Is the Quran a fabrication of the Catholic Church?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Any theory that says Jesus is the Word is actually an ancient philosophy extremely common in that time which has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus, or Joshua, and was created by Philo of Alexandria.

Some of the Quran is more true than the bible, almost every book from Luke is the opposite from the real correct Aramaic teachings. When Luke transliterated the Aramaic source gospel from John (not the John we have today) he deliberately falsified almost every passage to make it the exact opposite from what it was. That is why all of our modern gospels came to us from a Greek forged document. The Quran also says he was the True Prophet, this is the term Peter called him, and the name of a prophet is what he preferred according to John J. Collins. Well since the Aramaic scripture goes by the name True Prophet, it is very likely that is the name he preferred. So the Quran is not a true source for the answers of the new covenant, which is the true and correct religion brought about by Joshua and John the Baptizer, but in many cases it can be actually closer than the bible.

The bible is a good book because it refers to the prophets of ancient, and it points to the True Prophet of Mankind, however the NT was forged by Gentile pagans and the information relating to the True Prophet cannot be relied upon.

However the Quran has pieces of true information not included in the bible, it has even more pitiful lies.

Archeology has proved that islam is not an Abrahamic faith but a revival of pre-islamic paganism (the pagan rituals in Mecca). Take a look at all these evidences:
1. The Qur'an is filled with Contradictions
2. Abrogation & Cancellation in the Qurann
3. Allah did not have any common sense
4. Allah does not know the past, nor the future
5. the Qur'an is not based on facts, but stolen distorted beliefs from Judaism and Christianity, mixed with the Mohammedan idolatry and illiterate imagination.
6. The morals of the Qur'an Author
7. Mohammed peddled Allah's word for sex and wealth
8. Mohammed spread Allah's word by sword and fear
9. Mohammed encouraged Falsehood
10. The Qur'an Permits Breaking Oaths
11. The burned Qur'ans
12. Qur'an verses eaten by Aisha's Goat
13. The Qur'an is filled with Hate Speech
14. Qur'an contradicts Science
15. Sin is Righteousness in the Qur'an

Conclusion. Both books were written by wicked men of sin who had absolutely not one care for the benefit of mankind, but had in mind the control and domination of the human species through disinformation and sinful deceit. I was a believer, raised a catholic. However the true Prophet led me into his Great Truth and from the Aramaic sources, his teaching was the most beautiful thing the world has ever seen, and understandibly, that the Gentiles were a horrible blood thirsty sinful race of men, they omitted it from our world history so that they can have more control over the people of earth, rather than the ultimate purpose, which was to free the people of earth.

a reply to: UFOdanger

Way off topic -- you haven't told us your ideas concerning the origin of the Qur'an -- but fascinating.

the name of a prophet is what he preferred according to John J. Collins

John J. Collins seems to be a serious Biblical scholar, though specializing in the Old Testament and Hebrew sources. Not much about Jesus in his work I would imagine. Got a reference for this?

I don't think Islam has any connection to the Catholic church. They do have similarities though, by adhering to previous pagan traditions. Catholicism adopted Roman mythology, whereas Islam adopted previous pagan customs as well. Circling the Ka'bah predates Islam.

An example of writings that predate Islam:

www.msn.com...

a reply to: kisin

THAT predates America pal...JUST ask the Templars...

a reply to: TheChrome

Not sure if it antedates Islam, technically; it seems to be roughly contemporary with Muhammad. But it is older than the supposed compilation of the Qur'an from collected sources after the Prophet's death.

This is a document both exciting and ambiguous. It doesn't discredit the Muslim story of the origins of the faith. It does, however, show that some Arab speakers, at least, were educated and cultured even in the seventh century -- contrary to the way they are portrayed in the holy book.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

ATSers are so convinced there's a conspiracy everywhere, even when there is none. I could try and convince anyone on here, and yet get told I'm wrong because yada yada yada.

There is absolutely no link to Catholicism and the Quran. If you'd like, you can read up on it here. It's a great argument and probably a better one that I could verbalize. But I'm sure somebody here will deny it because they yearn for a truth that "tickles their ears."

I can't convince anyone of something they refuse to believe. Sometimes the truth is way simpler than an imagined conspiracy; anticlimactic even.

So, in short, sorry for lack of an argument in my original response.

originally posted by: IsidoreOfSeville
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

ATSers are so convinced there's a conspiracy everywhere, even when there is none. I could try and convince anyone on here, and yet get told I'm wrong because yada yada yada.

There is absolutely no link to Catholicism and the Quran. If you'd like, you can read up on it here. It's a great argument and probably a better one that I could verbalize. But I'm sure somebody here will deny it because they yearn for a truth that "tickles their ears."

I can't convince anyone of something they refuse to believe. Sometimes the truth is way simpler than an imagined conspiracy; anticlimactic even.

So, in short, sorry for lack of an argument in my original response.

To be honest, as the thread has progressed, I am currently of the opinion that Catholicism DID NOT create Islam. So on that point I agree with you. I just prefer that you state a reason for your position, as you have just done.

My current position is that both Islam and Catholicism incorporate elements of the Ba'al Mysteries, but I don't think that was a coordinated effort by any specific member of either Islam or Catholicism, rather I think its a sign of demonism.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: TheChrome

Not sure if it antedates Islam, technically; it seems to be roughly contemporary with Muhammad. But it is older than the supposed compilation of the Qur'an from collected sources after the Prophet's death.

This is a document both exciting and ambiguous. It doesn't discredit the Muslim story of the origins of the faith. It does, however, show that some Arab speakers, at least, were educated and cultured even in the seventh century -- contrary to the way they are portrayed in the holy book.

My point was that there are traditions adopted by Islam that predate Islam, such as circling the Ka'bah. This tradition is very similar to the circling of the Stupa by Buddhists. A good read is:

The Great Arab Conquests-John Bagot Glubb

a reply to: TheChrome

My point was that there are traditions adopted by Islam that predate Islam, such as circling the Ka'bah

Well, of course there are. Islamic tradition accepts this without demur. It's in the Qur'an, even.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I have a question. If the Quran is a Catholic fabrication then so could be the New Testament.

So you seem like you are just Muslim bashing and while you are at it Catholic bashing as well.

Who do you think is responsible for the New Testament? It's the same people you think are capable of fabrication of scripture.

Doesn't do much to validate your own religion by calling the assemblers of the New Testament dishonest. You want Islam to be a fabrication without its predecessor being one. If theywere ccreated by the same organization then they are both fabrications.

It's more likely that the Quran was written using the mythology of the Bible without the help of the Catholic church. Arabs are sons of Ishmael and have a cultural bond to Abraham. They don't believe Jesus is God and the Catholic church does. No trinity in Islam and maybe Catholicism was influential to Islam in the same way Judaism was to Christianity.

Was Christianity a fabrication of the Israelites?

Only God knows.

a reply to: AmenTelestai

Back so soon?

If the Catholics fabricated the NT, then how do you account for the variants that exist between the Byzantine Majority manuscripts versus the older ones?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I have an equally valid question for you, was Christianity a fabrication of the Catholic church? Was Jesus really a Judean named Yeshua who according to Catholicism is a God or was he just a man who was mythologized by the Roman priests to attract pagans with the trinity and the god man that they were more familiar with, especially in Egypt and Rome followed suit.

The Nicene Creed literally made Jesus a God and the Holy Spirit another distinct God and made it a baptismal oath. Before that the Messiah was just called the Son of God and even Jesus denies being God in the Gospels.

So who fabricated the doctrine that Jesus was to be worshipped as God? Catholicism. Why? Because of the success it would lend in converting the polytheists and pagans .

What else has the Catholic Church fabricate? I mean fabricating God is bad and Jesus as anything beside the Messiah is blasphemy so I don't see that. I know for a time Islam was admired by Catholics because of the attention paid her in the Quran which is more than in the NT.

a reply to: SilentSage

You can find the answer to your questions by vetting my reply to your other fake account under Amen Telestai.