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Jesus said; Your faith has saved you

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posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 05:03 PM
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“And he said to the woman; your faith has saved you; go in peace” (Luke ch7 v50).

What is the meaning of “your faith has saved you”?
The same phrase turns up in other stories in the gospels.
It gets disguised in the translation “has made you well”, because the healing of malady is one of the ways in which faith may “save”.
As when Jesus met the ten lepers, who asked him to have mercy on them.
He told them to show themselves to a priest.
To the one who recognised that he was healed already, and came back to praise God, he said “Rise and go your way; your faith has made you well” (Luke ch17 v19).
To the blind man who made the same appeal on the outskirts of Jericho, he said “Receive your sight; you faith has made you well” (Luke ch18 v42).
And again to the woman who had a haemorrhage, who touched him in the middle of the crowd;
“Your faith has made you well; go in peace, and be healed of your disease” (Mark ch5 v34).
In each case, the wording is HE PISTIS SOU SESOKEN SE- your faith has saved you.

But the healing power of faith doesn’t just work on physical ailments.
We see that in the story of the paralytic man who was lowered through the roof of the house where Jesus was teaching (Matthew ch9 vv1-6).
In this case, the faith of the people who brought the man was enough.
Jesus saw their faith and was ready to heal the man.
But he began with the words “Your sins are forgiven”.
The implication is that unforgiven sin was the malady at the root of the paralysis.
The man needed to be saved from one, before he could be saved from the other.

This brings us back to the woman in that first quotation.
She was “ a woman of the city, who was a sinner”.
Her need was, or had been, not physical healing, but forgiveness.

Luke tells us that Jesus had been invited to share a meal at the house of a Pharisee (ch7 vv36-50).
The woman came in, weeping, with a flask of ointment.
Her tears wet his feet, she wiped them with her hair, and then she anointed them with the ointment.
(I assume that the anointing was the intended act. Having to wipe them first was the accidental effect of the weeping.)
The Pharisee looked on, superciliously, making a mental observation based on the assumption that she was a sinner.
Jesus noticed that thought, and set about putting him right.

He began with a little parable and a question.
The Pharisee willingly admitted that a man who had been forgiven a very large debt would be more grateful to his creditor, would feel more love, than a man who had been forgiven a smaller debt.
Then Jesus applied the moral, by comparing the way the two people had been treating him.
The Pharisee had not given Jesus the standard affectionate greeting, he had not extended the usual courtesy of allowing the guest to wash his feet.
Jesus contrasted that with what the woman had been doing.
Her conduct was a symptom of intense love, her love was a measure of her immense gratitude, and her gratitude showed the scale of the sin which had been forgiven.
(If the Pharisee was grateful that his sins had been forgiven, he must have thought they were small ones.)

The usual translations of his conclusion can be a little misleading;
“Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much” (v47).
This seems to imply that “she loved much” is explaining why “her sins are forgiven”.
In fact “for she loved much” is really following on from and explaining the observation “her sins are many”, as shown by the contrasting words which follow; “he who has been forgiven little, loves little”.
If the scope of her forgiven sin had been smaller, then her love would have been small as well, and the effects would have been less obvious.
That was the point of his remarks, from the beginning; her loving conduct was the outcome and the measure of her forgiveness, not its cause.

The implication is that she was fully conscious, when she came into the room, that her sins had been forgiven.
Her tears were not tears of repentance, or not just repentance.
They were tears of gratitude.

“And he said to her; Your sins are forgiven” (v48).
Again, this is a little misleading, because he’s describing a completed act; “Your sins have been forgiven”.
The message is not “I am now forgiving your sins, as a reward for what you have just done”.
The message is “Your sins were forgiven before you arrived here, and your loving treatment of me shows that you knew that already.
I now confirm the fact, if only for the benefit of those who are listening”.

“Your faith has saved you; go in peace”.

“Your faith”;
Her assurance that her sins had been forgiven would have come from the teaching of Jesus (“Repent and believe in the gospel”).
Therefore it would have rested upon her faith in the authority of Jesus to speak as the emissary of God.
That is how her faith saved her.

“Has saved you”;
Her sin and her consciousness of sin, between them, had been an obstacle in her relationship with God.
The forgiveness of her sin had removed that obstacle.
That was how her faith had saved her.

“Go in peace”;
This is not just about leaving the house without being molested.
He means that she is entering into a new life of “Peace”.
The true peace, to wit, which consists of an unhindered, right relationship with God.

So that is the gospel message of the New Testament, summed up in a single story.
By our faith in Christ, as coming from God, we are saved from our sin, through the knowledge that our sin has been forgiven, and we may thereby enter into a new and unhindered relationship with our God.










edit on 1-4-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 05:26 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

1st John 4:19 18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. 19We love, because He first loved us. 20If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.… There is a lot to be understood in God forgiving us our sins . Great post D as usual .



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1
Yes indeed. The promise of forgiveness takes away the fear. No wonder she was filled with a sense of gratitude.



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 05:47 PM
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You make an interesting point, however;

it sort of implies that a person who has committed only a little sin, and thus only 'needs' a little forgiveness, can only love God a little...

...which is to say that in order to more greatly love God, one needs to sin more greatly.

And I don't think that's what you're saying, just that the way the OP is worded implies it.

edit on 1-4-2016 by lostgirl because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 05:54 PM
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originally posted by: lostgirl
it sort of implies that a person who has committed only a little sin, and thus only 'needs' a little forgiveness, can only love God a little......which is to say that in order to more greatly love God, one needs to sin more greatly.

No, Jesus is not saying that it has to work like that. He's just making a psychological obervation about how it was working in this particular case.
I think he was being kind to the Pharisee, and the real contrast was between someone conscious of any forgiveness, and feeling grateful, and someone so thick-skinned that he did not even realise that he needed forgiving, feeling no love at all.


edit on 1-4-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 06:06 PM
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Daniel has a interesting prayer "" I, Daniel, understood from the Scriptures, according to the word of the Lord given to Jeremiah the prophet, that the desolation of Jerusalem would last seventy years. 3 So I turned to the Lord God and pleaded with him in prayer and petition, in fasting, and in sackcloth and ashes.

4 I prayed to the Lord my God and confessed:

“Lord, the great and awesome God, who keeps his covenant of love with those who love him and keep his commandments, 5 we have sinned and done wrong. We have been wicked and have rebelled; we have turned away from your commands and laws. 6 We have not listened to your servants the prophets, who spoke in your name to our kings, our princes and our ancestors, and to all the people of the land.

7 “Lord, you are righteous, but this day we are covered with shame—the people of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, both near and far, in all the countries where you have scattered us because of our unfaithfulness to you. 8 We and our kings, our princes and our ancestors are covered with shame, Lord, because we have sinned against you. 9 The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him; 10 we have not obeyed the Lord our God or kept the laws he gave us through his servants the prophets. 11 All Israel has transgressed your law and turned away, refusing to obey you. [ ] 17 “Now, our God, hear the prayers and petitions of your servant. For your sake, Lord, look with favor on your desolate sanctuary. 18 Give ear, our God, and hear; open your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears your Name. We do not make requests of you because we are righteous, but because of your great mercy. 19 Lord, listen! Lord, forgive! Lord, hear and act! For your sake, my God, do not delay, because your city and your people bear your Name.”



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 06:15 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1
There's a deep consciousness of sin there- which shows how close to God Daniel must have been. Getting very close to God seems to have that effect (according to report).



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 07:07 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI


So that is the gospel message of the New Testament, summed up in a single story.
By our faith in Christ, as coming from God, we are saved from our sin, through the knowledge that our sin has been forgiven, and we may thereby enter into a new and unhindered relationship with our God.

Thats what passes for repentance nowadays but hardly measures up to a being 'cleansed' or infused with the spirit.

Its not a simple matter of believing and you are forgiven. People do that all the time in church for one hour, on Sunday. The rest of the week they use that weekly forgiveness as an excuse or justification for what else they do.

On judgement day we will know who is forgiven or not by the weight of our actions and what we have done to stop bad behavior and make reparations where possible.

Did you even say you're sorry to the person(s) you wronged?



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 07:17 PM
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a reply to: intrptr
Yes, this is just about the beginning of the relationship.
Elsewhere (e.g. in The Spirit and the flesh) I look at the on-going aspect of the relationship.
I like to look at one piece of the jigsaw at a time.
But this episode draws attention to a very important issue, that in this teaching, as everywhere else in the New Testament, faith is the starting-point of the new relationship with God.
Faith and obedience are both needed, but faith comes first in order of time.



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 08:30 PM
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a reply to: intrptr
I know what you are saying , but would that be true faith ?


People do that all the time in church for one hour, on Sunday. The rest of the week they use that weekly forgiveness as an excuse or justification for what else they do.

If it was true faith , a person would not feel the need to sin.



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 09:09 PM
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a reply to: lostgirl

No, being forgiven, no matter how great or little you think your burden of sin to be, is the greatest gift you can receive spiritually and it lifts the greatest burden.

Even the smallest sin separates us from God if we are not forgiven, and that separation is the greatest spiritual burden (debt).

Having that debt forgiven is what engenders the reaction Jesus describes.



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 09:17 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

I literally just read this story in Luke, eerie.

The Pharisees name was Simon and he was saved, in this instance, for his wisdom and faith. Even though Yeshua never says Simon is saved he answers the question correctly, so I just assume. Pistis Sophia is faith wisdom in Greek and the foundational concept of Gnosticism. The Pharisees were another form of early Gnostic having been taught by the Parsi Magian Mazdayaznias and were known for their wisdom. And Yeshua only had a problem with a few Pharisees, not all of them. They were descendants of people who had warm feelings towards the Persians with them being liberators and assisting in rebuilding the Temple.

So in this instance it was faith, but wisdom faith that saved Simon.

As for the girl "Your sins are forgiven." Sounds more like an onthe spot, here and now pardon. Like when a judge says "you are released." It doesn't mean you were released just replace released with forgiven and it's clear it was on the spot not a recap of an earlier pardon.



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 11:33 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

S&F

As always another great thread from DISRAELI



posted on Apr, 2 2016 @ 04:30 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

I think it's a symptom of our fast food generation
Go to church and be forgiven, get it out of the way and live your life content
In fact let's add to that God loves you so much He wants you to rub His big fat golden belly and not only wil He forgive you, He will make sure you get lots of money and a bmw with a successful buisness to boot.
If you fail it's because you are at fault

The average christian has absolutely no idea what forgiveness of sin means to themselves personally or to others
Jesus said he came for the sick, most christians don't think they have any symptoms of an illness never mind sickness

Pray that you are accounted worthy, believe you are far sicker than your symptoms, accept you don't deserve Christ, understand beyond reason He loves you
Your faith will then make you well enough to stand before God

Those people in the op knew they were undeserving of Jesus forgiveness, we need to learn the same, then we will understand its value



posted on Apr, 2 2016 @ 04:49 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman
I think the key to this episode is that the woman was conscious of her need for forgiveness. it wasn't just a word, as it might be for some of the people you're describing. From this awareness comes awareness of the need for the repentance to be genuine.
But even doing God's will begins with faith.



posted on Apr, 2 2016 @ 04:50 AM
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Faith is knowing all is well. Non faith is believing that it could or should be different. How can there be peace if one is not content with what is?
'What is' is. 'What isn't' isn't.



posted on Apr, 2 2016 @ 04:51 AM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain
My way of puttng it is that Biblical faith is trust.



posted on Apr, 2 2016 @ 04:56 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Raggedyman
I think the key to this episode is that the woman was conscious of her need for forgiveness. it wasn't just a word, as it might be for some of the people you're describing. From this awareness comes awareness of the need for the repentance to be genuine.
But even doing God's will begins with faith.


If the woman believes she needs forgiveness it means she has condemned herself - she sees herself as bad. There is nothing bad and there is nothing good - there is only ever what is happening.
What is right or wrong with right now?

Is anyone doing now? Or is what is happening just happening and then words arise to judge and claim?



posted on Apr, 2 2016 @ 05:06 AM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain
This episode can only be understood in terms of Biblical faith.
It involves a relationship between God and the woman, who are distinct from each other.
"Sin" is the fact that domething has gone wrong with the relationship, and "forgivness" is about sorting it out.

Your personal monist philosopy has no place or value in discussing Biblical matters.
I'm not interested.



edit on 2-4-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2016 @ 05:15 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
It involves a relationship between God and the woman, who are distinct from each other.
"Sin" is the fact that domething has gone wrong with the relationship, and "forgivness" is about sorting it out.

The 'sin' is believing there is a god separate to you. Trying to have a relationship with something will reinforce the seeming divide.
There is only God but the words that arise say there is a 'you' and there is a 'god' to have a relationship with.

The trouble is that there is a belief in 'you' being something separate from life. There is only life and it is ever present. The mind (words) just tells stories about things that aren't.
edit on 2-4-2016 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)




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