Science isn't Everything

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posted on Jun, 25 2003 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by Vander
The original poster of this thread is totally wrong.

The simple fact that the universe has been proven to be closed with almost 100% certainty means that there is a limited amount of knowledge to be gain from our universe. What this means is that eventually there will come a time when we can no longer advance as a civilization because we will literally know everything there is to know.

The is only one question we will never be able to answer though and it is why? Why did the universe come into existance? This simple question will plague the inhabitants of the universe until the end of time. This is the one and only question that is unanswerable, everything else has an answer (that can be explain using science).



This is just grand. We will know everything there is to know. And we will never know why the universe came into exististance. You just proved yourself wrong by saying we will know everything. And then said something we will never know. Just spiffy.

Peace




posted on Jun, 26 2003 @ 03:27 PM
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I did not prove myself wrong. I said we will know everything there is to know about the universe which is true.

However the question of why did everything happen the way it did has nothing to do with the physical properties of the universe. You can totally understand how something works but you might never know why it works that way.

We will never know why the universe came to be because it is an unanswerable question and therefore it has nothing to do with how much knowledge we can gain in the universe.



posted on Jun, 26 2003 @ 03:49 PM
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Science can be seen as a tool to gain knowledge.

It should be neither evil or pure but totally neutral.
Like most other tools, it can be used for either of these purposes when placed in the hands of man.

Man naturally asks questions. He demands knowledge. The thirst for knowledge is a major part of man.

Science isn't everything, but it is a major part of our being able to understand: Who we are. Where we came from. Where we are going.


I believe that without Science the human race would have no direction.


neo

posted on Jun, 27 2003 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by spubbles
how could someone shoot someone without a gun?
how could someone stab someone without a knife?
how could someone hurt someone with any weapons?

well about the last one... it would be harder and more fairer..... mmmmm fairer...... well if the person was a weakling.... survival of the fittest......

about survival of the fittest....
if we didnt have a cure for many diseases they would be dead with the people that had them. If we didnt try to save the ones that were sick then we wouldnt be contaimanated. Its what we did many many years back. Stupid ethics.

pce

[Edited on 17-6-2003 by spubbles]


To right my goal in life is to ensure natural selection as i am so fed up with seeing incompetent and useless people (sorry that sounds very harsh) abuse things like state benifits and live a happy and iggnorent and have lots of children passing on their "faulty" genes (if i may use that word) life whilst leaching off honest hardworking and capable people.


Although i think i may have seen an answer to my some of my problems in gene theropy. By replacing defective genes with strong, healthy genes we sort of contribute to evolution ourselves and forward ourselves as a race.


Unfortunatly this wont help new genes develope as such but its a step forward all the same



posted on Jun, 27 2003 @ 03:41 PM
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Vander, I see that we may possibly have infinite knowledge of how things work but we may never find out why anything works. Sure we can come up with why one thing works, but theres the question why the answer to the 1st question why works. Wow.... I confused myself. But my point is we may never know why everything works in it entirety because as soon as we find a reason why something works we wonder why that reason works. And, in my opinion, that goes on infitively. We will always wonder why something works. Anyways, knowing absolutely everything would make life boring.

And neo, were you saying that all faulty genes should be replaced? Were you saying that what I said was true about evolution? I confused myself again....



posted on Jun, 27 2003 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by Vander
I did not prove myself wrong. I said we will know everything there is to know about the universe which is true.
_________________________________

First off, this is an opinion. Second, "we will know everything..." is a prediction; a postulation; an opinion. There is no truth to this and amounts to conjecture which further amounts to crap. Thirdly, ...."which is true."......this is also false, forgive the pun, but it also amounts to further conjecture and speculation and is non-factual.


regards
seekerof




[Edited on 27-6-2003 by Seekerof]

[Edited on 27-6-2003 by Seekerof]



posted on Jul, 1 2003 @ 05:27 AM
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From Lorena "I think that this world wasn't meant to know all the answers. I think we were supposed to make up legends n' stuff like our ancestors did b4 us. "

I don't believe our ancestors made up legends, but reported things they saw and experienced based on their limited understanding of the world.



posted on Jul, 1 2003 @ 05:41 AM
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No, I do not agree with the statements made in your original post. We have the intelligence to be cognizant of our environment, investigate, discover, interpret, memorize, develop and question. These are gifts for us. How could one justify allowing such wonderful gifts to atrophy from non use?

BUT, I do have a problem with the scientific community these days. I have watched science turn more into a religion than a lot of the newer religions that have developed in the past three decades.

The scientific method was abandoned years ago and replaced with statistics...and to paraphrase Einstein - God don't play dice. The abandonment of the scientific method has produced hypothesis that have been mislabeled into theories, but have been pushed to the general populace as if they were laws! It has led to these "theories"...(okay, that will be the last time I sarcastically refer to them that way - henceforth they will be properly named by me hypotheses), being nurtured and held to like religious dogma even when the most assinine band-aids have to be applied in order to keep them breathing.

I could rant for hours on this subject...it may actually be my pet peeve, but I think you get a clear picture of how I feel and what I'm saying.

BUT, I haven't answered your question in the original post - NO, science is not enough


Good topic!



posted on Jul, 1 2003 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by Valhall

The abandonment of the scientific method has produced hypothesis that have been mislabeled into theories, but have been pushed to the general populace as if they were laws! It has led to these "theories"...(okay, that will be the last time I sarcastically refer to them that way - henceforth they will be properly named by me hypotheses), being nurtured and held to like religious dogma even when the most assinine band-aids have to be applied in order to keep them breathing.



I've never quite heard scientific hypocrasy put so neatly. I agree with you about hypothesis force-fed as fact. Just take our previous little discussion on global warming as an example or the theory of evolution which has so many holes that Darwin himself abandoned it before his death. Yet we here both spoke of as if they had been cast in stone and woe to ye who disagrees on any basis. Yes, they have to use those band-aids liberally but I fear its to hide the wretched scares more than aid in the healing of their hypothesis.

The meshing of science and politics has yeilded nothing more than the mass confusion that was intended and the protection of theories at any cost including destruction of viable research has become business as usual.



posted on Jul, 1 2003 @ 11:06 AM
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Bah, if we didnt know anything we would all be sex crazed naked people living in caves.... does anyone have a problem with that?


Yep...I have a problem with it. Right off the bat, without scientists and technology, you sure couldn't share your views with a worldwide audience through this website, now could you?
Do you really think life in caveman days was bliss? If you weren't spending most of your waking moments chasing food, picking food, packing up and moving your things....you were fighting off large predators, other tribes, diseases you would be helpless against, and numerous parasites. Oh boy, sounds like bliss to me! Sign me up! Nah.....didn't think so....


It's easy to be all idealistic about it, but once you really analyze it, are we really so bad off now? I don't think so. Most of the evils of society you mentioned, are personal choices (i.e. smoking, killing with guns, etc.). As some mentioned, just because the technology is different, it wouldn't keep one from spearing another, or bundling up some leaves and lighting them on fire to smoke them (if he didn't mind waiting for the next thunderstorm or brush fire, for the fire source). Sorry, but I'm more of a fan, than a foe of technology....

*sits back in his chair with the fan going, listening to an Enya cd, and sipping an ice cold diet mt. dew....and is thankful for the tech that provides it....*



posted on Jul, 1 2003 @ 11:17 AM
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Dittos on the Diet Dew!! Having one right now myself!



posted on Jul, 1 2003 @ 12:41 PM
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Don't forget the Bing Bang hypothesis
Should have had a harpoon drove through its heart the day they had to introduce "dark matter" to get it back on track!

it's all a bunch of happy horse $h|t...

I agree with your words completely.



posted on Jul, 1 2003 @ 11:20 PM
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Gazrok..... At this moment I hate you. How in the name of bloody hell could you listen to enya? It drives me insane. As you put it, if you really analyze everything.... Well stupidity is fun. You dont analyze everything and you go on having fun. You all aren seeing it in the perspective of us not having anything but knowing of it. If we never knew about it then you wouldnt be complaining.

Pce


neo

posted on Jul, 2 2003 @ 01:30 PM
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And neo, were you saying that all faulty genes should be replaced? Were you saying that what I said was true about evolution? I confused myself again....


Yeah i rekon we sould replace all the faulty genes to stimulate the development of new genes seeing as we have lost natural selection and true evlolution.

Also i do think what you were describing is true evolution



posted on Jul, 2 2003 @ 01:38 PM
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Gazrok..... At this moment I hate you. How in the name of bloody hell could you listen to enya? It drives me insane.


Hehe...ahh, but you see, I am already quite insane, and thus, her music is very soothing....
Just for the record, I am happy, and without (imho) being stupid, likewise, I am not complaining....



posted on Jul, 2 2003 @ 06:56 PM
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I tried to prove that the Kabballah tree of life is geometrically incorrect and the moderators took it off the site. Can you say government moderators.



posted on Jul, 2 2003 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by groingrinder
From Lorena "I think that this world wasn't meant to know all the answers. I think we were supposed to make up legends n' stuff like our ancestors did b4 us. "

I don't believe our ancestors made up legends, but reported things they saw and experienced based on their limited understanding of the world.


They looked for an answer with what they knew. Most of the time they had to make something up, if they couldnt explain it but they wanted an answer they used the most obvious explaination... some sort of god.



posted on Jul, 2 2003 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by billybob
science was once know as philosophy and incorporated science and religion into a single discipline.
it is called phi-losophy because of the unique and well known golden mean, or phi ratio. the fractals of life are based on the phi ratioo. the fibonacci sequence approximates the golden mean as the numbers get larger.
the fibonnaci sequence is derived by adding the two previous numbers to get the next one. like 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 33, 54, ....etc. a pine cone, a nautilus shell, a conch shell, your fingers to your arms, et al, all follow this ratio.
the higher this sequence goes, the closer the ratio between adjacent numbers is to the golden mean ratio, which is 1.618....
if you look into this stuff, you should be amazed at what you'll find. it is one of the big secrets of life.
i wonder why they don't teach it in school?
key words for a search..."golden mean", "phi ratio", "sacred geometry".


While a lovely idea, philosophy is actually rooted from the word philosophos (gr) from philos (loving) and sophos (wise).



posted on Jul, 2 2003 @ 09:23 PM
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Now on topic...

Science is the how.

Religion is the why.

That is not my "philosophy", that is the universal truth.

Science can answer ANY question you ask of it, but the noblest question, WHY?

Why does the water flow down hill, and not up? Because of Gravity. Why does gravity EXIST?

Why do we think? Why is there anything?

The answer to why is but one thing, purpose. And Science does not give us purpose of existing. Just purpose of living!

Those are two different things when you think about it enough.

Without science we'd be doing nothing, and that's not in our nature.

So it is my belief, that Science, is not our search for answers.

But our search for God.



posted on Jul, 3 2003 @ 08:48 AM
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Unless my knowledge of science is obscured...

Water flows down because of gravity. Why? Because the size of Earth pulls it in. Eventually if you answer all the possible whys you will have philosophy or religion. But science can answer why some things work. But the ultimate why is unanswerable by science.





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