How can we get the majority to focus on the only issue that is relevant? Don't Vote, protest 2016?

a reply to: Willingly

There are no "masses"!!. There are only people or citizens.

masses = the majority = composed of people or citizens and not aliens.

makes me think you don't know anything about what the "real issue" is.

So corruption is not the real issue for you?

vote for a third part

While I lean more towards libertarianism the fact is that we have a corrupted system and the DNC,GOP,and MSM are controlling the game and which players get heard. A third party candidate has no shot of even getting into the the spotlight with the masses/majority. The Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD) is controlled by the DNC and the Gop.

However, again this thread IS NOT about VOTING its about making corruption issue #1.

a reply to: interupt42

Not voting won't bring attention to anything. Even if only 2 people vote in virtually all of our elected positions, someone will still be elected. There are even procedures in place if no one gets a majority of cast votes. As in, the mayor, governor, city council, or State legislature gets to appoint someone to that position.

To put it another way, just look at the American demographics that already don't get to vote, like children and prisoners. By not being able to vote, are they somehow sending some powerful message to the elected officials? No. Governments don't even care about their wants or needs.

And what about young voters who simply choose not to vote? Do politicians bend over backwards to push through pro-youth policies in order to get their attention? No. In fact, both political parties completely ignore the youth and instead focus on the older populations (since they're more likely to actually vote). One of the major pro-Hillary talking points right now is that the youth vote won't matter come the general election or the midterms since youth don't normally vote. So they say Bernie's current success is an illusion.

The only way we're going to change this system is by getting the snakes out of office and electing non-corrupt people. But we can't do either of these from the outside. Choosing not to vote will only make the people who actually vote have more influence. And choosing not to contest elections will only give the incumbents an easier path to maintaining their positions and the status quo.

Edit to add: where I'm from, there's a saying: "The squeaky wheel gets the oil."

a reply to: interupt42

masses = the majority = composed of people or citizens and not aliens.

I'm very sensitive regarding the usage of language. And the term "masses" is a term I, personally, would never use. And YOU mentioned aliens, not I. Very telling also.

A third party candidate has no shot of even getting into the the spotlight with the masses/majority. The Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD) is controlled by the DNC and the Gop.

Aha! There you go! Not voting for a third party is your advice. Now I know why I thought I have to lecture you regarding the proper use of terms and the real cause of corruption.

To blame the corrupt people for being corrupt in a system in which corruption is the norm, is not nice. Blame the individual for their mistakes while the real mistake stays hidden, hmmm? Gotcha!

However, again this thread IS NOT about VOTING its about making corruption issue #1.

Noted! Thanks for reminding me.

a reply to: interupt42

Like I said I'm not holding my breath but seeing people distracted by the wrong issues and watching them discussing the same issues over and over for numerous decades with the same result is just too annoying to bare sometimes

Totally agree with that too. Too much to bare means take a break, don't waste too much energy on it?

You can lead horses to water but…

keep on keeping on.

a reply to: interupt42

Mmmm, I feel your pain and agree to a large extent but I don't think the "Government" you want to take back is going to pay any heed to protests of the election. They don't care.

See, the thing is that the "Government" you think you want to take back, i.e., the US Federal Government IS the problem. Try to get it back and all you'd succeed in doing, assuming success is possible, is getting back an entirely broken institution. Would you want your Grandfathers Ford Edsel back?

I'd suggest that the only solution is to fight for greater and greater States rights. As voters we all have a lot more ownership and control of local and State governments. The secret to this is to de-power the Federal central government and to reassert States Rights. There's already a movement formed to get this done, I think its called the call for a Convention of States, and the whole idea is to get the Feds out of the business of controling and directing State issues.

a reply to: TonyS

Mmmm, I feel your pain and agree to a large extent but I don't think the "Government" you want to take back is going to pay any heed to protests of the election. They don't care.

Agreed, but the people focusing on the wrong issues also doesn't help. Atleast if the majority focused on corruption it would be harder for them to ignore.

I'd suggest that the only solution is to fight for greater and greater States rights. As voters we all have a lot more ownership and control of local and State governments. The secret to this is to de-power the Federal central government and to reassert States Rights.

Dont disagree, but its that corruption that is giving the Fed gov't more power.

Whenever voting levels are at all time lows do you every hear anybody complaining? It is much easier to manipulate a small group of people voting than it is a larger group. Don't vote and you are doing exactly what they want.

a reply to: Willingly

I'm very sensitive regarding the usage of language. And the term "masses" is a term I, personally, would never use. And YOU mentioned aliens, not I. Very telling also.

Understood in regards to your sensitivity of terms, nothing wrong with that. The Alien reference was in regards your previous reference of not associating citizens and people with my reference to masses.

Aha! There you go! Not voting for a third party is your advice.

LOL, when did I say that? I never said to not vote third party. Actually I don't believe in the lesser evil mentality and feel that a vote for a DNC or GOP candidate is truly a wasted vote vs a third party vote.

However my feelings for voting for a third party doesn't change the fact that the DNC ,GOP, and the MSM have the power and resources to make that almost impossible. Hence you had Ron Paul run as GOP candidate and now Bernie Sanders as a DNC candidate.

Part of exposing the corruption is that it will make it easier to argue based on issues versus party lines.

Noted! Thanks for reminding me.

Noted your noted for my noted. No problems.

originally posted by: MrSpad
Whenever voting levels are at all time lows do you every hear anybody complaining? It is much easier to manipulate a small group of people voting than it is a larger group. Don't vote and you are doing exactly what they want.

I wish I could edit the OP and get rid of my voting comment because the thread is not about voting or not voting and whether it matters.

So the point of this thread is not about discussing whether your vote matters or not

The thread is about bringing focus on the one issue that must be fixed before all others, which is corruption and conflict of interests with our politicians.

I wouldn't expect to have an honest discussion or solution from a salesman who is employed by the healthcare company that drafted our current healthcare laws and is benefiting from them. (Note: just an example not intended to trash Obama and derail the thread,lol)

It appears to me that we need to put majority of our focus on addressing corruption (the conflict of interest ,revolving door policies,endless term limits,Lobbying,etc) before we start to expect a valid solution for healthcare,immigration,or the other issues that have been discussed over and over and over by the DNC and the GOP.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

The only way we're going to change this system is by getting the snakes out of office and electing non-corrupt people.

Agreed,
Lets forget my comment about not voting which I wish I could edit out since a lot of people are focused on that versus bringing corruption to the forefront.

IMO to do that we need to solely be discussing corruption or at minimum make it issue number 1.

As long as our majority of people,politicians,DNC,GOP,MSM keep focused on the typical discussions about healthcare, immigration,jobs,etc that have been rehashed to death , we will never be able to fix corruption which impacts each of those issues.

The reason each one of those issues is a cluster F is because of conflict of interest between our politicians selected by the GOP and the DNC and the industries they are suppose to regulate.

a reply to: interupt42

I can agree with this. But we literally can't change this corruption without changing who writes and implements the laws. The revolving door will always exist as long as insiders are the only ones running for office or being appointed into positions of power.

We need an organized effort to get like-minded reformers into every positions of power. Otherwise, we're just expecting insiders to make laws that will damage their own status. Unfortunately, even reformers can have conflicts of interest because of investments, family members, etc.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

But we literally can't change this corruption without changing who writes and implements the laws.

Agreed,

We need an organized effort to get like-minded reformers into every positions of power.

That was more of my intention of this thread.

However, the majority of people aren't even focused on corruption or conflict of interest when it comes to voting even though they all admit that its the reason why things are a cluster F,

Hence how can we encourage the majority of people to get focused on corruption as issue number 1? Then perhaps we could get the DNC and the GOP to focus on the following things that contribute to corruption and our main problems in just about every sector, as their top issues:


1. Congregational term limits

2. campaign financing reform.

3. Lobbying reform

4. doing away with super-pacs

5. Revolving door between gov't and private sector

6. Transparency

a reply to: interupt42

Unfortunately, most people consider politics "boring". It'll be nearly impossible to keep people mobilized long enough to implement those changes, especially when we have so many other ways to be distracted (pro sports, entertainment industry, pop culture, etc).

Even now when the masses rise up for a specific issue, they rarely stick around to make sure the new laws are fully funded or implemented. That's why politicians like to stall on issues. They know that the public rage/interest will die down in a few weeks or months.

I think the best way would be to make politics a part of pop culture. And not just presidential elections, but local elections too. Like having celebrities run for office or be a part of the different State and federal administrations. And the govt hearings and votes need to be promoted the same way sports and fashion are promoted.

Otherwise, most people won't care enough to look into the daily committee hearings, votes on normal issues, etc. But if their favorite (or least favorite) celebs are debating a new bill in the Senate, maybe they'll be inclined to pay attention to it? As boring and petty as many reality tv shows are, I hesitate to see how most govt meetings can be any worse.

edit to add: Just imagine if the Kardashians, NBA stars, and some country music stars were elected governors and or mayors. lol. I can guarantee you their meetings and proposed laws would get a lot more press coverage than we currently see.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I don't disagree that would likely and sadly work to get more people involved but that also could be the indication that it's to late to prevent idiocracy from becoming reality.

:lol

We tried celebrities before with the whole MTV vote or die thing. It worked and got more young people involved. However it did nothing to bring focus to the main issue of corruption and conflict of interest with the system. They focused on the same script we got today.

Now if the Kardashians tweeted about corruption and thosee 6 things I mentioned before than yeah that could sadly work.

Don't vote- the sheep who do will make the decisions, and they will vote for either their predetermined party or whoever they're told will make a difference for them.

Some of the most capable thinkers I've ever met won't look past their own party of choice- let alone looking past the fact that every one of the available options are ALL from the same diseased crop of infectious politicians.


You can't get your message out- freedom of speech may be protected, but only until you try to speak out against the people who own speech.


IMO, it can't be saved. Get out, and watch it burn. Thinkers are more useful when it comes to rebuilding the world- the time to try and save it is long past.

a reply to: interupt42

I agree that it could further entrench the focus on petty things. Corporate media would still be owned by the same major companies. And they'd still have no interest in getting people to care about offshore tax laws, the intricacies of budget deals, and the such. But I think that if the celebrity bureaucrats and politicians could make it more dramatic, it would garner more attention.

I guess I just recognize that the public is far smarter than they're given credit for. People can memorize entire albums, all of the dialogue in movies, years worth of sports stats, and how to beat 100 different dungeons and raids in World of Warcraft. So it's not like they don't have the mental capacity to learn this stuff. I think it just has to be presented in a more entertaining way in order to keep the public's interest. And fearmongering only works for so long before people get burned out (same with protest movements).

a reply to: interupt42

"It appears to me that we need to put majority of our focus on addressing corruption (the conflict of interest ,revolving door policies,endless term limits,Lobbying,etc)"

I guess the best way to address the corruption would be to hammer on that single point with our State Representatives and State Senators and of course with our Congressional Representatives and Senators.

The only way to make permanent changes to eliminate the corruption is to change the system of campaign finance, because the life blood for Congressional Representatives is campaign money because they're constantly having to seek re-election because of their short terms.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I guess I just recognize that the public is far smarter than they're given credit for.

Agreed.


What I have realized is that many people are smart and able to utilize common sense principles in many areas but not all areas.

Politics appears to be an area where bias and emotions overtake logic for many. People don't like to admit they have been scammed and for the most part that is exactly what the GOP and the DNC have done .

I equate the common GOP and DNC hardcore loyalist to this guy who refuses to see the issues within their own party.

Man Who Lost $3 million to African Scammers Refuses to Believe He's been Scammed

Normally most people have the smart to not believe what a car salesman is telling them . Howver time and time again they do the opposite with politics and once they make their alliance to their party , they blindly accept what the GOP ,DNC, and their party favored MSM tell them.

In addition, most would think its ludicrous to ask the Mafia to fix the issues with crime in their neighbourhood. Yet that is what the majority appear to be doing from what I can see.

These same people are very smart and logical in other aspects and areas , but they throw out logic and common sense when it comes to politics.

I don't blame their intelligence as the issue, I blame: spare time, the priorities in ones life, and the billion dollar industries who control the GOP,DNC,and MSM that keep those same individuals chasing their tails with distractions and false information.

Hence why I think its critical to help the majority get back to focusing on the real topics that should be up to discussion by our representatives at this time:

1. Congregational term limits

2. campaign financing reform.

3. Lobbying reform

4. doing away with super-pacs

5. Revolving door between gov't and private sector

6. Transparency


Their is no point to focus on anything but corruption as everything else is being effected by it. Corruption is our countries ground zero issue

a reply to: TonyS

Excellent post.

The problem I see is that the majority are focused on the wrong issues and chasing their tails with the same rehash of issues like (healthcare,economy,immigration,ss,etc... ) and not corruption.

I don't blame them for the most part due to several reasons.

1. People have given up with politics and many accept that they are all corrupt and feel helpless. So they are all aware of the corruption but because they feel so helpless when it comes to politics that they choose to ignore this fact.

2. The MSM,GOP,DNC lobbyist owned Propaganda machines makes it easy for the majority to ignore corruption as an issue by rehashing and focusing on the symptoms of corruption rather than corruption itself.

The MSM,GOP,DNC have also effectively made politics a team sport and once the people pick their team they seldom jump ship no matter how $h1TTy their team is doing.

The question is how can we overcome this cycle and get the people to only focus on corruption to then get the DNC and GOP to focus on it?

a reply to: interupt42

I propose that the way is to identify the types and occurences of corruption and then to communicate those concerns forcefully to my local Congressional Representative who is NONE TO SHY ABOUT EMAILING ME FOR MONEY EVERY WEEK!

Got a list?