I'm a 25 year old Pakistani Muslim male living in the USA.

a reply to: thothful


thanks for an informed reply And Welcome to the boards...

I was reading another article from a different site a few minutes ago

you might be interested in my 'comment' I made at the bottom of the page

...StUdio • a few seconds ago at ANP.COM COMMENTs ~~~allnewspipeline.com...

he is using Lawyer Speak to the distress of all Americans in the 50 States...Islamic Terrorist is incorrect.... the term is more correctly Jihadist or Islamic Jihadist...
Terrorist or Radical are words which are loaded from a western viewpoint.
'Jihad' to Muslims is the same league as the America cry 'Manifest Destiny'...
in which the Federal USA conquered and decimated the Native populations for 'the greater good'

have a good day

a reply to: St Udio

No problem thank you for the welcome.

a reply to: thothful

Welcome aboard. Just mind the Christian "forum-terrorist" who really despise your kind of people and religion! Good-day!

originally posted by: AllIsOne
a reply to: thothful

How many Muslim men beat their wives because the Quran/Allah say it's ok to do so?

Don't want to hijack OPs Thread --- but just wanted to clear two things out and help him a bit since he said he doesn't have a clear answer:

The verse where it says BEAT THEM (the women) ... has been translated wrongly for so long ... when in fact, it actually means KICK THEM OUT or DIVORCE THEM or CUT ALL TIES ...

The word used there ("idribuhune") comes from the root "daraba" - which can mean many things - but like all the other places in the Qur'an - the context helps you understand the correct meaning. Just as in the english language, where even the word "beat" doesn't always mean to "physically harm" - i.e. "beat it" means "go away" for example.

Since the Qur'an never actually uses the word "idribuhune" or "daraba" to mean physical harm in any other instance where it is used --- then why oh why would someone pick exactly that "meaning" in this verse only?

When read and understood correctly, the verse is saying that if your wife behaves indecently, you first admonish her, then if she continues, you refuse to sleep with her, and if she still continues as a last resort you are to divorce her -- to kick her out basically - because it is better to cut all ties with her then life a life where you will always have problems. That is basically the meaning of "idribuhune" - cut her loose, or cut all ties with her.



Second thing:

originally posted by: AllIsOne
Re homosexuality: it baffles me that Allah seems to be so concerned what consenting adults do behind closed doors.

He doesn't. What people do indoors is nobody's business.
So, let's say two people are gay. How would you know what they actually do unless you peak (stalk them) what is happening inside their home?

And watching what happens inside someone's home is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN in islam.

So, although sodomy is forbidden - it is not constricted only to homosexuality -- ALL sodomy is forbidden, that means also anal sex between husband and wife.

But if someone were to come and say: "Hey those two guys had anal sex - kill them!" --- then the guy saying this would actually be punished --- because he broke the privacy law - and the two guys would not be punished for sodomy.

What exactly are you trying to prove with this thread?

originally posted by: truthseeking
What exactly are you trying to prove with this thread?

Ahm ... it's an introduction thread?

a reply to: mekhanics


Thanks for the welcome mekhanics.

a reply to: sHuRuLuNi

Salaam

Thank you for providing that explanation sHuRuLuni!

a reply to: sHuRuLuNi

I call total BS on your Apologist explanations:

- So you're trying to say that women have the same standing as men according to the Quran?

- Why is Allah so concerned with sodomy, but pedophilia seems to be ok? Muhammad's marriage to a six-year-old and intercourse at 9 is not a problem???!!! Sorry, don't even try to justify this with cultural BS of that time. Any man who can have sex with a nine-year-old has a SERIOUS problem.

originally posted by: mekhanics
a reply to: thothful

Welcome aboard. Just mind the Christian "forum-terrorist" who really despise your kind of people and religion! Good-day!

You mean people that stand up for gender equality, support non-discrimination of homosexuals, and generally find it interesting that the religion of peace has been at war with itself ( Sunni/Shia) for centuries …?

Pakistani X
Mexican X
Elite X

a reply to: thothful

Hi Thothful,
I hope you are well. I am in the UK, where we have MANY MANY Muslims. And......I am a bit divided on their intentions.......confused even. I am new to this forum so I hope you'll forgive me asking........the questions that i would like answering, because i have NEVER heard any Muslim comment on them.

WHAT IS GOING ON in the Muslim world and Culture?? Do you talk of these atrocities amongst yourselves?? Do you EVER consider how ISIS makes YOU ALL LOOK?? Does it REALLY tell you in your Holy Book about being obliged to kill non-muslims?? About Islam ruling the world ?? About marriage to children?? Why do your Imams allow your Religion to be perverted by ISIS if their interpretation of the Quran is corrupt??
These questions are not intended to embarress you, or put you on the spot. I'm asking you because you invited the questions, and the Muslims in my country are SO unapproachable that political correctness deters approaching any for fear of Islamophobic allegations and arrest. Educate me please......as a Muslim. Because with all I see, hear, and read in the World about Islam.....I am VERY close to HATING your Religeon with all my being, despising ALL those who practice it, and yet still remaining Ignorant. Ignorant because I hear,see, and read NOTHING DIFFERENT to challenge that which fires my negative beliefs about Islam. I'm not looking for a fight, or a war of words. I'm a 51 year old looking for a bit more knowledge about your faith. Thanks for your time Thothful.😊

originally posted by: AllIsOne
a reply to: sHuRuLuNi

I call total BS on your Apologist explanations:

- So you're trying to say that women have the same standing as men according to the Quran?

- Why is Allah so concerned with sodomy, but pedophilia seems to be ok? Muhammad's marriage to a six-year-old and intercourse at 9 is not a problem???!!! Sorry, don't even try to justify this with cultural BS of that time. Any man who can have sex with a nine-year-old has a SERIOUS problem.

Where in the Qur'an did Allah say that pedophilia is OK? In fact, read the Qur'an and see what God says when it is OK to marry someone. Or, wait, I will tell you, since you seem to be too lazy to read it: It says that one can only marry a person that is physically AND mentally ripe - i.e. after the puberty.
Muhammad married Aisha when she was between 19 and 26 yrs old. No, I don't care what one hadith says somewhere --- I care about when I analyze multiple hadith and compare her age with that of her sister and events describing various stages in history - which then give you her real age. If a hadith says she was 6 or 9 years old, but the Qur'an tells you to only marry someone after the puberty and only if they are physically AND mentally ripe - then, as in EVERY OTHER INSTANCE - the Qur'an has precedence and such hadith is to be discarded.

Hi thothful,

welcome to ATS.


Nothing really to ask other than how was your day?

I hope it was well and wish you well on ATS.

a reply to: sHuRuLuNi

It really is amazing how people will take one Hadith as Gospel but completely neglect the others that discuss how Aisha actually felt about the Prophet(PBUH) and her marriage to him.
It is really kind of tragic, they do not realize that they have fell victim to that which they accuse us of: being taken in by some manipulator with a lot of vitriol and hate in their veins and letting that person control their minds to be the same way. It just takes one slanted article by one angry person to make people so unaware and full of hate. Absolutely tragic.

What they accuse the fundamentalist imams of doing is exactly the samething that the far right anti muslim media people do. They really are the same kind of animal.

I don't know if you have ever read "Prometheus Rising" by Robert Anton Wilson but the first chapter touches on this kind of mentality. To sum it up in one sentence he says, "What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves." It basically means that in our own minds we have a part that thinks a certain way and another part that will do everything it can to prove it even if what we think initially is wrong. The Prover will always come up with some narrative to fit the Thinkers tunnel vision.

a reply to: thothful

Hi there yaar (i hope u still know some urdu ) welcome to ATS . greetings from Iran

a reply to: InhaleExhale

Greetings InhaleExhale and thanks for welcoming me.

I just awoke right now. Sorry for the late reply. My day yesterday was pleasant. I was grateful because I don't have to work on Saturday or Sunday. I walked my dog and ate some food with friends. Then I went to the mall for a little but, didn't really see anything I wanted to buy. Well I did see a nice track jacket, but I didn't want to pay a $150 dollars for it lol. Then I came home and watched TV, a tennis match and a couple old movies.

Thanks for asking.

I hope your day is good today

a reply to: thothful

I hope your day is good today

Thank you,

Then I went to the mall for a little but, didn't really see anything I wanted to buy. Well I did see a nice track jacket, but I didn't want to pay a $150 dollars for it lol.

Better to save for a rainy day instead of spending it on things that you dont really need.

I walked my dog and ate some food with friends.

What breed of Dog?

I have a Rottweiler called Sonja, she is 7 years old and means the world to me.

Enjoying your time with family, pets and friend is what i imagine heaven might be like,

It was really nice reading your OP and replies, unlike some, I could sense a deep honesty in your words.


ATS has a very diverse membership, its a great reflection on the diversity of personalities we encounter in our everyday lives ,

Some will seemed troubled and full of hate or have been manipulated by negative forces trying to cause divide and blindly project the negativity here with what they post, others will do so clearly, but I guess everyone has their reasons.

Its been a pleasure and I will see you elsewhere amongst the many topics ATS has to offer

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: thothful

A question for you...What is the muslims' plan of salvation?

I know that you are probably a very busy person...I would appreciate
it very much if you could find time to answer my question.

a reply to: raymondshaw

Hello Raymondshaw, thank you for your sincere questions.

I will try my best to answer them.

I can tell you that we do talk amongst ourselves regarding the atrocities committed. I usually will go to the mosque after a terrorist attack and I can tell you that the imam will condemn the attacks. I think a lot of conversation amongst just the regular people is centered around disassociating oneself from this kind of thinking. I will also say there is a general air of being somewhat reticent to discuss such issues, from a fear of someone working for the government here and trying to goad us into saying something that can get us into trouble with the law. I have heard of it happening. It could be a bogey man story, or it could be true.
Muslims are well aware of Isis, and how it is making the Muslim world look. If you look up some of the popular imams on YouTube you can hear some of them condemn Isis. I think Nouman Ali Khan is one, and there is another popular one who does as well, ah yes Mufti Menk, trust me I know, every time I visit my mom and I am eating dinner she has him on full blast. I basically have to beg her to turn it off so we can eat only to the tune of our own conversation.

For your next question there is a post in responses to AllsOne earlier in this thread where I address that. Essentially it says not to harm anyone unless they are openly persecuting you, then we have the right to fight until they desist. The problem is you will see the verse quoted that says to kill but for some reason everyone omits the verses before and after that says only when persecuted and stop when they desist oppressing you. I quoted some verses there, I am new here and am not sure how to quote the previous post, and I am also writing from my phone at the moment which only compounds things. So please go a few pages back and look for that post.

I don't think our imams are letting Isis pervert our religion, as I said earlier many of them do condemn it, but their preaching hasn't been stopping Isis so I can understand why you believe that. I think it really is a problem of education and exposure. I believe Isis is a natural consequence of what has been going on there for the last 12 years. Iraq has been bombed to smithereens. Any semblance of a state there is largely defunct, maybe it is active in some parts but clearly not in all. And anyone who had survived this, imagine you are 12 when the war starts, pretty much your education stops there, now you are 25 with no work, I would say these types are ripe as easy pickings for radical fundamentalist recruiters. I am pretty sure your average joe over there doesn't really have access to other imams viewpoints in the west but only what the local recruiter imam is telling them. So I do believe other imams want to stop this perversion but they are doing a bad job of reaching them. I also believe the Isis problem is much deeper with a lot going on in the background. Some other nation state must be supporting them, even the Taliban needed the US to help it get on its feet. I suspect Isis initially received similar support from somewhere and even still must be. The question is who, part of me thinks Saudi Arabia but that is a guess only. Otherwise I fail to see why Russia didn't just eliminate them while they were carrying out there offensive in Syria recently.

I can say I understand how you feel and I am sincerely trying my best to empathize with you. I think honest and open dialogue is important to help us understand one another. The political correctness and fear of being called xenophobic and whatever else is unfortunate. You seem like a decent gentlemen who sincerely wants to know.

Also someday I would like to visit the UK, there is a rich history there and I am a fan of castles, I would like to see some someday.