Is the Quran a fabrication of the Catholic Church?

a reply to: Akragon

Do you not see "roman catholisim" on that list?

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Akragon

Do you not see "roman catholisim" on that list?

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

not at all

What do you believe the difference is between the RCC on your graph, and what said church is today?

a reply to: Akragon

None of importance. The point is when the Roman Catholic Church was founded.

Look at the graph, which shows that it was founded in the eleventh century. Muhammad lived in the seventh century.

Hard to imagine the founders of Roman Catholicism had a time machine to take them back four hundred years.

a reply to: Akragon

Some reading matter for you: Great Schism.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Akragon

None. The point is when the Roman Catholic Church was founded.

Look at the graph, which shows that it was founded in the eleventh century. Muhammad lived in the seventh century.

Well perhaps according to your graph...

but in reality the "roman" church started with ROME... Thus the name...

Started because the roman emperor declared Christianity to be ROMAN...

Also the reason why many "roman" aspects stuck with the church... such as a trinity... And "son/sun" worship...

various rituals... Xmas... easter.. etc etc..

Some reading matter for you: Great Schism.

I know all about the schisms that happened... there was many...

a reply to: Akragon

It’s not ‘my’ graph, it’s from a history web site. Your ‘knowledge’ is the usual farrago on fact, fiction, propaganda and pure bloody nonsense most people mistake for history.

If you choose to, you could profit from this conversation to learn some real history. But I suspect you would rather stew in your own happy ignorance. Either way, it makes no difference to me. Nice talking to you.

a reply to: Astyanax

im Quite ok with my knowledge of the history of the Christian church(s)

The fact remains, there is no difference between the churches that seperated from the early roman church and the many we have today, aside from politics...

Perhaps you should read your own link...

the creeds remained... the traditions remained... the rituals remained...

the only thing that changed was the labels... and the first to establish all of these things was the early "roman" catholic (universal) church...

all of which happened centuries before "Islam"

originally posted by: Sargeras
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Doesn't Islam predate Catholicism?

ridiculous statement

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I have read the Koran, I'm Jewish btw, but it doesn't say Jesus is the creator and only that he SPOKE the word of God. Your video is probably propaganda. Jesus was as human as anyone in Islam and Jesus himself never claims to be God, Islam would not accept him as a prophet if he did. "Before Abraham was, I am, was just a cryptic taunt and not a claim to divinity. The resurrection is a Catholic invention. Not Islam, but if it was created by Catholics, they didn't control it.

a reply to: Ove38

ridiculous statement

Why? Because you have a coin of Constantine in your avatar?

a reply to: Astyanax

Catholic means universal, and the term goes back to the first council of Rome and the concept is much older.

Human Yeshua and the dying sun god Mithras were merged into the dying resurrected saviour who is born December 25 and the Sabbath was changed to SUNday, violating a commandment to appease the Mithra worshipper and make conversion easy... and pagan.

Since inception the church of the God man has been Catholic I.e. universal and a mixture of many traditions, religious traditions.

a reply to: Steinbergmanstein

Catholic means universal, and the term goes back to the first council of Rome and the concept is much older.

Yes, ‘Catholic’ does mean ‘universal’. However, it is also used as shorthand for Roman Catholic, and it is obviously in this sense that Sargeras was using it, since the OP refers very specifically to the Church of Rome. The two videos presented in the OP are titled ‘Shocking! Evidence “Vatican” Is Behind Writing “Quran”’ and ‘More Historic Proof Popes Created Islam!’ Pretty unambiguous, I reckon.

The ‘Holy Catholic and Apostolic’ Church, that is, the body of Christians who believe in the Apostolic Succession and subscribe to the Nicene Creed, pre-dates even the Council of Rome; it has existed since 325AD. I stated as much in my second post in this thread. But this is not the ‘Catholic Church‘ as referenced by the OP and Sargeras.

a reply to: Astyanax

Conceptually, Catholicism is as old as Paul who combined pagan beliefs with Jewish and Greek/Roman and caused a schism between him and the Apostles in the process.

So even before it was called Catholic it was becoming the universal church. It just got a boost from Constantine who ordered it be organized and certain Christian groups like the Gnostics were persecuted to the point of extinction.

The Catholic church could have had a hand in Islam and the Qur'an, you got Iblis as Lucifer, the virgin birth and many bible references.

Or Arabs who studied Christianity and found it polytheistic created the Qur'an and guided the prophet Muhammad from the background.

I can't see the Catholic church creating a doctrine without Jesus as the Son of God but I do know that early Catholic/Muslim relations were good because of mutual admiration for the virgin Miriam.

a reply to: Solarmania

Conceptually, Catholicism is as old as Paul...

Please see my earlier posts in the thread where this question is dealt with.

a reply to: Astyanax
You have already replied to that poster under his previous name (Steinbergmanstein).

a reply to: DISRAELI

You have already replied to that poster under his previous name (Steinbergmanstein).

Many thanks. I had no idea people could alter their (fake) identities on ATS.

a reply to: Astyanax
This one has been spending weeks getting banned and returning under a new guise, three or four times a week.
Those who can recognise him easily have taken to alerting each other whenever he takes up a new mask.
"Gnosisisfaith" is the new Bernie.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Thanks again. Posts a lot in the Religion forums? I rarely visit there, so perhaps that’s why I’ve missed the phenomenon.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

No, the Quran is not in any way, shape, or form a result of the Catholic Church.

originally posted by: IsidoreOfSeville
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

No, the Quran is not in any way, shape, or form a result of the Catholic Church.

Thanks. You have me convinced.