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2 things I hate. Refitting bathrooms and "mates rates"!

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posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 03:04 PM
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This is my own fault I will admit. refitting bathrooms in older properties is always a nightmare and offering "mates rates" to neighbours is also a bad idea. I know this but I am a nice guy and always looking to help a fellow out so when a neighbour asked if I could help him put in a new bathroom suite and he would pay me I said yes.

I wanted to say no as I know what happens here but he's a good guy, wife is lovely and they have kids ect. So I offered to "help" and knew that I was doing them a favour as labour and experience is not cheap these days. Over a weekend and a Monday to finish off and a few beers....


It turns out that my friend is not as hands on as he thinks, and his wife is at work so he has 2 young kids to look after....

And that it is not just refitting a bathroom because they went to buy the new cheap bathroom and they had tiles on sale.

Then they thought it would be nice to fully tile the bathroom walls, Oh and the floors, oh and also picked up a bargain with some reduced mosaic tile strips that they want in 3 vertical lines around the bathroom.

But they are keeping the taps which means I had to spend an hour trying to clean them up so they do not look crap with all the nice new shiny stuff.

At the end of day one I think they were expecting it to be nearly finished and this is not a slight on them they are lovely people but they looked so disappointed that after 10 hours of work at half pay we had some of the tiles on one wall. He understood more after preparing the walls, working out the cuts and markers, fitting batons to tile on and find centres, fixing and adapting most of the plumbing and dealing with multiple vertical mosaic tile borders but she just seemed a little upset.

I told them that the key is in the preparation but I know have another monster day ahead of me to get back on track because what started out as a simple job that could have been a day and a half has turned into a 4 day epic job for about 2 days pay.

My own fault as I knew this would happen.

It always does.

The worst thing is I will do this again and again. I think I need to turn up my screw you valve a few notches.




posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 03:17 PM
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Ha ha ha ha ha.

You've been well and truly had. I've been there, most of us charitable types have.

You will do it again, we all do it again.



You're a good man.



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 03:23 PM
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Most important thing is did you get a cup to tea?



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 03:29 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Right with you

As a professional high class cabinet maker I'm often asked to produce works of art "In my tea breaks and lunch" for mates rates, I used to find it really hard to refuse, but time and bitter experience has taught me this.

"Mates rate 50%, OK If I made this at work (EG my PC desk,) you'd have to pay me around £2300, so at mates rates £1150, yeah I can do that.

People soon realise that mates rates for my work is still way out of their price range.

Don't get me wrong, if I can help a friend out I'll bend over backwards to do so, but if you want me to give up the only breaks I get in a day, to do what I get paid to do professionally,and organise the timber, order the lacquers, etc. etc. etc. all in my 'free time' ( which is usually spent pawing over drawings)

You get the picture

Family of course is another matter altogether

Cody



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 03:44 PM
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originally posted by: cody599
a reply to: nonspecific

Right with you

As a professional high class cabinet maker I'm often asked to produce works of art "In my tea breaks and lunch" for mates rates, I used to find it really hard to refuse, but time and bitter experience has taught me this.

"Mates rate 50%, OK If I made this at work (EG my PC desk,) you'd have to pay me around £2300, so at mates rates £1150, yeah I can do that.

People soon realise that mates rates for my work is still way out of their price range.

Don't get me wrong, if I can help a friend out I'll bend over backwards to do so, but if you want me to give up the only breaks I get in a day, to do what I get paid to do professionally,and organise the timber, order the lacquers, etc. etc. etc. all in my 'free time' ( which is usually spent pawing over drawings)

You get the picture

Family of course is another matter altogether

Cody


I always have time to help someone in need. I suppose the rant is more about my issues with "helping" and "doing"

I thought that £70 a day to help a guy out who works hard and has kids was a fair deal over the weekend, he is my next door neighbour.

The thing is that I must have spent about 10 hours walking him through things and then the job gets really quite complex and that is fine because they do not understand what is going on only that they want a really nice bathroom.

I want that for them also but there is a difference between "helping" and about £1200 worth of plumbing, bathroom fitting, tiling, carpentry ect, and a weekend of 10 hour days for £200 plus a whole monday painting and grouting and making good.

I am a moron.

And willmost likey continue to be one as long as people need help.



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 03:48 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

You are a good neighbor. However, you will have to think up favors they can do for you. Like mow the lawn, clean the gutters. Assist you in building a deck or something. You will have to make clear that you did not get as much help as expected and are out a lot of time.



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 03:49 PM
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originally posted by: EnigmaAgent
Most important thing is did you get a cup to tea?


And a sherry? (Sorry, binge watching Upstairs, Downstairs).



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Most things come easy after years of practice and training create experience. A craftsman has made more mistakes than the beginner and the beginners don't get it etc

To a lot of bystanders, everything looks easy. All these home improvement shows and DIY YT vids have jump-cuts and make it all look like a day's work lol.


Building equivalent of back-seat driving.



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 04:03 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Sorry mate

I'm busy crunching personal financial here, but £70 a day ? That's not mates rates, that's prostitution.

OK it's too late to renege on a deal, a man of honour never does.

Respect

Cody



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 04:13 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Been there, done that.

The trick is to find something THEY can do for YOU on mates rates and get them to commit BEFORE you finish their job.

They wouldn't want to say no and have you leave them with a half finished bathroom would they?

What comes around goes around.

ps...I bet this takes much longer than you think in the end with all the grouting, snagging, possible leaks etc.

Good luck.



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 04:31 PM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: nonspecific

Most things come easy after years of practice and training create experience. A craftsman has made more mistakes than the beginner and the beginners don't get it etc

To a lot of bystanders, everything looks easy. All these home improvement shows and DIY YT vids have jump-cuts and make it all look like a day's work lol.


Building equivalent of back-seat driving.

I always do the same thing and assume that most people have a basic understanding of stuff and with an explanation and some encouragement will be able to crack on with it.

My "mates rates" was supposed to be a "I will guide you and show you some tricks, give you advice and then the next time you will have half the skills to do it and if you need me then ring me" kind of thing."

As ever it turns out that I will end up doing everything for sod all.

At least I sleep well at night though.











posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 04:36 PM
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originally posted by: nerbot
a reply to: nonspecific

Been there, done that.

The trick is to find something THEY can do for YOU on mates rates and get them to commit BEFORE you finish their job.

They wouldn't want to say no and have you leave them with a half finished bathroom would they?

What comes around goes around.

ps...I bet this takes much longer than you think in the end with all the grouting, snagging, possible leaks etc.

Good luck.



I know exactly how long it will take, the difference is they do not.

People often base the cost of something on their budget and hope that it will match. Never happens.

I am getting old now and simply tell people it will take as long as it takes and the budget is dependant on variables.

Even with mates rates.



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 04:41 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

You mugged yourself mate.
I love 'mates rates' or AKA barter. HMRC knows # all about it and it contributes towards real community cohesion.
Different mates have different rates in my world, and different means of payment, depending on how they make their own money, and if their product or service can be traded fairly with mine then it's all good good.

...you mugged yourself.



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: cody599
a reply to: nonspecific

Sorry mate

I'm busy crunching personal financial here, but £70 a day ? That's not mates rates, that's prostitution.

OK it's too late to renege on a deal, a man of honour never does.

Respect

Cody


I am pretty poor and he is a nice guy with a family so £70 a day is my way of helping a fellow out.

As I said I hoped that he would take the bull by the horns and £250 off as opposed to 1200 from other trades would help him out and he could pass on the knowledge to others but it seems that he is not up for learning new skills. This is my rant. It seems he wants to allow me to do a proper job and not bother to find out how to do stuff for himself for the next time...



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 04:47 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

You mugged yourself mate.
I love 'mates rates' or AKA barter. HMRC knows # all about it and it contributes towards real community cohesion.
Different mates have different rates in my world, and different means of payment, depending on how they make their own money, and if their product or service can be traded fairly with mine then it's all good good.

...you mugged yourself.


I was kind of hoping that you were taking a day off when I posted this thread mate.

I fkin knew I was dumb but am a sucker for a friend in need with a wife and kids that needs to save money.


Every fkin time I do this and every time I end up tired, broken and drunk because I tried to help. Makes me feel like a right tit.

The worst thing is that I will do it again as I am soft as #. And also work harder to make them feel like I am not taking the piss and I just know that if they get a leak in a year and a half’s time they will be knocking on the door.

Retarded, That's what I am....



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 04:53 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
Retarded, That's what I am....

I disagree, I'd say you are just giving less consideration to your own personal needs, while considering the wants of others much more than you should to ensure you thrive yourself.
edit on 1.4.2016 by grainofsand because: clarity



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 05:11 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: nonspecific
Retarded, That's what I am....

I disagree, I'd say you are just giving less consideration to your own personal needs, while considering the wants of others much than you should to ensure you thrive yourself.


In a way i would agree but in another I would say no.

You can spend your whole life doing the right thing and end up with nothing but a happy heart and good "Karma"

I like to help but a lot of people are quite happy to ask for help but have little intention of returning the favour.

Fair weather friends and all, maybe I am just tired and grumpy but it really does piss me off sometimes.

It would be nice if you could do a job "mates rates" for a bloke that works for the council and he could sort you out with the council tax bill.

"Nod nod, wink wink! Don't worry mate febuary is on me...."

Never happens but if someone needs a bloke with an SDS drill and the ability to lay bricks all of a sudden we are all close as # and a six back of beer is supposed to be good enough...



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 05:14 PM
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originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
Ha ha ha ha ha.

You've been well and truly had. I've been there, most of us charitable types have.

You will do it again, we all do it again.



You're a good man.





Yes, I do it too and always kick myself for it.
I'm an electrician and recently rewired the entire inside of a small house so my friends 40 year old son would get out of his spare room.
I did the inside first so the other guys could remodel etc. The house has a 60 amp service from the 1960s and I brought the inside up to modern 100 amp standards with the understanding that I would install a new service afterwords.
Well now my friend's son is sleeping in a fire-trap because the service didn't get done. It keeps me up at night and it is beyond my comprehension that when I explain the problem, using words like fire, death, and prison, that I'm not taken seriously.
Urgh! Sorry, I didn't intend to derail your post.



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 05:20 PM
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originally posted by: JohnthePhilistine

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
Ha ha ha ha ha.

You've been well and truly had. I've been there, most of us charitable types have.

You will do it again, we all do it again.



You're a good man.





Yes, I do it too and always kick myself for it.
I'm an electrician and recently rewired the entire inside of a small house so my friends 40 year old son would get out of his spare room.
I did the inside first so the other guys could remodel etc. The house has a 60 amp service from the 1960s and I brought the inside up to modern 100 amp standards with the understanding that I would install a new service afterwords.
Well now my friend's son is sleeping in a fire-trap because the service didn't get done. It keeps me up at night and it is beyond my comprehension that when I explain the problem, using words like fire, death, and prison, that I'm not taken seriously.
Urgh! Sorry, I didn't intend to derail your post.


Not derailing at all Sir.

I hate the thought of something not done right due to the "customer" wanting to change things.


This is what I feel has annoyed me about this "mates rates" job. I have become the main man on the job yet all corners have been cut and I am now "in charge" yet without the ability to say or do anything about the quality of the job.

It boils my blood and I will find it hard to sleep for some time as it is what I do.



posted on Apr, 1 2016 @ 05:24 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
It would be nice if you could do a job "mates rates" for a bloke that works for the council and he could sort you out with the council tax bill.

I've seen much worse than that in central government in my previous career life lol.
That's small beans.

...you still mugged yourself though, no way I'd do a full bathroom refurb on that 10 hour day rate you stated.
Family and impressively trusted old-time close friends of course, but that's it.



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