosophies. The only way we get along is to follow the same rules. In many ways, illegal aliens are not treated by the same rules as native citizens. That makes people angry. A wall is a rallying point for them. While I think it's a great construction project ideal, I'd prefer to be building an outpost on the moon as a stepping stone to Mars.

I'd much prefer stronger enforcement of existing laws, especially cracking down on businesses that employ illegals.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 10:36 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

You cannot assimilate without being here. The paperwork is filled locally. Every assimilated citizen is at one point "ilegall". It's a honor system.

A wall is extremely hypocritical to being a country that 'promotes' assimilation when you cannot file the paperwork, non-locally.

Until that changes, it's hypocritical.
edit on 7-4-2016 by imjack because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 11:07 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: imjack

Also, if Mexico really is run by drug lords, then a crack down on the drug trade (instead of facilitating it!) could well be a lever to pull.



Another insanely good point, as a wall only increases the supply and demand. It doesn't STOP them, it makes it harder, yet more profitable.


Yeah, would love to see the designs drug lords come up with for a fence.

Wonder how many hidden tunnels they'd put in.


Drug lords and fences... we should probably stick with talking about the Mexican govt and walls.



What part of the Mexican government is drug lords are you missing?



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 11:12 PM
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originally posted by: imjack
a reply to: Teikiatsu

You cannot assimilate without being here. The paperwork is filled locally. Every assimilated citizen is at one point "ilegall". It's a honor system.

A wall is extremely hypocritical to being a country that 'promotes' assimilation when you cannot file the paperwork, non-locally.

Until that changes, it's hypocritical.


No you keep a green card to stay legal while integrating. So no not every Citizen i s illegal.



posted on Apr, 7 2016 @ 11:19 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

You only can get a Green Card in Phoenix and Chicago.

I wasn't aware you can now have then mailed.

Thanks Obama. Decrease in ilegall aliens now makes some sense to me as compared to before.

Wall it off I guess then. No less hypocritical, but at least it's theoretically possible. Personally this makes minefield my total-new favorite as it doesn't break the bank and sends messages quick. Also less of an eyesore.
edit on 7-4-2016 by imjack because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2016 @ 12:16 AM
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originally posted by: imjack
a reply to: yuppa

You only can get a Green Card in Phoenix and Chicago.

I wasn't aware you can now have then mailed.

Thanks Obama. Decrease in ilegall aliens now makes some sense to me as compared to before.

Wall it off I guess then. No less hypocritical, but at least it's theoretically possible. Personally this makes minefield my total-new favorite as it doesn't break the bank and sends messages quick. Also less of an eyesore.


I do think your minefield would work, but the worry would be about those pesky children playing and then being exploded. Might create a humanitarian outcry


How about putting signs up that point in the wrong direction? You walk north thinking you are heading towards the U.S. and encounter a sign that says "Mexico City 100 miles" and points north. Maybe create some magnetic field that would point a compass needle south.




posted on Apr, 8 2016 @ 01:55 AM
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a reply to: gator2001

Pesky children just play where the border is? I don't even go there because I'm constantly told I'll get murdered.

Minefield can easily be marked. But this is assuming the US doesn't also have the technology to have a sensor detect motion, a satellite view that location, and then remote detonate it. They do. They don't just "go off". Proximites do that, and my favorite is the RFID, that self-disable if you have an American Helmet. That being said, you can just inject the children with RFID, and then they can play in the border all they want as 'bait'.

If the "humanitarian outcry" is over the Mexican Children, I seriously doubt it's legitimatly coming from the same people I have to drop the mic so hard on over remittance. The other people(humanitarians) don't even want a wall at all.

Excuse me for being functional and practical.

Ps. Try to build a tunnel under a minefield and tell me what happens.
edit on 8-4-2016 by imjack because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2016 @ 02:32 AM
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So while y'all are jumping up and down on your soapboxes bitching and whining about Mexicans sending a few of their pennies (legitimately earned or otherwise) to their families down south....

The bajillionaires are sending their billions upon billions of dollars every day to other foreign countries too... by way of tax havens.



Yes that's right folks, keep your eyes on the right hand so that you don't see what the left hand is doing.

Thank you for drinking the Kool-Aid.

Yours sincerely,
Donald J. Trump™





posted on Apr, 8 2016 @ 03:27 AM
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a reply to: CranialSponge

It's so bad, we're essentially just the Left and the Other-Left now. And neither are ever right. I blame a slew of Republicans worth exactly 1 million dollars. They think they know what rich is.

With all this "leftness" our next dollar is going to be "the million".
edit on 8-4-2016 by imjack because: (no reason given)




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