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False flag ops to further the war on terror?

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posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 06:18 PM
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I've been thinking for quite some time that there is no way American can justify another invasion in the WoT. Afghanistan was the free one for 9/11. Iraq strained credibility. The failure to produce WMD completely wiped out our political capital- we can't afford another war. A lot of people like to compare the war on terror to the timeline of early WWII. Well, depending on who we attack next, we're getting into Poland/France part of the timeline: people aren't gonna stand for much more of this aggression before we find ourselves under sanctions and maybe even kicked off the UN Security Council.

The answer? We have to get somebody else to start a war for a change, and we need a 2 for 1 deal, because we have several targets left but you can't use the same trick repeatedly or people will figure it out.

My scenario:
I anticipate a ballistic missile, like the gulf war scud attacks, to be launched from Iran against Israel. Why would Iran do that? They wouldn't, but America could get people into Iran with a mobile ballistic missile and launch it.
Israel strikes back, destroying Iranian reactors and airfields.
Iran declares war on Israel and gives US troops and ultimatum to retreat to Turkey and stay out of the war or be subject to chemical attack.
Syria may side with Iran, and if they dont immediately America can carry out airstrikes on Syrian targets that would be blamed on Israel.

Israel cleans house on Syria, America invades Iran, and it's all Iran's fault.

Obviously I don't have everything 100% accurate, but I think the concept is sound. Does anybody else think America may resort to framing Iran or Syria for the instigation of a war?




posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 06:25 PM
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first bravo your imagination is better then mine

the US wouldnt risk this because oil prices will hit the roof
and already the value of the dollor is dropping and rising ( very unstable )
so any new conflict with or without the US would be very damaging to the US.



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond
Obviously I don't have everything 100% accurate, but I think the concept is sound. Does anybody else think America may resort to framing Iran or Syria for the instigation of a war?


I believe the government had a hand in 9/11 based on the premise that the attention a ruling party gives to the inclination of its population progresses its own agenda, in this case a huge event to instill terror and residual fear and subsequent comfort of an authority "taking steps to quash the threat." Logic has little to do with the analyzation of the authoritys action as emotion is a powerful thing-the government remains an intimidating force.

With that in mind, I find it highly plausible that a portion of the government has a vested interest to indirectly ruffle feathers, but with events still fresh in our minds, it would be more likely that the purveyance of a threat is the order for a while...for now, it's the medias job.



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 06:35 PM
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Its gonna go down pretty much the way you say, vagabond. With us calling off the search today for wmds today, I think we've lost the last shred of respect we had in the world. I mean, what was the purpose of invading them? What did Powell tell the UN ? It was all bs. The white house tries to say it was flawed intel, but thats crap.

Now on to Israel. Personally, I feel that they will kick things off themselves with proof of Iran's nuclear programs, thus leading to the bombing of which you speak. Iran will counter attack, and of course, we will gladly send more of our youth to their deaths.

I'd like to see Iran and Israel go at it. Both have impressive military, but I'd put my money on the jews. Just leave us out. But we all know that will never happen.....



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by bodrul
first bravo your imagination is better then mine

the US wouldnt risk this because oil prices will hit the roof
and already the value of the dollor is dropping and rising ( very unstable )
so any new conflict with or without the US would be very damaging to the US.



What if the powers that be -wanted- to tank the dollar? If America is thinking about annexing Mexico under the guise of a "North American Union" at any point in the future, we're going to have to level the playing field for currency. Also, if America wants to keep China and India from becoming major technology exporters they're going to have to weaken their currency so that they can be an economical provider for the European Union. All that, plus those who know what we're up to can still remain filthy rich by investing in the right companies and in the right countries.

I hate to say it, but in all probability you and I are not part of the equation when George Bush and Dick Cheney are planning America's future. To be fair, I don't think it would be any different if Ted Kennedy were president. Corruption is a constant in government.



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 08:32 PM
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dont the fascists elite break a country before they show there face fully, like has happened to america and nazi germany before it.

the fascist nazis used the breaking of germany by ww1 to appear as saviours and take total power.

very similar to what has happened in the usa the last 40 years, they appear when you are at a military peak and financial low, this way you dont see them coming and they get the best military to use.

they play at saving your empire, while taking total control for themselves, and you end up in the next reich (4th) ruled by evil fascists.

who you are looking up to for saviour, they smile but they are out to take everything and use you as there empire drones.

some of it seems to look this way, why would the elite fascists be any differrent from ww1 to ww2 to now?, you cant teach old dogs new tricks, or so the saying goes?.

but they dont seem to need to as the majority seems to love and like there lies and tricks.



[edit on 12-1-2005 by MysticOfRadiance]



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by MysticOfRadiance
dont the fascists elite break a country before they show there face fully, like has happened to america and nazi germany before it.


Not exactly. They are always there, but they usually gain power as the result of economic disaster.



very similar to what has happened in the usa the last 40 years, they appear when you are at a military peak and financial low, this way you dont see them coming and they get the best military to use.


Study your history before you start the pseudo intellectual America bashing. Facists -built- the Nazi military. The German military was in shambles before they took power- there were severe restrictions on artillery in the German arsenal after WWI and Nazis ushered in the use of rockets as a sollution as part of their rearming.



they play at saving your empire, while taking total control for themselves, and you end up in the next reich (4th) ruled by evil fascists.

who you are looking up to for saviour, they smile but they are out to take everything and use you as there empire drones.


Oh boy, where do I begin.
1. Facism is a political ideology, and the popular world war II version was closely connected to nationalism. This is in sharp contrast to the accussations commonly leveled at the Bush administration. You can call it corrupt and self-serving, but facist would be a stretch, especially according to the WWII example.
2. The nationalist "restore our empire" line which you are referring to is absent from the US administration. The war on terror, while certainly questionable, is not similar in motivation to German efforts in WWII.
3. So what does an empire drone do exactly? I suppose he probably works, pays his taxes, and obeys the law? That's called a citizen, not a drone. Call me when they start rounding up people for forced labor in coal mines and institute military conscription during peacetime. Then there will be drones.



but they dont seem to need to as the majority seems to love and like there lies and tricks.
[edit on 12-1-2005 by MysticOfRadiance]


Give it a little time; extremist agendas never last. The only hope for neo conservativism is that people like you will scare middle America to their side with your rhetoric and mischaracterizations. There is A LOT to attack in the Bush administration and there are changes that need to be made, including in regards to the war on terror, but the ridiculous far-left dogma about Bush being a nazi just doesn't work.
Why not make rational specific criticisms and offer alternatives instead of arrogantly blasting away about facism and alienating people. Hell, I would probably agree with you on a lot of issues, but look at me defending Bush because you went over the top with this crap.



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 09:34 PM
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You sure you could just "sneak" in a missle into Iran, pretty sure they would notice you coming in esp. from Iraq's side of the bourder.

Your Canadian friend,
Sven



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 12:40 AM
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Originally posted by svenglezz
You sure you could just "sneak" in a missle into Iran, pretty sure they would notice you coming in esp. from Iraq's side of the bourder.

Your Canadian friend,
Sven


A couple of guys with an object not quite the size of an 18 wheel truck? No problem. We couldn't use the highways, but there isn't a fence with thousands of armed guys watching out in the middle of the desert.

We could plot a safe course using UAVs so as not to be observed, take a missile out into the Iranian Desert not too far from a military base, launch the dang thing, then have the crew who fired it hunker down and hide for a while and sneak their way back out of the country slowly- that's what special forces are good for.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond

Originally posted by MysticOfRadiance
dont the fascists elite break a country before they show there face fully, like has happened to america and nazi germany before it.


Not exactly. They are always there, but they usually gain power as the result of economic disaster.



very similar to what has happened in the usa the last 40 years, they appear when you are at a military peak and financial low, this way you dont see them coming and they get the best military to use.


Study your history before you start the pseudo intellectual America bashing. Facists -built- the Nazi military. The German military was in shambles before they took power- there were severe restrictions on artillery in the German arsenal after WWI and Nazis ushered in the use of rockets as a sollution as part of their rearming.



they play at saving your empire, while taking total control for themselves, and you end up in the next reich (4th) ruled by evil fascists.

who you are looking up to for saviour, they smile but they are out to take everything and use you as there empire drones.


Oh boy, where do I begin.
1. Facism is a political ideology, and the popular world war II version was closely connected to nationalism. This is in sharp contrast to the accussations commonly leveled at the Bush administration. You can call it corrupt and self-serving, but facist would be a stretch, especially according to the WWII example.
2. The nationalist "restore our empire" line which you are referring to is absent from the US administration. The war on terror, while certainly questionable, is not similar in motivation to German efforts in WWII.
3. So what does an empire drone do exactly? I suppose he probably works, pays his taxes, and obeys the law? That's called a citizen, not a drone. Call me when they start rounding up people for forced labor in coal mines and institute military conscription during peacetime. Then there will be drones.



but they dont seem to need to as the majority seems to love and like there lies and tricks.
[edit on 12-1-2005 by MysticOfRadiance]


Give it a little time; extremist agendas never last. The only hope for neo conservativism is that people like you will scare middle America to their side with your rhetoric and mischaracterizations. There is A LOT to attack in the Bush administration and there are changes that need to be made, including in regards to the war on terror, but the ridiculous far-left dogma about Bush being a nazi just doesn't work.
Why not make rational specific criticisms and offer alternatives instead of arrogantly blasting away about facism and alienating people. Hell, I would probably agree with you on a lot of issues, but look at me defending Bush because you went over the top with this crap.




yes i can agree with your reasoning there, i missed mentioning also they appear when a country is at a spiritual low, and been seriously twisted, makes it easier for evil and the selfish to operate more openly in this type of environment, especially when you have had big fears and threats put into action.

what are you views about 911?.


"Call me when they start rounding up people for forced labor in coal mines and institute military conscription during peacetime. Then there will be drones.">>>>



the idea is to work it out in advance, then things dont get to that stage, though it if it is happening it will happen, im just researching it anyway, best not to be worshipping or agreeing with evil if one can help it.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 08:15 PM
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First off, full marks for the way you responded. I kinda feel bad for taking an adversarial approach only to meet with a cool headed response.
A lot of that wasn't really aimed at you anyway- I recently had a couple of bouts with somebody who just ended up on my ingore list, and it's made me a little abbrassive.



yes i can agree with your reasoning there, i missed mentioning also they appear when a country is at a spiritual low, and been seriously twisted, makes it easier for evil and the selfish to operate more openly in this type of environment, especially when you have had big fears and threats put into action.


History does show that ebbs in patriotism, morality, etc will lead to dramatic political changes. Again I do not believe that this is a "tactic". It is simply a phenomenon which opens the door for fringe ideologies to take power.
Ironically, extreme liberalism, especially in the form of socialism/communism has been the more common beneficiary of such circumstances, as opposed to extreme conservatism or facism.



what are you views about 911?.


Long story short I don't know for sure if 9/11 was an inside job or not. I wouldn't be totally shocked, not am I completely convinced.

The war on terror on the other hand, I am very convinced about; It has nothing to do with terrorists. This is a raid on the US treasury, plain and simple. We aren't stealing from Iraq. Bush is stealing from us.
America is losing money in Iraq and Iraq is getting goods and services for everything America takes. But funds from the US treasury are being diverted. That money is supposed to be used for building roads so me and my little brother can have work. That money is supposed to be funding my little cousin's education in public school. It's supposed to be sending a monkey to Mars so that NASA can invent more stupid stuff that we don't need, like vacuum packaged cheese spread and tang.
Instead, that money is going into No-bid contracts for Halliburton to do ghost work in Iraq. They dont even have to do the work- they can start bulding it half-arse and skimming money off the project then they blow it up and say "terrorists did it". That money is paying mercs under the employ of Wackenhut to take "security jobs" in Iraq. Go to their website- they require 2 years of military service to go be a rental cop in iraq? Go kid somebody else.
The war on terror is just an excuse for G-dub to give federal funding to all of his frat buddies from Skull and Bones.



"Call me when they start rounding up people for forced labor in coal mines and institute military conscription during peacetime. Then there will be drones.">>>>

the idea is to work it out in advance, then things dont get to that stage, though it if it is happening it will happen, im just researching it anyway, best not to be worshipping or agreeing with evil if one can help it.


One should always be jealously guarding his liberty, but not to the extent of arbitrarily branding an administration to be facist. If I really believed in my heart that the Bush administration was about to bring a facist state into existance, I would have a moral obligation to immediately do anything I could think of to stop them. I can't go flying off the handle and blowing up government buildings every time I have a conspiracy theory.

Defend your rights, know the limit, and if that limit is breached, fight.



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